Spirit Juice Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 S tier: Japanese tier lists F tier: American tier lists
ZONG_one Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 S-Tier-it Juice. = Godlike. Scott-Soniti-Lockhart. = ...?
Dacidbro Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 "CS should fix CT" And in many, many ways, it did. If balance was easy, you wouldn't ever need a sequel or patch.
DC Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 Just sayin. I hope people aren't expecting the patch to come out and BB be completely balanced and perfect.
Spirit Juice Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 No fighting game will ever be perfectly balanced. If it were, it'd be boring.
Skye Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 No fighting game will ever be perfectly balanced. If it were, it'd be boring. I concur.
AlterGenesis Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 No fighting game will ever be perfectly balanced. If it were, it'd be boring. Not perfect, but without melty 5a/2a ...and without lol blind and Rach- I mean handicapped loli. AMIRITE
zeech Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 Shrug, you can say generalities like that, but I doubt anyone would argue against toning down the top 3 a little and buffing up the bottom 3 somewhat. I doubt many people would complain if that happened. Will it be perfectly balanced? Maybe not. But it will be closer to perfect.
Master Bigode Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 I personally prefer the buff the low tier and don't destroy the top tier kind of balancing.
Manta Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 I personally prefer the buff the low tier and don't destroy the top tier kind of balancing. This is power creep. Whilst I'm not arguing that everyone should have rachel's damage (And thus 50% of all rounds won on timeouts) it's generally easier to nerf the few moves that make a character strong than it is to buff up a weak character without overdoing it. again, Rachel is the exception here. Not sure what they were thinking when they used a nerfbat that big.
redsilversnake Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 S tier: Japanese tier lists F tier: American tier lists A Japanese tier list put Ragna on par with Bang and Litchi, and Tsubaki in B-tier. Clearly, Japanese tier lists top out at A. @Dialkia: Hazama's not A. He can zone pretty well and get decent damage (or great damage with heat), but his pressure is weak and he has limited options when on the defensive. Sure, Jayoku's a great reversal, but only if you IB or bait. Throw in his matchups, and he's solid B.
Ronove Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 he has limited options when on the defensive Sure, Jayoku's a great reversal, but only if you IB or bait. Throw in his matchups, and he's solid B. What the... "only if you IB" and why on earth won't you make use of IB? Considering how quickly Hazama gains meter I'd say he's got one of the best defensive options ever (if not the best defensive option of the whole game). If there's one thing you can't complain about it's his defense, because good players are aware of how easy is in this game to IB and link a reversal (and he's got the best reversal of the game) right after.
mundus Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 What the... "only if you IB" and why on earth won't you make use of IB? Considering how quickly Hazama gains meter I'd say he's got one of the best defensive options ever (if not the best defensive option of the whole game). If there's one thing you can't complain about it's his defense, because good players are aware of how easy is in this game to IB and link a reversal (and he's got the best reversal of the game) right after. Don't forget 720, it is also great after an IB. Smart players will do messed up block strings so that they are hard to IB or bait it and block. Its a good reversal nonetheless, but it can be played around.
Ronove Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Don't forget 720, it is also great after an IB. Smart players will do messed up block strings so that they are hard to IB or bait it and block. Its a good reversal nonetheless, but it can be played around. "Messed up block strings" are part of a character's mixup game depending on risk/reward factors. Generally speaking good players will simply try to vary their pressure while try to make it as safe as possible and at the same time as most rewarding as possible. There's high risk/high reward setups but those should always be treated as special cases that a player does when he has good yomi, and not as a standard thing to do to "avoid IB". Besides, IB is really not that hard to pull off and it's "risk" factor is stupidly low (unless you're mashing) compared to the reward that you get from it (which for characters like Hazama is pretty great). That's why I am baffled when I read that "Hazama has limited defensive options" "only if you IB". Like what the heck, maybe if you started IBing when you have the chance to do it then maybe you'd realize it ain't that bad at all for Hazama.
redsilversnake Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 and when was this? Back when Arcadia first put out a tier list for the game. What the... "only if you IB" and why on earth won't you make use of IB? Considering how quickly Hazama gains meter I'd say he's got one of the best defensive options ever (if not the best defensive option of the whole game). If there's one thing you can't complain about it's his defense, because good players are aware of how easy is in this game to IB and link a reversal (and he's got the best reversal of the game) right after. Not all of us are Zakiyama, you know. You're right that IBing isn't that hard, but it's not that easy against certain blockstrings and/or when you're online. Also, it's true that Hazama has fast meter gain, but that doesn't mean he can get 50 heat right away. And just so you know, Jayoku isn't the best reversal in the game. It costs meter, trades with various moves, and is beaten by throws. It's certainly one of the best in the game, but Inferno Divider, Tsubame Gaeshi, and Tager's 360 are better as reversals.
Seifuuku Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 tsubame isn't RCable on block, 360a is only invuln on frame 3 or something, and ID.. is good but has a weird hitbox and will whiff on some crouching attacks jin's 623d is probably the best if we're talking about reliability..
Afrikaan Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 The fact you're even bringing In player skill into the discussion of Tiers makes your opinion not worth a shit concerning the matter. Apparently you don't even know the definition of tiers and tier lists judging by how asine some of the statements you made are
Kristoph Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 No fighting game will ever be perfectly balanced. If it were, it'd be boring. do you have any idea how little sense this makes?
Afrikaan Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 do you have any idea how little sense this makes? SF1 is the most balanced game in existence. Wonder why no one plays it?
Kristoph Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 because it's terrible in many completely-unrelated-to-balance ways, afrikaan
Afrikaan Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 because it's terrible in many completely-unrelated-to-balance ways, afrikaan One of which being the characters ARE THE EXACT SAME. The game is perfectly balanced, per-se, but the only two playable characters are perfectly identical. That is the only way you're ever going to achieve perfect balance in a fighting game. As long as you have significant differences in characters, this is always going to be the case. Asking for perfect balance is just fucking stupid. Asking for a game where player skill is the greatest factor in determining who wins a match is what all developers should aim for. That, and actually making the game, y'know, actually enjoyable to play and not filled with lame mechanics
mundus Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 do you have any idea how little sense this makes? The only way a game can be perfectly balanced is if the whole cast plays exactly the same. Even VF has tiers and that is probably the most balanced fighting game series. 2D fighting games are also harder to balance that 3D fighting games. Anyway a game will never be 100% balanced tiers will always exist. Trying to get it close to balanced is what people should aim for, also keeping the game diverse (not 5 characters who plays the same like in other series who shall remain unnamed) and fun to play.
Ronove Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Not all of us are Zakiyama, you know. You're right that IBing isn't that hard, but it's not that easy against certain blockstrings Are you kidding me? Like, what are those "certain blockstrings" that are not easy to IB? 5AAAAAA? Besides, it's not like you have IB the whole freaking string in a lot of cases, y'know and/or when you're online. lol online... How on earth can you even base your reasoning on netplay when discussing about match-ups? Also, it's true that Hazama has fast meter gain, but that doesn't mean he can get 50 heat right away. And just so you know, Jayoku isn't the best reversal in the game. It costs meter, trades with various moves, and is beaten by throws. It's certainly one of the best in the game, but Inferno Divider, Tsubame Gaeshi, and Tager's 360 are better as reversals. Ok, you're either trolling me or you just don't have the slightest clue...
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