[CS1-CSE] Mu-12 Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

[TD]

nope. nothing. it only shines in or near the corner.

though low damage output midscreen may be a negative for it, think of the positives:

-it's SAFE (a safe overhead!!) if blocked, though you wont be guaranteed pressure. cancelling into sod also makes the string unsafe without rc.

-huge corner carry. a big goal with mu is to get the foe cornered, where her damage skyrockets, while maintaining resources.

-knocks the foe fullscreen so mu can set up her offense

-corner 6b can do up to 4.9k with super, and the combo is ridiculously easy and works on everyone.

-multi-hit properties mean with heat to rc, you have plenty of options for mixups in between the two hits, though damage will still be meh.

negatives are few but apparent, such as crap damage, it being her only mixup, and limited options after block without heat.

[Zeromus_X]

Just make sure to backdash/otherwise check to see if they'll try to reversal out if they IB. Of course, a lot of people who aren't familiar with Mu won't know that her overhead is -1 so on normal block you can sometimes get away with dash in 2A or what-not to continue pressure.

Also, both hits are special cancellable, so you can do tricks like 6B(1hit) > 236A, 6B(1hit) > 236D or 214D, etc.

But yeah. Even that little SoD hit sends them flying, where Mu can set up her gameplan and take control of the match, even if she hasn't taken half your life in one combo (yet).

[pochp]

adding to what they said,

midscreen I usually prefer frametraps, sticking to 2b and 3c as they both allow you to reset pressure (2b dash 2a/2b, 3c tk.236a/ 3c 7jc j.6dxx j.236a j.236d). I start using 6b more when I get closer to the corner or when they just get conditionned to block low too much, but it's more so they start getting hit by random lows again. 2a 6a 2b often catches people expecting 6b. Against some characters I won't even SoD after 6b on hit midscreen if I'm too far from the corner, I'll just dash throw or 2b and resume pressure.

After a midscreen 6b SoD (hit), I'll start zoning again. Something like 5dxx236a then react. On 236a block/hit, dash 6d 236d dash 4d jump forward mixup (empty jump low, delay airdash j.b, j.b land 6b...) If it whiffs because they stayed fullscreen, more steins. If it whiffed because they jumped over, anti air/dash under/backdash/jump back depending on height. Some characters have tools to counter this (lambda 4d, makoto bbs, spark bolt, etc.)

I will often 6b(1)rc 2b if they're in the corner or have low HP midscreen. On block, I pick one of these : backdash (safest), 2a (rare but on normal block), 5c (barrier block), SoD (think they'll mash), charged SoD (if they are respecting too much), DP(after instant block, if 50 heat and in corner, delay a bit).

That said, if you end a combo in 5[d]xx236a, you can dash forward 6b afterwards for a great setup. On hit, you can combo, on whiff the opponent trying to punish will eat the laser, on block you keep frame advantage due to the laser. (loses to mashing though)

[Lord Pwnge18]

There's actually a possibility to 2B them after hitting them with 6B crouching, but I'm not sure if it has to be CH or not. You can probably rapid and do more things as well, I haven't practiced it enough to know for sure yet.

It's actually really swagger, and kind of a tight link, so it will more likely than not take some practice. I think #basedpochp showed us some of it a little while ago.

[TD]

meterless 6b combo midscreen requires ch and crouching. iirc only 2a links after? not sure of 2b. regardless the reward (and the chances of this happening) are low, since she cant really 'frametrap' with 6b unless she does it from 5c/6c with rc. but it's worth knowing how to do

6b (crouching ch) dash 2a 5b 6a 2c 5c 6c oki

[Zeromus_X]

You can do a reasonably swag combo with 6B RC if you're near player starting position and want to get that corner carry. Just replace the 5B with 2B inbetween the 6As to make it more stable, and you can end with 5D > safejump or 5D > j2C oki or whatever if you don't have 100 meter.

[Lythium]

Cool, thanks guys! I appreciate the advice, and I will definitely try this stuff out. Time to hit up training mode.

You guys da bess. <3

[Tecta1Eastside]

Okay, guys. I'm having trouble with getting the most out of my 6B. Basically, I was playing against my sparring partner, and he was like "I have no reason to fear your midscreen 6B ever, because all you do is SoD off of it."

So, I guess what I'm wondering is how can I make people afraid of it? RC combos, sick stein set-ups, anything?

