[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[mAc Chaos]

His combo mechanics aren't really different in Extend. You just need to learn a few new routes that consist of j.B j.A and such.

[Arcknight]

His combo mechanics aren't really different in Extend. You just need to learn a few new routes that consist of j.B j.A and such.

Post Renka(midscreen) is it better to do one than the other? Both seem bizarre to land. Granted I haven't practiced it a whole lot as I noted earlier. Heck I never did get the extended corner loop to work right in CS2.

[xlolxlolx]

doesnt really matter its up to you

[mAc Chaos]

Renka Gurren does slightly less damage midscreen but leads to more corner combo followups.

Renka Kishuu does more damage midscreen and has more corner carry.

[IndigoNovember]

Renka Gurren does slightly less damage midscreen but leads to more corner combo followups.

Renka Kishuu does more damage midscreen and has more corner carry.

Actually Renka(1) > Kishuu always does more or comparable damage. So you should probably just stick with Renka(1) > Kishuu combos.

[mAc Chaos]

I'm pretty sure you can extend the Gurren one for more damage in the corner. I actually got two loops off it, I think, whereas with the Kishuu one I got just the normal combo. I forget though.

[IndigoNovember]

I'm pretty sure you can extend the Gurren one for more damage in the corner. I actually got two loops off it, I think, whereas with the Kishuu one I got just the normal combo. I forget though.

Even with the second loop, it does less...

(3) 5C > Renka(1) > Gurren > IAD J.B > J.A > 2C > SJ.2A > AD J.2A > J.2C > SJ.2A > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C > 6A > 5C > 3C [4781 / 2.3]

vs

(3) 5C > Renka(1) > Kishuu > Hop 2C > J.B > J.2A > AD J.B > J.A > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C > 6A > 5C > 3C [4851 / 2]

Edit:

Or not...

(3) 5C > Renka(1) > Gurren > IAD J.B > J.A > 5C > 2C > SJ.B > J.2A > J.2C > 2C > SJ.2A > AD J.2A > J.C > 6A > 5C > 3C [5164 / 2.3]

2A starter yields [3494]

vs

(3) 5C > Renka(1) > Kishuu > Hop 2C > J.B > J.2A > AD J.B > J.A > 5C > 2C > J.B > J.2A > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C > 6A > 5C > 3C [5132 / 2.4]

2A starter yields [3469]

Note: these combos may not be optimal depending on starter or in general but they work from midscreen on Ragna. For what it's worth they're decent...

Edited April 12, 2012 by IndigoNovember

[mAc Chaos]

Hmmm, argh. Now I'll have to go into training mode again. I swear I found combos that did more a good deal more damage when I was screwing around, although maybe the route wasn't identical.

But for now I'll just direct you to this: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11432-CS2-Hakumen-Combo-Guide&p=1235232&viewfull=1#post1235232

[Arcknight]

What is the difficulty between those though? Some combos are just not worth trying online. But I would prefer both of those to a Renka>IAD>disaster-in-my-hands combo I think. I really should get around to trying these new combos out. @.@;

[mAc Chaos]

They're both pretty easy. Or at least, they both have the same tough points which is the IAD j.B j.A stuff. Once you get that timing down you'll be set.

[Arcknight]

They're both pretty easy. Or at least, they both have the same tough points which is the IAD j.B j.A stuff. Once you get that timing down you'll be set.

I guess I'll just find the one that works for me. I have just been sticking with my fundamentals and terrible combos for so long. I need to upgrade this crap. Thanks Mac!

[IndigoNovember]

I recommend you learn both J.A > J.B and J.B > J.A , since while J.A > J.B is easier to pull off when doing random hit confirms, J.B > J.A is required for some combos to work.

Some tips for doing [starter] > Renka(1) > Kishuu > 2C > J.B > J.2A > AD J.B > J.A > 2C > SJ.2A > AD J.2A > J.C:

Other things you should do:

• Wait for your opponent to be completely grounded before you do 2C (this is why some people do a hop after the Kishuu, to better utilize the time when your opponent is falling).
  
• Delay not only the initial J.B but also the following J.2A.
  
• Air Dash immediately after the J.2A.
  
• Delay the J.B after the Air Dash until your opponent is at their lowest before they can tech.
  
• Delay the J.A after the J.B until you are just about to land. Ideally you want to land to cancel the recovery of J.A so you can go immediately to 2C or any other following move.
  
  

Some tips for doing [starter] > Renka(1) > Kishuu > 2C > J.B > J.2A > AD J.A > J.B > 2C > SJ.2A > AD J.2A > J.C:
You should do the same as listed above except:

Ideally you want your opponent as low as possible before you do the J.A.

Delay your Air Dash until your opponent has fallen for a bit.
Depending on your height relative to your opponent's height (you want to be above your opponent), you might even want to delay the J.A.
Do J.A > J.B with little to no gap

Hope this helps.

[Arcknight]

I recommend you learn both J.A > J.B and J.B > J.A , since while J.A > J.B is easier to pull off when doing random hit confirms, J.B > J.A is required for some combos to work.

Some tips for doing [starter] > Renka(1) > Kishuu > 2C > J.B > J.2A > AD J.B > J.A > 2C > SJ.2A > AD J.2A > J.C:

Some tips for doing [starter] > Renka(1) > Kishuu > 2C > J.B > J.2A > AD J.A > J.B > 2C > SJ.2A > AD J.2A > J.C:

You should do the same as listed above except:

• Ideally you want your opponent as low as possible before you do the J.A.
  
