Felicia Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Tsubaki's damage is fine, and on par with the rest of the cast No. She can't go over 2k without meter, while Bang and Ragna pull at least 3k per combo with ease. Define meter. Is it Heat, or Installs? Also keep in mind that Bang and Ragna are top 3 characters in the game for a reason. Note that just because a character gets their damage up close does not necessarily mean they're rushdown-style characters True, but Tsubaki can't do any damage from long range, has moves with the purpose of getting closer to her opponent like 236D, and gets her damage most easily through mix ups, resets, and other forms of close up pressure. That sounds like rushdown to me. Would you define Litchi as rush down then? Keep in mind, also, that Ragna does not have the pressure game that Tsubaki does. Ragna has amazing pokes that will lead into pressure and mix up one way or another at a close enough range, and his mix ups are better than Tsubaki's. Then there's the amount of pressure tools he has at his disposal like 6D and 214D. He also rewards much more than Tsubaki with correct guesses since his combos are always 3-4k, with great heat gain and oki at the same time, without even any meter either. Even if you still believe Tsubaki's pressure is better, it's a fact that Ragna gets his damage easier, as well with more rewards. With Ragna and Tsubaki, their 5Bs are both similar, and very different. The differences between them, actually balance out when you consider both their strengths and weaknesses. And god forbid that a character needs to use their drive to deal big damage. Are you seriously saying that for a character like Tsubaki? She does less than 2k without charging, which is what her drive is used for. Without charging, she'd be worse than Rachel. If you're gonna use resets for more damage, her resets are limited since she has ONE overhead, and a pretty easy one to block at that. Even if you guess correctly, you still won't be doing much damage because again, no damage without meter. Tick throws are out of the question too with how easy they are to tech in this game. Sarcasm, my friend. Keep in mind that Ragna's and Bang's major combos, and damaging ones, both use their Drives. Tsubaki cannot be dishing 3-4k damage without touching her Drive, as it gives her an unfair advantage when it comes to dealing damage. Every character in the game has to use their drive to achieve the big damage, Tsubaki isn't immune to that. So complaining about Tsubaki's low damage output without Installs, is silly. Installs are a part of her game, and finding openings to start Installing is something that every Tsubaki player needs to learn; as well as getting around the shortcomings. It's not like any other character in Blazblue has to use their drive in any meaningful way to bring their damage up. This statement is just ignorant. Jin needs his drive to do combos that hurt, and it's useful for pokes, pressure, and much more. Tager needs his drive to do his combos as well, and magnetism is a huge part of his game. Rachel is even more garbage than she is now without her drive. I could go on with every character in the game, but you get the point. As I said above, sarcasm, my friend. =)
Keo-bas Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 I dare say I agree with felica post. Well I personally think majority of perspective on Tusbaki character concept is accurate but underrated. I feel the value towards damage is overrated and defining her play style.
kro_ Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Aaaahhh. What was Aksys thinking with the charging? It's pretty bad. After every 6cc into the standard air combo finisher, most Tsubaki players will try to charge at least 1 bar. However, doing this puts her in a position where she has no choice but to just drop down into the opponent's pressure because she's so high up and doesn't have any jumps left to change momentum. This is really bad especially against people with decent anti-air normals like Ragna. You can remedy this by not double jumping and ending the combo early, but then you're sacrificing guaranteed damage on an already low damage character just to avoid being put under pressure after replenishing the charge meter you just used up. Similar problems with ending ground combos too. Try to charge up any more than 1 bar after a 22c and you've got Ragna, Litchi, and Bang running at you ready to outprioritize you with their 5b's and 5a's
redsilversnake Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Define meter. Is it Heat, or Installs? Also keep in mind that Bang and Ragna are top 3 characters in the game for a reason. He means Install. I don't think there are many RC or DD combos with her. Would you define Litchi as rush down then? Not as much as Tsubaki or Ragna, but I'd say she qualifies somewhat. With Ragna and Tsubaki, their 5Bs are both similar, and very different. The differences between them, actually balance out when you consider both their strengths and weaknesses. The thing is, though, aside from 2C being a decent anti-air, 5B is Tsubaki's only good normal, whereas Ragna has 5B (which is a good poke), 6A (great anti-air and combo tool, and is even useful in blockstrings), and 2C (FC move that has + frames on block). So you're right, Ragna doesn't have the pressure game that Tsubaki does; he has a significantly better one. Sarcasm, my friend. Keep in mind that Ragna's and Bang's major combos, and damaging ones, both use their Drives. Tsubaki cannot be dishing 3-4k damage without touching her Drive, as it gives her an unfair advantage when it comes to dealing damage. Every character in the game has to use their drive to achieve the big damage, Tsubaki isn't immune to that. So complaining about Tsubaki's low damage output without Installs, is silly. Installs are a part of her game, and finding openings to start Installing is something that every Tsubaki player needs to learn; as well as getting around the shortcomings. Ragna and Bang use their Drives during their combos, though, whereas Tsubaki doesn't. It's not that people here dislike her Drive, it's that it leaves her at a massive disadvantage since she has a hard time getting charge.
