[CS2] Noel Vermillion Combo Discussion: Please let this land!

[Runis]

Just an update on my 3C at point blank combo:

3C 22B 2B 6C(2) ~SLIGHT STEP BACK 6C 22B 22BBBBBC 66 6C ~4D d6C 623D 6C jc j.D d.6D d.6B d.5D d.5C 236D, 4540 damage, 54 heat - works on everyone I've tried so far. The step back into 22B is a little tricky but once you get it the rest of the combo is cake walk.

[Halcyone3]

j.4D > d.6C > d.2D > 623D > 66C(2) > 6C > j.D > d.4D > 236D > 66C > 5D > d.6B > d.5B> d.5D > d.5C > 236D

Can't actually test it out right now, but I think this does a bit more damage. If you get a fatal counter, you can do j.D > d.4D > d.236D > 6C > 22B > 22BBBBBC~66 > 6C > 5D > Ender as well for even more damage.

Ill give that a shot when i get the chance to test myself, thanks

I could have sworn I posted this combo before :/

i posted cuz i saw no crouching j.4D corner cross up combos on first post. Sorry if it was late news.

[LunaKage]

Ill give that a shot when i get the chance to test myself, thanks

i posted cuz i saw no crouching j.4D corner cross up combos on first post. Sorry if it was late news.

No biggy, if you didn't see the combo in the first post then it's not your fault, it's Hex's fault, I'll yell at him later :3

[Runis]

that corner ragna combo I posted is about 4.6-4.8k damage and 67-78ish meter, depending on how many reps you do.

Also with corner j.4D if you don't mind using meter and your target is FAT. j.4D d.6C d.2D RC 3C~ HAIDA CON

[Runis]

Just a slight stylin' combo I pulled off by accident when fighting Rachel -

When Cornering someone FC 4D d.6C 214A 6A 6C jc GB dash under 6C(2) Wall bounce Dash under (6C B+C) x 2 22B 22BBC (66C 22B 22B) x N Fenrir. Forgot exactly how much damage it does though.

It could be way more stylish than that though.

[LiveWireX]

This is gonna come across as a total scrub question, and kinda embarrassing coming from someone who's played her since CT, but when I go to throw in the whole 4D>d.6C or 4D>BT into a corner combo, my opponent always seems to get out between the 4D and the second one. I don't know if there's a timing thing that's tricky, if it's just because I didn't used to do it so it's going against my muscle memory, or if there's another step I'm missing. So yeah, any suggestions or further comments that aren't 'wtf are you doing playing Noel if you drop that part?' would be appreciated.

[Sahgren]

This is gonna come across as a total scrub question, and kinda embarrassing coming from someone who's played her since CT, but when I go to throw in the whole 4D>d.6C or 4D>BT into a corner combo, my opponent always seems to get out between the 4D and the second one. I don't know if there's a timing thing that's tricky, if it's just because I didn't used to do it so it's going against my muscle memory, or if there's another step I'm missing. So yeah, any suggestions or further comments that aren't 'wtf are you doing playing Noel if you drop that part?' would be appreciated.

You'll want to catch them as low as possible with the 6C leading up to the 4D. If you catch them too high, they'll either be able to tech before they fall into the d.6C or be outside the range of BT.

[LunaKage]

What Sahgren said, also note that certain starters just wont allow 4D > 6C at all, like for example forward grab > stuff > 6C(2) > 4D > d.6C wont work, however for some reason it works if you do 4D > d.6C BEFORE you use 6C(2), not entirely sure why, but what can you do?

I haven't tested every single possible starter, but usually it's pretty safe to assume that if you overload on pokes near the beginning of the combo it wont let you 4D > d.6C.

[LiveWireX]

Thanks guys, I'll give that a try next time I'm in training mode. Hm, I guess an issue I've sometimes had is differing from combos that work to try something else that might work better. But hey, it can be the little things that make a good bit of difference.

[Halcyone3]

Thanks guys, I'll give that a try next time I'm in training mode. Hm, I guess an issue I've sometimes had is differing from combos that work to try something else that might work better. But hey, it can be the little things that make a good bit of difference.

If its still giving u trouble, the key is to delay both. You are most probably doing a 6C right before 4D, right after 6C, delay a bit before u do 4D so it hits the opponent when he's almost to the floor. That should be plenty for 4D->d.6C, but for 4D->236D, u can do a small delay for 236D too.

[SkyKing]

You just have to be extremely careful with the delays, as the window to hit 4D > delayed 236D is pretty small at times and missing it means your wide open when they tech out.

[LiveWireX]

Yeah, I can see what you mean. Easing off it and letting a bit of a delay come in has seemed to make it flow better when I've been practicing. I'm just gonna keep at it, I guess.

[zeech]

If I get a 2D hit on someone in the air, are there combos that I can do?

