Eshi Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Yayyyyy hopefully no more superflash > get raped > no super. D:still salty about losing to tokido aren't ya?
Spirit Juice Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 BlazBlue CSII: Tager is Finally Good ....so many Tagers in NorCal. So many yet they're so free.
Shinkada Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 (edited) Let's discuss a bit more since this thread is supposed to be a discussion thread First of all thank you for not being a total douchebag like some people. For the record, I definitely do not think I know more than you, doubly so about Jin. The main changes that made me think Jin is/will be high tier are: -2C>5C possible (can't input 2C twice), from the first loctest. This allowed for a 4k combo which is very high for a first-try combo in CS2 where, as I've said before, average damage seems to be ~3.2k for fast melee-ers. If he keeps damage similar to CS1 when everyone else's damage has gone down so much he'll be scary. -5D start up faster but shorter freeze time, can combo from 5C, second loctest. I don't know much about Jin's combos but several people commented on this being a very strong change, in regards to being able to freeze standing opponents very easily. (Now that I'm looking closely I think this was actually reversed in Loctest 3, derp) -I just now remembered that Loctest 4 gave everyone an unblockable 5B or 5C and thus Jin's very strong air-unblockable 5C in the 3rd Loctest is moot. Though that's a pretty damn good move to have air unblockable. So yes in retrospect I relied on other people saying Jin was overpowered far too much (Hecatom made a good point there). 5C to 5D still seems like a very nice change, and I retain my point that he's been buffed (if not as much as I originally thought) where others around him have received nerfs, but "crash course for top tier" was incorrect of me. I'd still guess high-ish tier but I don't like to guess shoddy tier placements like that unless it seems outright top tier. So tl;dr: No, I didn't look as deeply into the loctest changes as I should have, and I went on the words of commenters far too much, and I apologize for that. Thanks for making me analyze it a bit more, too, not really worried about Jin now. See what happens when people are reasonable? So are the people you other guys are jerkwads to. Slayer? I WISH I could forget him, those FB combos still keep me awake at night. EDIT: Re: Tager is finally good. That's kind of a scary thought. The better SoCal players (lol obvious shoutout) already manage to make Tager look so damn awesome even though I know perfectly well he's crappy, hopefully him being good won't mean the end of stupid ridiculous and awesome gimmicks. Edited November 16, 2010 by Shinkada
tofurr Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 So many yet they're so free. Ha, I guess I wouldn't know yet.
ZONG_one Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 still salty about losing to tokido aren't ya? I was never salty to begin with. Lol. I just hate how that move is like that. I know it's not a reversal, and I don't even want invincibility, I just want the damn thing to trade like it did in CT.
Henaki Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Depending on much much less recovery Tager has on 3C, that could be a very good change. In most cases, most characters cant really punish him without a really fast horizontal poke. It might be actually viable to go for primal removal now in a lot of instances.
Umareru Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Yeah, this has been corrected. ZONG beat me to it. Cool! Thanks for the clarification!
Jewdo Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Rachel: 風を使わなくてもJCが繋がる [This was next to the nerf that was about 2C having more hit stop I believe.] 火力が据え置きでC追加の仕様変更のためCSより火力を出しにくくなった + Even if you don't use wind, j.C will connect (after 2C). - Leaving damage itself aside, the way 5C was changed makes it harder to land damage than in CS? When another translator gets on here, please clarify the second change. I'm in the middle of class, can't give it too much thought at the moment.
Augxst Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 tagers 2C to 3C, why? add that. I could see if it had good recovery or had good push back on block, well we'll see
DemiiPoet Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Just to confirm, the loketests are inclusive right? Like, everything from loketest 5 on back will be included?
Remiri Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 On the 1st post of this thread it states that previous loketest changes are still in effect unless otherwise mentioned.
Augxst Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Just to confirm, the loketests are inclusive right? Like, everything from loketest 5 on back will be included? pretty much, yeah
eirei Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Gravity increased. After things like Inferno Divider or Air Lobelia, you fall faster. Ragna + 6A faster, 5A 6B(maybe he means A) works on airborne opponent. - Madao has no +f (can still manage to stuff mashing, but hard). Rachel - Actually harder to get damage now with the 5CC change. - George has less life. - j2C Lv2 bounces higher. Tao - 3C techable (maybe?). Litchi + 2C CH launches opponent high. Itsuu possible afterwards. + Chun has more untech time? + 6D wallslams/bounces only on airborne opponents. Hakumen + 5A j2A connects (j2A faster?). + jA JB chain added. + 5D comboable on some characters. - 3C techable. Only comboable on CH. Lambchops + jDD knocks down airborne opponent. Techable. + Calamity bounces on FC, can combo without meter. Valk - 2C may have lost upper body invincibility. - Wolf change cancel slower recovery. Harder to mixup with Nacht Jäger because of this.