Slayer Alucard Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Sarcasm, my friend. Keep in mind that Ragna's and Bang's major combos, and damaging ones, both use their Drives. Tsubaki cannot be dishing 3-4k damage without touching her Drive, as it gives her an unfair advantage when it comes to dealing damage. Every character in the game has to use their drive to achieve the big damage, Tsubaki isn't immune to that. So complaining about Tsubaki's low damage output without Installs, is silly. Installs are a part of her game, and finding openings to start Installing is something that every Tsubaki player needs to learn; as well as getting around the shortcomings. What the hell you trying to say? I just said that every character needs their drive for big damage and for their gameplan, and now you're basically agreeing with me, being sarcastic here doesn't even make sense. Would you define Litchi as rush down then? She definitely is capable of it. In the corner, she does nothing but rush down with mix ups after a Daisharin or Cigarman on knockdown. Her combos all bring you to the corner with great damage and massive heat gain too, which gives her constant oki with Daisharin from the heat gain, while rewarding greatly from guessing right since her combos are like 4-5k apiece. I don't care whether she's rushdown or not, but she's sure as hell better at it than Tsubaki. With Ragna and Tsubaki, their 5Bs are both similar, and very different. The differences between them, actually balance out when you consider both their strengths and weaknesses. Right. Ragna has a better 5B, and has barely any weaknesses, while Tsubaki's 5B is worse than his, and she has a bunch of weaknesses. That's totally balanced. Define meter. Is it Heat, or Installs? Also keep in mind that Bang and Ragna are top 3 characters in the game for a reason. Obviously I'm talking about her charge meter. And of course I know Bang and Ragna are in the top 3, which is why I'm saying Tsubaki is inferior to Ragna. So again, you're just telling me things I already know.
Slayer Alucard Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 I dare say I agree with felica post. Well I personally think majority of perspective on Tusbaki character concept is accurate but underrated. I feel the value towards damage is overrated and defining her play style. It's not just her low damage. She has weak oki, or none at all if she charges after a combo, and even charging doesn't bring up her damage output a whole lot. If she had amazing pressure options or fast/other charge methods, then it wouldn't matter as much how much damage she did. The problem is how important it is for her with her limited options.
Ginseng Posted July 25, 2010 Author Posted July 25, 2010 All I'm really going to say is you guys can find out what she's worth when console comes out, and when you guys play in tournaments.
AnguzBeef Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 All I'm really going to say is you guys can find out what she's worth when console comes out, and when you guys play in tournaments. Denial
Yggjrasil Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 Denial You have no idea how true this statement is. :3
Coopa Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 I wish all of you Tsubaki players luck, but if you want your hopes crushed, just play me on PSN. She's a very hard character to play.
Keres Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 I wish all of you Tsubaki players luck, but if you want your hopes crushed, just play me on PSN. She's a very hard character to play. Those are some fine words of encouragement.