[HexaNoid]

If I get a 2D hit on someone in the air, are there combos that I can do?

In the corner, you can do 2D > d.623D into a combo. Midscreen you will have to use 2D > d.5C > 236A > 662A/66C > j.D > combo. If you hit your opponent too high these won't connect at all sometimes, so be careful of that as well.

[jailhousefrog89]

yeah if you go for 2d airhit into 5c into OB and your opponent was too high for it, you'll get punished so be careful

its better to just reload and go for the oki midscreen if you think your opponent is too high up

[LunaKage]

2D > d.5C only works on Counter Hit.

2D > Spring Raid in the corner makes everyone salty.

[Zeron_X25]

ok I guess here is a good place to post. So day 3 Noel and I got tons of questions for you guys. My first biggest problem is with her 2D universal combo. When I do muzzle filter after the 6C in revolver, I'm supposed to pick it up with 2B > 6C > 22B > 22B~C > 6C etc. I just cannot get the 22B to hit the opponent. The only times I can get it to hit is in challenge mode. After reading and searching up some stuff on Noel in this board, I understand that her 22B/22Cs are height related. So either they're too high or I'm doing the combo wrong. But no amount of delay gets me a hit outside of challenge mode. I've tried everything but it doesn't work.

My second biggest problem is the command dash that's supposed to happen after a set of 22Bs into C. I'm not quite sure how to get this. The combo shows a command dash and then a second dash by the player into a 6C. But the only way I can get the combo to work most the times is to somehow make it so that the command dash doesn't come out and I just manually dash 6C.

This kinda shows what I'm talking about and it's the only Noel footage of me I've got and it's from yesterday. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwalhDIPFPs

You see I never did 2 dashes but just one. And it kinda got muscle memory for me to do 236A (Revolver blast? my bad... Optic Barrel) after 6C. I'm sure I should have done grab > 6C instead. And someone explain why that just happened...

My third biggest problem is the Haida loop. First: I do not know how to do it. Second: Do not know when I can do it. Third: Do not know the requirements.

So if anyone can explain a bit. I know there's a Haida loop section but it kinda doesn't address my problems so yeah.

Oh and I guess the last problem is that I don't know the difference in her D combos and how it affects her combos as a whole. What I mean by that is that I don't know the difference between doing 6C > 5D > 6B > 5C > 5D > 236D and 6C > 5D > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236D. Or any other example of that.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Zeron_X25

[HexaNoid]

My first biggest problem is with her 2D universal combo. When I do muzzle filter after the 6C in revolver, I'm supposed to pick it up with 2B > 6C > 22B > 22B~C > 6C etc. I just cannot get the 22B to hit the opponent.

Well, first things first. Like you correctly presumed, hitting 22B after 6C is height dependant and - where a delay won't work - you'll have to use 6C > B+C(whiff) > 6C > 22B to get the Silencer to hit. This is a much safer way to connect to 22B, but since this pushes your opponent slightly further away from you, you won't be able to do as many reps 22B before you do 22C.

I'm not quite sure how to get this. The combo shows a command dash and then a second dash by the player into a 6C. But the only way I can get the combo to work most the times is to somehow make it so that the command dash doesn't come out and I just manually dash 6C.

XXX > 22BBBBC~66 > 66C. What you're doing here is basically a small dash after the dash cancel, but you only really need to do that if you've used too many 22Bs in your combo and pushed your opponent too far away with from you to reach them with 6C (which is usually after 4/5 reps). I would get more comfortable using the dash cancel before you try this though as you need to have a good grasp of her dash cancel as well as it's recovery before you can consistently do the mini-dash after.

This kinda shows what I'm talking about and it's the only Noel footage of me I've got and it's from yesterday. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwalhDIPFPs

You see I never did 2 dashes but just one. And it kinda got muscle memory for me to do 236A (Revolver blast?) after 6C. I'm sure I should have done grab > 6C instead.

Yeah, using a manual dash like that means you won't be able to fit in as many reps of 22B as possible, which is why you need to learn her dash cancel; the more 22Bs you do, the better the damage. There's nothing wrong with doing 6C > 236A (Optic Barrel), but in the corner you'll want to make sure you let the second hit of 6C combo out as it wallbounds, gives a 120% proration bonus and makes certain combos easier to do. 236A in some longer combos might not be advisable though, since the added proration will allow your opponent to tech out.

And someone explain why that just happened...

Double Fenrir doesn't work with every combo and if the combo prorates enough - like in that combo - your opponent will be able to tech out at some point during the second distortion drive. I think you've seen Noel's Fenrir (Finisher) hitbox, so I won't bother to explain the rest. :P

My third biggest problem is the Haida loop. First: I do not know how to do it. Second: Do not know when I can do it. Third: Do not know the requirements.