I LOL at the the first part of your partner saying 6b is useless. Her overhead creates extra mix-ups and mind games. For damage if you're close enough midscreen you can start your combo with 6b sod rapid and dash into the corner for the wallbounce for over 3k damage. As far as mix-ups go you can 6b rc of the 1st part or 2nd then 2b or grab or 6b again. With 100 heat you can add dp rc 6b or 2b or j2c etc into the mix. All of this scares your opponents midscreen if they block or get hit by it and is even better in the corner. All of the above options from the other mu-12 players are also good too.

[ElegantShadow]

Hello all, I'm still fairly new here and could use a little help, Now before I ask my questions keep in mind that Mu is my sub.

Okay now that that's out of the way....

First off, I tend to have problems with Mu's stein placement, should I use them as a means of keep my opponent at bay and trapping them for fear of me using 214D or should I use them to to cover me and lock down said opponent with 236D while I try for an approach/poke?

Secondly [this is more of a personal problem], you see I main Lambda and I use her more often then I do Mu, but whenever I use them one after another for some reason I sometimes end up trying to use an attack of the other character, so my question is is there anyway I can keep myself from doing that?

And lastly, is it a good idea to use 623C [Origins] on wake up even if the opponent might not attack?

I'm also open to any other advice any of you might have. :D

[Lord Pwnge18]

First off, I tend to have problems with Mu's stein placement, should I use them as a means of keep my opponent at bay and trapping them for fear of me using 214D or should I use them to to cover me and lock down said opponent with 236D while I try for an approach/poke?

You should use them to do both, and it will generally depend on what the situation is, as well as which character you are fighting. After a simple midscreen knockdown, you could do 6D > 4D and then decide whether or not to blow them up or send out a laser.

Secondly [this is more of a personal problem], you see I main Lambda and I use her more often then I do Mu, but whenever I use them one after another for some reason I sometimes end up trying to use an attack of the other character, so my question is is there anyway I can keep myself from doing that?

I'm sure everyone does this occasionally, I know I do it myself haha. There isn't really a way to fix this, you just have to make sure you know what character you're using. You'll probably get used to it as time goes on.

And lastly, is it a good idea to use 623C [Origins] on wake up even if the opponent might not attack?

It's totally legit to use Origins on wakeup if you think they're going to attack, especially if you have 50 meter for a rapid to be safe. Just try not to do it too often or they will probably start baiting it.

[Aginor]

Hello all, I'm still fairly new here and could use a little help, Now before I ask my questions keep in mind that Mu is my sub.

Okay now that that's out of the way....

First off, I tend to have problems with Mu's stein placement, should I use them as a means of keep my opponent at bay and trapping them for fear of me using 214D or should I use them to to cover me and lock down said opponent with 236D while I try for an approach/poke?

Secondly [this is more of a personal problem], you see I main Lambda and I use her more often then I do Mu, but whenever I use them one after another for some reason I sometimes end up trying to use an attack of the other character, so my question is is there anyway I can keep myself from doing that?

And lastly, is it a good idea to use 623C [Origins] on wake up even if the opponent might not attack?

I'm also open to any other advice any of you might have. :D

Yes, use Mu's steins to keep your opponent guessing. Mix it up between the non-charged ones and charged ones to keep them honest. At that point, you don't exactly have to use 214d or 236d. You can just keep chucking out steins and keep firing. Keep in mind this is pretty much full screen away. Once they get a little closer, you keep them honest with your normals. Mu's normals are really good. At this point, you have the option of keeping them out if they disrespect or if they start respecting you, you can start going in on them and mixing them up.

In regards to your second question, it happens to people if they play more than one character. I suggest if you're going to pick up Mu, just use her. It's hard to main another character and sub her. I tried to do that way back in the day and it really didn't work out so well for me. At least that's my opinion.

Your DP should be used on wake up to keep people honest. If they keep baiting it and punishing you, just stop and do something different like jump out or use your backdash.

[ElegantShadow]

You should use them to do both, and it will generally depend on what the situation is, as well as which character you are fighting. After a simple midscreen knockdown, you could do 6D > 4D and then decide whether or not to blow them up or send out a laser.

I'm sure everyone does this occasionally, I know I do it myself haha. There isn't really a way to fix this, you just have to make sure you know what character you're using. You'll probably get used to it as time goes on.

It's totally legit to use Origins on wakeup if you think they're going to attack, especially if you have 50 meter for a rapid to be safe. Just try not to do it too often or they will probably start baiting it.

Listen to these guys over me, they all know far more; I'm just some random netplayer who happens to play Mu.