Ginseng Posted July 26, 2010 Author Posted July 26, 2010 For the FAQ, do you guys want two sections? One for general questions such as story, etc. Other for actual gameplay/combos, etc. I'm also considering writing a detailed analysis for the matchups I have played for all the matchup threads, thoughts on this? I probably won't be able to do this on my own, so be sure to provide constructive information/criticism backed up with evidence (I don't want pure theory-crafting here). This probably won't be done this week, but it's something i would try to get by mid or late-august at least.
Slayer Alucard Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 Yea, would save more people from asking questions.
Ginseng Posted July 26, 2010 Author Posted July 26, 2010 Please send me PMs for any ideas regarding thread topics, what I should add to certain sections, what edits I should make, etc. When console comes out, it'll be a lot harder to find out what you guys want with all the possible clutter that can join us. EDIT: Added a few brief bullet points on vs Noel, Arakune, Taokaka, and Jin on the matchup threads, will probably do the rest in the near future.
Ginseng Posted July 26, 2010 Author Posted July 26, 2010 Added brief bullet points on all the matchup threads now, I'm wondering if I should just delete the Tsubaki mirror thread... Want me to just edit an announcement over and over if I do any minor/major updates to any of the forum's information?
Shaffler Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 I'm already laughing about the irony of having a mirror matchup thread even though all the info we need is right here. Wait, what happens on "that day"?
AppleJuice Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 You're talking about the announcement that has August 1st in the thread title, right? I'm gonna guess that nothing is going to happen, considering that the post said: I hope you guys are prepared. EDIT: Because you guys deserve it. EDIT2: Nah you guys don't deserve it anymore.
Sadeyo Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 Thank you for providing your psn and xbl usernames. I'm really hype for learning Tsubaki and hopefully you guys are too. I'll be doing spectator recordings after my training for most to all Tsubaki players. I'll upload them onto my youtube channel and you could post them here for critique or share your experience with everyone. You'll find me as xkurotsukix on psn and I'll have my xbl username active by the end of this week. My Ragna days are basically over. Still learning codes and such on this site. Trying to put my youtube channel in the text of my signature. pm me if you know how it's done.
Shaffler Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 So yeah, fellow Tsubaki mainers. Am I the only one here feeling so happy, as if he would get laid, because Tsubaki is hogging the disc art solo? Tell me I'm not the only one who's going to eject the disc just to look at it and then put it back into the console every time I boot up my PS3.
Keres Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 So yeah, fellow Tsubaki mainers. Am I the only one here feeling so happy, as if he would get laid, because Tsubaki is hogging the disc art solo? Tell me I'm not the only one who's going to eject the disc just to look at it and then put it back into the console every time I boot up my PS3. Too bad I'm getting the 360 version. Oh well. Anyhow, to keep this at least somewhat on topic, I'll be looking forward to playing some of you online. Thanks also to Ginseng for the (present and upcoming) enhancements to the stickies on this subforum!
blueyesdevil Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 yaay, tsubaki disc art :3 Sorry, I had to share my joy somewhere.
Ginseng Posted July 27, 2010 Author Posted July 27, 2010 You're talking about the announcement that has August 1st in the thread title, right? I'm gonna guess that nothing is going to happen, considering that the post said: I hope you guys are prepared. EDIT: Because you guys deserve it. EDIT2: Nah you guys don't deserve it anymore. Don't worry guys, I'll do something that day for sure.
Sadeyo Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 yaay, tsubaki disc art :3 Sorry, I had to share my joy somewhere. I was totally expecting Ragna or possibly Hazama on the disc. Tsubaki gets her time to shine. My old habit kicked in and I selected Ragna instead of Tsubaki. The next time I hop I'll give her shot to see if she's suitable for my very own style.
Jmyster Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 All hail the Tsubaki disc. I was pleasantly surprised as well. Until I learn her decently, I'll be sticking with Hakumen as my sole main, but I'll be hitting up training and sneaking some practice in player matches. Need a lot of practice with those high/jump cancels...pad is killing me here.
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