Firstly, the input for haida is either [22B > 66C] xN or [22B > 66A > 6C] xN. The variation required depends on the character, but that's all addressed in the haida loop guide. Your best bet for haida looping an opponent is usually at the early stages of a combo as long or heavily prorated combos will either make haidas short or altogether impossible. 3C > 22BBBC~66 > 6C > haida is a decent starter to practice getting to grips with it and you can get up to 11 reps using it, but there are a different starters with different potentials too (which I'll add to the haida guide later). And third, the only requirement to do the haida is that your opponent is grounded. This can be done one of three ways: after a 3C, after a 214A (Muzzle Flitter) or after a j.D (either j.D > reload > 2B > 6C > haida or j.D > d.4D > d.236D > 6C > haida). The j.D > d.4D > d.236D > 6C version can only be done in the corner though.

Oh and I guess the last problem is that I don't know the difference in her D combos and how it affects her combos as a whole. What I mean by that is that I don't know the difference between doing 6C > 5D > 6B > 5C > 5D > 236D and 6C > 5D > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236D. Or any other example of that.

To make things a little clearer, any part of Noel's combos that involve her drive state are noted down as d.#X - d.5C for example. The difference between those two combo enders is that the one that ends with d.5D > d.236D is a lot less stable than the one that ends with d.5C > d.236D. This is because d.5C has a lot more untechable time than d.5D and so your opponent may be able to tech out inbetween d.5D > d.236D in longer combos where they wouldn't be able to if you used d.5C.

And I think that should do it. Tell me if I've made anything unclear or not gone into enough detail and I'll see if I can help clear up any more of your problems.

[Zeron_X25]

Thanks a lot for the post. I really appreciate it. I almost completely solved two of my problems now thanks to this. The reason I could not do the dash candel > 66C was because I didn't exactly know how to trigger the dash. I'm fairly used to 66Cs as a matter of fact because I main Hazama. I can do it successfully now with the mini dash ^_^

As for the height issue, I really didn't know how to change the height. I'm getting the hang of it now and I can do it with a great success rate. As for the Haida loop, I now know how it works and I should be getting it down in a few days of practice. Very useful post. Thanks General HexaNoid.

[zeech]

Thanks for the answers. Another question. In training mode, I notice that 2C / 5C > 3C on crouchers doesnt always combo. (eg. 2A > B > C > 5C > 3C on croucher). I can't tell what makes it fail, it doesnt seem to be timing (ive seen it fail on a buffered gatling) or distance (ive seen it work at long distance and fail at various distances.) Can anyone give a clue as to why that happens and how to make it reliable?

[LunaKage]

Thanks for the answers. Another question. In training mode, I notice that 2C / 5C > 3C on crouchers doesnt always combo. (eg. 2A > B > C > 5C > 3C on croucher). I can't tell what makes it fail, it doesnt seem to be timing (ive seen it fail on a buffered gatling) or distance (ive seen it work at long distance and fail at various distances.) Can anyone give a clue as to why that happens and how to make it reliable?

I've never had this problem but a theory:

certain characters may push you pretty far away depending on how far away you already were, and that could cause it to drop, I can't really say for sure, but it's a possibility. I would have to say that it's because of distance though, because close range it will always combo, unless you did crazy and unneeded rapid cancels and such, but that isn't the issue here lol

[zeech]

I've never had this problem but a theory:

certain characters may push you pretty far away depending on how far away you already were, and that could cause it to drop, I can't really say for sure, but it's a possibility. I would have to say that it's because of distance though, because close range it will always combo, unless you did crazy and unneeded rapid cancels and such, but that isn't the issue here lol

Hmm, well if it never happens to you maybe I am just failing in some odd way. My problem is not character dependent, I can train vs. Ragna and about 1/10 times it will be blockable. Even something as simple as 2B > 2C (2) > 5C > 3C.

[LunaKage]

Hmm, well if it never happens to you maybe I am just failing in some odd way. My problem is not character dependent, I can train vs. Ragna and about 1/10 times it will be blockable. Even something as simple as 2B > 2C (2) > 5C > 3C.

It's gotta be range then, unless you're hammering on 5A first, like 5AAAAAA > 2B > 2C > 5C > 3C, I don't know if that would work at all lol

[Halcyone3]

range should not be an issue in 5C->3C, if 5C hit, 3C will be perfectly in range to hit, and if i remember correctly, its whole active hitbox comes on at the same time, so its not like the farther range of the move hits later.

The only 2 things that would make it miss are:

-Timing, obviously.

-Proration, i personally have not tested around for this, but enough 2A/5A/2B/etc before 5C->3C could make it not combo due to reduced hitstun.

If you test it against the same character, with the exact same starting moves leading to 5C->3C, and get mixed results, then its definately the timing.

[LunaKage]

that's what confused me about his problem too.

I've done proration tests before, but normally I actually need a rapid cancel in order to prorate the string badly enough that 5C > 3C doesn't work.