[pochp]

First off, I tend to have problems with Mu's stein placement, should I use them as a means of keep my opponent at bay and trapping them for fear of me using 214D or should I use them to to cover me and lock down said opponent with 236D while I try for an approach/poke?

What I usually do is try to not stack up too many steins at the same spot on the screen. Before using either 236d/214d, use 236a, it's faster, it keeps your opponent out and allows you to take the time chose the best option depending on what you see. Use 214d if they're around a lot of steins and will most likely need to block, or else use 236d.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Does anyone have a suggestion for improving your Rush Down game with this character? I feel like I'm playing Lambda with a dp and lasers. Here's a video a friend uploaded recently from a set we played a few months. Quality isn't crappy like my vids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT0nVO5tWBA

[TD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkILKPgjDz8

ll haven't played this character in forever...

this way my first day using her again, so l forgot most of what l knew. however l optimized alot of stuff again (you guys will see them should l post another vid in due time) but looking at this vid again l amazed myself at how effectively l was using the steins (except the points where l fucked up a movement and died)

anyway critique n' shit welcome

[TD]

oh my matches are

0:22 vs ragna

9:08 vs ragna

18:26 vs plat

29:33 vs ragna

39:22 vs ragna

41:30 vs plat

[Lythium]

I only watched the first two or three matches of yours, TD. I really like some of your stein set-ups! Your hitconfirming was pretty good, however your combos were kinda meh and your spacing was a bit off at times, but I'll attribute that to rust, and not playing Mu for ages, haha. Your neutral game seems really solid as well. The only thing that I can really say is that I think you're pretty greedy with stein set-ups. Like, greedy to the point of eating a combo because you set one more stein than was probably necessary. But risk vs. reward, blah blah blah, you know. /shrug

Tectal, I think you need to use more command laser. Gives you cover while you rushdown, and go for mixups. But that's just my two cents.

[pochp]

Does anyone have a suggestion for improving your Rush Down game with this character? I feel like I'm playing Lambda with a dp and lasers. Here's a video a friend uploaded recently from a set we played a few months. Quality isn't crappy like my vids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT0nVO5tWBA

really nice play, could use a bit of polish though. around 0:30 you've got him in the corner, and you start stacking steins near you, after he blocks your 236a, might be a better idea to go for a command laser there, or at least split up the steins left-right-left-right so that if you chose to go into command laser at some point it gets maximal duration.

around 1:30 you gatling into 5c whiff, in my experience I prefer going 2c 5c rather than 5c 2c as 5c pushes the opponent further and has more chances of making the following move whiff. (of course not always the case, you don't want to do this when afraid of a reversal because gatling into 2c might have a gap) Right after at 1:35 you do this setup, not sure if you screwed up or not, but placing the steins in the opposite order will have the laser go back and forth for a better result.

Some combos could be better, at 1:45 I saw you dropped or went for a weird reset, you could do this instead 5c CH 6c RC 6b 6a j.2c 2b 6a j.2c (2b 5c 6c)/(2b 6a 6c 5d 214d I think this works, but char specific and won't work if too close to the corner). Right after, when you reset, I'm not 100% sure it would work at that height, but I'd try RCing the j.2c and following up with dash 2b into the rest of the combo. Around 2:50, 2b crouching at that distance I'm pretty sure you could have confirmed into 2b 5b 6c SoD 6b 6a j.2c j.d 2b 5c 2c j.2c.

I know not everything goes as planned in a match so there might be stuff I wrote that you're already aware of, but I hope there was at least something useful! Also, that Jin's mixup looked hard to block... If you want to improve your rushdown, you might want to try implementing this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_c6ya4TPKU and maybe this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrPMAlHju50 (though it makes mu similar to lambda's 236d mixup XD)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkILKPgjDz8

ll haven't played this character in forever...

this way my first day using her again, so l forgot most of what l knew. however l optimized alot of stuff again (you guys will see them should l post another vid in due time) but looking at this vid again l amazed myself at how effectively l was using the steins (except the points where l fucked up a movement and died)

anyway critique n' shit welcome

saw you spacing ground to ground with 2c a bit against ragna, I do that too when I get greedy cause I love the counterhits, but it's really not the best idea, 5c is better in range startup and recovery. even as an anti air saw you whiff a few 2c, the recovery is really bad and the invuln doesn't come up as fast as in CS2 so you might want to revise your use of it, though it didn't look that bad for you. super jump back j.c at the start of the round, why do this? Against platinum, normals cancel into 236d/214d is really risky because of heartcar.

barely saw you use j.b, really good mixup tool when they start blocking lasers, but your mixup looked like it worked out for you so you might not need it. you can confirm laser air CHs with j.a j.c j.2c dash j.b etc usually. saw you missed a bunch of crouching hitconfirms into 6c, might be due to the rust, but don't forget it gives you better oki/damage. when you try to catch rolls with 2b, tap the following 2c/5c really quickly so that it doesn't come out if 2b whiffs.