DemiiPoet Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Sorry. Was looking at the first loketest thread :/ "Note: If a change is not list in a recent loctest, but was in previous ones, assume the change was removed."
BatousaiJ Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Valk - 2C may have lost upper body invincibility. - Wolf change cancel slower recovery. Harder to mixup with Nacht Jäger because of this. Hum... these two changes if true will have bigger impact on his viability more than any amount of damage nerfs combined.
wuku Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 (edited) Hakumen Extra changes I didn’t list last time. *J2C and JB: Disregard 4400 and 3100 damage one I posted last time, the original post guy said it was incorrect. Those combos do less damage than listed. - 2A: 2A > 5B doesn’t connect anymore - 5A: has more proration now, 5A > 5B now connects. 5A > 5B > Enma > J2C > 2C > J2A > J2A > JC (I’ll call this Enma Combo) does about 2000 damage - 5B: has more proration now. 5B (counter hit) > 5B works now. 5B > Enma Combo does about 2300 – 2400 damage - 3C: you can’t do any combo on normal hit - 2C: has better hit box (idk if that’s horizontal or vertical) 2C> Enma Combo does 2700 – 2800 damage - JC: You can combo into 5C or 6C once corner hit. - JA: Now chains to JB - J2A: has more proration, but not just like.. more general proration or initial proration. Maybe added a special property. - J2C: Faster startup now. has a lot less proration now. J2C > 5C > Enma Combo does 3200 - 3250 damage. - 4C: Faster startup now. Air unblockable now. (LAWL WTF?) 4C > Enma Combo does about 2230 ~ 2300 dmg. - 5C: Faster startup now. has more proration now. 5C > Enma Combo does 3100 – 3200 damage. - 6C: Faster startup now. Slides down on air hit. You can do follow up combo at the corner. Whatever wall bounce move > 6C is now more stable. - All D moves: you get the 1 orb meter once you counter, but it doesn’t apply if you counter projectiles. - 5D: can combo into 2B. 5D > 2B > gurren > step 5A > JA > JB > J2A > JC does about 2100 dmg. - 6D: damage is 1600 now. Can’t do any followup combo. - JD: Can’t do any followup combo - Renka: (at the corner) Renka > 5B > J2A > J2C > 2C > J2A > J2A > JC does 3052 dmg. (at the corner) Renka > Zantetsu > 2C > J2A > blah blah does 4700 – 4900 dmg. - Hotaru: kicks you to the wall with 45 degree and wall bounce. You can follow with 6C. At the corner you can do followup combo with full charge 6C. Near corner you can do Hotaru > 6C > 2C. (at near corner) Hotaru > 6C (full charge) > 5C > Gurren > 2C > blah blah does about 4700 – 4900 damage. - Tsubaki: (at the corner) Tsubaki > 3C damage is about 2700. At near corner, Hotaku > Tsubaki combo lets you slide down to the middle of the screen. Tsubaki > Shippu (shockwave) combo works, damage is about 3334. (near corner) Tubaki > 2C > J2A > J2C > 2C > J2A > J2A > Jc > 5C > 3C does about 4600 dmg. - Forward/Back Throw: you can do followup combo only at the corner. Edited November 16, 2010 by wuku
mAc Chaos Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 7 stars for... 3334 damage. These changes are terrible. It was said earlier j.2C > 5C > enma combo did 4400, but you're saying it does 3200ish now. Which one is correct?
wuku Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Oh i forgot adding about that, thanks for pointing out. I will fix about it soon.
Kuuhaku Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Oppa- can you translate Rachel changes too?
Lou_Cypher Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 So does this mean Haku's 2C can actually void projectiles more consistently now? I know that was a minor thing in the past.
mAc Chaos Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 So does this mean Haku's 2C can actually void projectiles more consistently now? I know that was a minor thing in the past. I think there's a difference between his hitbox, for damage, and the "voidbox." We don't have any way to measure that.
tofurr Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Oppa- can you translate Rachel changes too? + Even if you don't use wind, j.C will connect (after 2C). - Actually harder to get damage now with the 5CC change. - George has less life. - j2C Lv2 bounces higher. It's already been done.
Kuuhaku Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 + Even if you don't use wind, j.C will connect (after 2C). - Actually harder to get damage now with the 5CC change. - George has less life. - j2C Lv2 bounces higher. It's already been done. The character summary too?
tofurr Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Oh, none of those have been done yet. Sorry.
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