• Delay your Air Dash until your opponent has fallen for a bit.
  
• Depending on your height relative to your opponent's height (you want to be above your opponent), you might even want to delay the J.A.
  
• Do J.A > J.B with little to no gap
  

Hope this helps.

That's a fair bit of helpful advice. I appreciate it. I have just delayed learning this stuff since I had 2 other characters to overhaul combos on as well(Noel/Mu). I was always wondering why people did a dash in there after the Kishuu. I suppose it helps push them a little farther as well(maybe). I'll try and put some of this to good use over the weekend.

I proposed an idea for ammending notation a bit in NVG but no one seemed to notice. It's not super relevant to Noel so much anyways. With all the small delays that are in Haku's combos though, I thought it might help to represent them via a "." or something. Example Kishuu/Enma >. j.2C > 2C > blah blah. If it's a long delay maybe add 2 ".." or something. Maybe something more visible? It was just a thought I had. It isn't anything that needs to be taken seriously though.

Thanks again everyone for the input.

[xlolxlolx]

wut dat renka guren does 4.7k o_O

5c>214b(1)>623a>hop 2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b>5c>2c>sj.2a>j.2c>2c>sj.2a>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c>5c>3c does 5.3k lol

[IndigoNovember]

I proposed an idea for ammending notation a bit in NVG but no one seemed to notice. It's not super relevant to Noel so much anyways. With all the small delays that are in Haku's combos though, I thought it might help to represent them via a "." or something. Example Kishuu/Enma >. j.2C > 2C > blah blah. If it's a long delay maybe add 2 ".." or something. Maybe something more visible? It was just a thought I had. It isn't anything that needs to be taken seriously though.

Hmm, not a bad idea.

Example with added notation for testing purposes:

(3) [starter] > Renka(1) > Kishuu > [6C] > 2C > SJ.B > J.2A >.. J.2C > 2C > SJ.2A >.. J.2C > 2C > SJ.2A >. AD J.2A >. J.C > 6A > 5C > 3C [3528 - 6295 / 2.7]

(3) [starter] > Renka(1) > Kishuu > Hop 2C >. J.B >. J.2A >. AD. J.A > J.B > 2C > SJ.2A > AD J.2A > J.C [2669 - 4444 / 1.5]

Hmm, since explanation will have to be in place for those who haven't done the combos yet, I'm not sure of the necessity of adding in where to delay in the combo. Maybe for returning players I guess? Though I don't see why they couldn't just read the notes again. Thoughts anyone?

wut dat renka guren does 4.7k o_O

5c>214b(1)>623a>hop 2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b>5c>2c>sj.2a>j.2c>2c>sj.2a>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c>5c>3c does 5.3k lol

Do note that doing a loop of the corner combo with a Renka(1) > Kishuu combo only works with 5C, Gurren, and Renka. At least those are the only starters that work for me. But yeah, good stuff.

[xlolxlolx]

whats the 2nd guren one you posted, cuz its the same as the first one

[IndigoNovember]

whats the 2nd guren one you posted, cuz its the same as the first one

D'oh (__ __) *headdesk . Edited. Thanks for the catch.

[xlolxlolx]

uhhh since youre proly starting at p2 you can do shit like 2a>236b(1)>623a>hop 2c>sj.b>j.2a>air dash>j.b>j.2a>j.2c>5c>2c>j.b>j.2a>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c>(6a?)>5c>3c for 3.6k

Edited April 12, 2012 by xlolxlolx

[IndigoNovember]

uhhh since youre proly starting at p2 you can do shit like 2a>236b(1)>623a>hop 2c>sj.b>j.2a>air dash>j.b>j.2a>j.2c>5c>2c>j.b>j.2a>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c>(6a?)>5c>3c for 3.6k

Hmm, very interesting combo. Would not have thought up of that.

[mAc Chaos]

Matchup threads:

[IndigoNovember]

How would you propose I attempt to differentiate stuff that works on characters from stuff that works on netplayers who play the character? That's my biggest problem right now...

[mAc Chaos]

Don't worry about that. Just post stuff and if it's way off base then people will just point out what you could do instead that would be better.

[psycofang2]

How would you propose I attempt to differentiate stuff that works on characters from stuff that works on netplayers who play the character? That's my biggest problem right now...

or do what i do, training mode, set up situation find solutions A through possible Z. is it consistent and often used? yes? post it if not posted. is it inconsistently used? yes? post it ayway because even more people dont know about it.

what works for a punish/defense/offense? strategies, does it work every time? must be a yes.

gimmicky? post it anyway humans cant react to every thing the first time seeing it.

[C0R]

I proposed an idea for ammending notation a bit in NVG but no one seemed to notice. It's not super relevant to Noel so much anyways. With all the small delays that are in Haku's combos though, I thought it might help to represent them via a "." or something. Example Kishuu/Enma >. j.2C > 2C > blah blah. If it's a long delay maybe add 2 ".." or something. Maybe something more visible? It was just a thought I had. It isn't anything that needs to be taken seriously though.

Mu boards have been using : and ~ for a while now.

~ - Continue until appropriate, used to fix range/spacing issues (ex. 66~6a)

: - Minor Delay, as to not overly spell out waiting periods (ex. 6a > :6b)

[BladeOfJustice7]

Well this sub-forum has been dead (as usual). Been on a week break from this game, anything new gaiz? I think I'm at a point with csex hakumen where I can pick up a sub finally.

Also, am I the only person who doesn't like the risk reward assessment of using j.d?