[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[IndigoNovember]

j.A j.B was always harder, I thought.

Not really, there's no special timing like there is for J.A in J.B > J.A . Instead for J.A > J.B , you just do a delay before the air dash then hit J.A > J.B with no delay in-between the two, then J.B's hitstun will let you land and do 2C. You can do J.A > J.B quite high up when compared to J.B > J.A .

[xlolxlolx]

but you can do like hop 2c>air shit for more lol

iono, guess its preference? but i think j.a>j.b definitely makes 5c follow up alot easier and dont think j.b>j.a would work for something like ch 3c>2b>5a>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b>2c>stuff

[IndigoNovember]

but you can do like hop 2c>air shit for more lol

Is this in reference to the back air throw combo? In that case, unless you do SJ.B > J.2A > AD J.B > J.2A > J.C , you won't really get a damage increase of more than 50. There's also the issue of Hop 2C not working on every character. Looking at you Noel, Mu-12, Lamda-11, Valkenhayn, and anyone else I forgot.

but i think j.a>j.b definitely makes 5c follow up alot easier

Hmm, I haven't noticed much difference between J.B > J.A or J.A > J.B when getting the 5C to connect ┐('～`；)┌ ...

dont think j.b>j.a would work for something like ch 3c>2b>5a>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b>2c>stuff

Yeah, I can definitely see J.B > J.A not working too well for cases where your opponent ends up really high. It does work by the way for the combo you posted, it's just infinitely easier to do J.A > J.B .

iono, guess its preference?

Indeed, I believe it should just be up to the player's preference in the end, though I do think being able to do either one would be very beneficial.

[eQualz]

Exactly, I'm just trying to understand his combo mechanic. It's about the same as Jin's air dash combo, either go with 5C > j.2C > j.D or 5C > 2C > j.D. The latter yields more damage yet I usually go with the former just because it feels easier.

Anyway, delaying the initial j.B definitely helped. Guess it all comes down to practice now. I can finally see a potential sub here after trying so many.

[kotokot]

j.B>j.A is super easy. Just delay j.B till your opponent is low and do j.A before landing.

[mAc Chaos]

but you can do like hop 2c>air shit for more lol

iono, guess its preference? but i think j.a>j.b definitely makes 5c follow up alot easier and dont think j.b>j.a would work for something like ch 3c>2b>5a>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b>2c>stuff

That kind of 3C combo sounds superior to the current 3C > 2B > Gurren > hop 5A > j.B > j.2A > AD j.B > j.A > 2C > j.B > j.2A > AD j.2A > j.C stuff. Or at least it doesn't use a star... hm.

[xlolxlolx]

uh it does like 2.8k and nets like 1.8 stars

ch 3c>2b>214a>hop 2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b>2c>sj.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c does 3.2k and actually gets you ~2 stars if you use it at start of match since meter gain from 0 to 1 is on steroids, but normally you'd just gain around 1.0-1.1 stars back

so if you get a noob with ch 3c at start of match, might as well spend the 1 star since youll get corner and have 2 stars to spend

but normal ch 3c situation, i'll go for the meterless one since i usually like to save up meter just in case i need it for something like counter super>kishuu>junk or renka>kishuu>stuff

[IndigoNovember]

That kind of 3C combo sounds superior to the current 3C > 2B > Gurren > hop 5A > j.B > j.2A > AD j.B > j.A > 2C > j.B > j.2A > AD j.2A > j.C stuff. Or at least it doesn't use a star... hm.

The combo xlolxlolx posted is the best we have for 1 magatama midscreen CH 3C .

actually gets you ~2 stars if you use it at start of match since meter gain from 0 to 1 is on steroids, but normally you'd just gain around 1.0-1.1 stars back

Are you sure the magatama gain is different between 0 to 1 and 1 to 8? It doesn't appear different to me....

but normal ch 3c situation, i'll go for the meterless one since i usually like to save up meter just in case i need it for something like counter super>kishuu>junk or renka>kishuu>stuff

Now that I know that combo exists I'll definitely go for it more often. Probably the only real reason to go for the 1 magatama combo is if you are too far away for the 5A to catch after the 2B (max range 3C) .

[xlolxlolx]

im pretty certain theres a difference cuz i tested with 1 star and i got 2 stars back at the end but starting with 5 stars i only got to 6.0-6.1 stars =/

[IndigoNovember]

im pretty certain theres a difference cuz i tested with 1 star and i got 2 stars back at the end but starting with 5 stars i only got to 6.0-6.1 stars =/

Are we perhaps framing the magatama regained differently? Gurren takes away 1 magatama so you'd have 4 magatama after the Gurren which means you'd gain 2 magatama by the end to end up with 6 magatama. If you were talking about total overall gained, then it would be 1 magatama, but by using that method a lot of stuff would end up being like -1.3 magatama...

[xlolxlolx]

oh...yeah.....i think i had a huge hurrdurr moment there :V

[Arcknight]

I have a question born from ignorance. Was the untechable time for for j.2C reduced or am I just THAT out of practice with these combos? It just seems to me that I am dropping that loop a lot more lately than ever before.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Dropping it a lot more with regards to cs1 or cs2 combos?

[mAc Chaos]

The third loop is not always possible, but the actual link hasn't seemed different to me.

[BladeOfJustice7]

You can't get a third loop with hotaru, unless it's an fc, and even then I find it's still kinda tight. Third loop is possible on every other corner combo starter, depending on the first hit. Attacks with low power levels (2a, 2b) don't give you the chance to do a third loop, compared to stronger starters like 5b, 5c. You can't get a third loop either off renka, regardless of the starter.

[Arcknight]

Dropping it a lot more with regards to cs1 or cs2 combos?

Yes actually. That is it in a nutshell.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Wait what? I'm asking if your dropping csex combos with regards to doing hakumen combos in cs1 or cs2 combos, I don't know what combos you're used to.

[mAc Chaos]

> Surprised CS1/2 combos not working perfectly

> Extend

y u do dis

Anyway, it should be the same. Your timing is probably off.

You're talking about the old 623AA > falling j.2C > 2C stuff right?

Edited April 11, 2012 by mAc Chaos

[Sophisticat]

Dustloop or corner loop?

There's been no change to j.2c as far as I know, but j.2a has had untech frames added to it.

[WolfCrimson]

I don't think j2C untechable time changed. Proof of that is that 5C > kishuu > enma > fj2C > 5C > 2C is the exact same as it was before, like, it requires the exact same timing as before.

[mAc Chaos]

And I still don't get the timing for that. :<

[IndigoNovember]

And I still don't get the timing for that. :<

Delay the J.2C a lot as well as be really close when you do the initial 5C . I think doing 5B might be easier since it doesn't push your opponent as far away.

[Arcknight]

While I never did that above combo. I did do the corner loops and the dustloop midscreen. I figured my timing was off a bit is all. Every time I went from fj.2C > 2C they would tech out. It's probably just my error but I wasn't sure if there was a change or not. It shouldn't be too hard to get the hang of it again I guess.

[Sophisticat]

^ Are you, perhaps, doing the loop off throw? It's stricter in that case, and j.2c has to hit lower for 2c to connect properly.

[Arcknight]

^ Are you, perhaps, doing the loop off throw? It's stricter in that case, and j.2c has to hit lower for 2c to connect properly.

I DO use a lot of throws in my neutral game. If this is the case it might explain what I've been experiencing. I can't say that is it 100% but that definitely holds a lot of water in my case. Thanks for that bit of advice.

To be fair though I haven't hit training hardly at all with Hakumen. I had to relearn Noel and Mu to major extents first. I should give the white void his day in the sun soon I suppose.