I'll just say this for now because there's some stuff that's probably due to rust or just mistakes and you probably figured it out yourself (like ending a blockstring in 2c...)

Edited July 20, 2012 by pochp

[Tecta1Eastside]

I meant to upload this yesterday, but here's a match I played a few days ago vs bang. I win a match and lose match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe_43CZL3Jo

[Tecta1Eastside]

oh my matches are

0:22 vs ragna

9:08 vs ragna

18:26 vs plat

29:33 vs ragna

39:22 vs ragna

41:30 vs plat

I'll give you my 2 cents later on today TD and thanks Lythium and Pochp.

[Tecta1Eastside]

oh my matches are

0:22 vs ragna

9:08 vs ragna

18:26 vs plat

29:33 vs ragna

39:22 vs ragna

41:30 vs plat

1st Ragna match: You hit landed 2c CH but you only did a air combo for 2.6k She has plenty of various combos off of 2c that do 3k-4k. At 01:19 you put out too many steins in the same area and you could of easily got grabbed out of 236d. You landed 2c at 01:55 and at that height you can 2c 5c 6c 214d whiff 6a etc combo. You landed that wall bounce at 02:05 and you pick that up for more damage.

2nd Ragna match: I say chill out on the 2c and tighten up you oki in the corner. If you're gonna use the command laser then use it earlier on the knockdown or just time your attacks with the normal laser for oki. Don't be afraid to use 6a 5a for pressure and anti airs.

Plat Match: At 19:08 you put out too many lasers and got punished for it. Some mistakes just seem like your making cuz of not having enough exp with her. Others issues are not enough rushdown like me.

3rd Ragna match: At 29:55 you had enough cover could of started rushing down and you placed a stein and got Jc CH for it. At 30:25 you can go for a corner combo and won instead of adding another 6c oki setup. At 30:43 you can 5b or 6b after 6a for more pressure. Too many 5c's and 2c's and you can CA to escape the corner.

4th Ragna Match: 2nd round dropped 2c ch combo and you dropped the 6a 6b loop but your opponent burst anyway. At 40:42 if you land a combo crouching you could of did 2b 2c 5c 6c sod for more damage but he burst anyway. Comboing into 6c crouching in the corner adds extra damage and allows you to do 4k off of 2b in the corner.

Last match: At 41:50 you dropped 236a laser hit and if you land that as your combo starter and pick it up with Jc, your opponent would have lost automatically. At 43:43 you can pick that up laser combo up with j2c super or just j2c 2c super. The end if the 2nd match you should of rushed down since you had 80+ heat and you could did whatever mix-up. At 45:03 you landed jc and you could have j2c rapid and ended the match since you had 100 heat and was near the corner for over 4-5k depending how you set up the corner combo. At worse she would have been almost dead.

Overall: Your zoning seems good but don't over zone and get punished. You also can use 5a 6a 5b 3c for pressure. SOD is also really good as poke too. Work on your combos and hit confirms along with your mix ups. Don't use 5c or 2c at close range cuz you can get punished easily by a faster normal. You can also link 5c into 6c on CH for extra oki and with 50 meter do 4k midscreen. In the corner, 5c into 6c does 5.5k crouching, anti air or CH for just for extra help with no meter. Use Counter Assualts more often since no one baits them that often unless it LK.

All the matches were fun to watch. You should play her more often even though u main rachel. You just need more consistent play time with Mu-12 and you'll be fine. Pretty good mu-12 in general and better since you subbing her. Im bout to play Tekken 6, so im done .

[xntrikcat]

Damn, TD, your Mu's better than mine >.<

[susano]

Damn, TD, your Mu's better than mine >.<

Better than mine too. Need to train with her and drop everyone else. ._.'

[TD]

thank you guys for the critique and help i'll be sure to keep all these things in mind.

[susano]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDSEIzn-Sgs&feature=g-high-u

vs

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Edited December 14, 2012 by susano