Nini Heart Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 LK, how do you block properly? Do you react or do you anticipate overheads/lows? I try reacting but it's not really working out....
IburntTheToast Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 they should make cod4 and halo 2 on 1 disk and sell it... id buy it
Lord Knight Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 LK, how do you block properly? Do you react or do you anticipate overheads/lows? I try reacting but it's not really working out.... Depends. It really helps if you know how the character can go into their highs and lows (everyone knows Litchi 5B > 6A, etc). On netplay if the connection is bad I have to guess a lot, so it helps if you memorized someone's style. Reacting should be the primary way to go, but keep in mind if you only react, you'll lose to stuff that is designed to fuck with your reactions.
KayEff Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 they should make cod4 and halo 2 on 1 disk and sell it... id buy it get the fuck out of here
Sophisticat Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 I am still on the grey zone about safe jumping here... ^^;; playing hakumen, ex: j.2c >< C ID = lose hotaru >< C ID = clash(both full body invul) ????safe jump? Do deep j2C > barrier, and you should block it. I'll add: Do j.D after Hotaru clashes to catch the ID. C ID is two hits, so it will beat out Hotaru. However, Hotaru can cancel into j.D after the clash. It will catch the ID's second hit. If you can do j.D -> 5c x2 combos, it's a great punish. You can do the same with j.2c if it clashes. If it doesn't, you eat eat ID because j.D would only catch the ID's first hit.
bbq sauce Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 At least in Litchi's case, if you late tech it resets the combo and she can relaunch, if you roll you get caught, and if you just neutral tech, she gets the meaty. If you do a reversal, land FD.At least in Litchi's case, if you late tech it resets the combo and she can relaunch, if you roll you get caught, and if you just neutral tech, she gets the meaty. If you do a reversal, land FD. Well, yeah, but, I meant in the grand scheme of things, it's not like GG or SF where a knock down anywhere on the screen can go into a safe jump.
Lord Knight Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 Thankfully in this game, there are other ways to safely continue pressure outside of knockdown. Of course pretty much anyone can kill the basic stuff in the corner.
_Sey Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Reacting should be the primary way to go, but keep in mind if you only react, you'll lose to stuff that is designed to fuck with your reactions. Would you mind giving some examples? I think I may have understood what you mean, but I'm not quite sure. Also, how do you go about learning blockstrings/frame traps of characters you don't play as/you hardly play against? Like, of course the starting point, as you said, would be to know how every character can go into their highs and lows, but how do you go from there? How do you go about learning every character's frame traps? Do you just learn by playing against them? Or you mostly read frame data and then test stuff in training mode? I mean, I'm sure that in every scene (that is not Japan) there are characters that are hardly used, so I guess it could be a problem learning how such characters work with noone playing them. I know this may sound kind of stupid, but I've found pretty much no info whatsoever on some characters' blockstrings/frame traps on DL (plus I don't know japanese, so navigating through JBBS is pretty difficult).
Lord Knight Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 Would you mind giving some examples? I think I may have understood what you mean, but I'm not quite sure. Also, how do you go about learning blockstrings/frame traps of characters you don't play as/you hardly play against? Like, of course the starting point, as you said, would be to know how every character can go into their highs and lows, but how do you go from there? How do you go about learning every character's frame traps? Do you just learn by playing against them? Or you mostly read frame data and then test stuff in training mode? I mean, I'm sure that in every scene (that is not Japan) there are characters that are hardly used, so I guess it could be a problem learning how such characters work with noone playing them. I know this may sound kind of stupid, but I've found pretty much no info whatsoever on some characters' blockstrings/frame traps on DL (plus I don't know japanese, so navigating through JBBS is pretty difficult). Easy example - with Hazama, everyone thinks they can easily block his high/low from stance, despite them both being 19F. So, to hit people with the low, people will do 214D. . .C. Slight pauses (usually the cue for an overhead) is an easy way to mess with people's reactions. People like Bang also have this in 6A. As far as learning blockstrings/frame traps for characters you don't play as or against, that's also easy - watch vids. Preferably vids with a lot of views (stuff like Gamechariot always gets a ton of views). See what kind of stuff they are using, and what their opponent is doing to stop it (or notice they are losing to it). Then try to replicate it in training mode and see what they can do. Of course you should handle matches you'll definitely be playing all the time first. Then, even though you haven't played against the character, you'll be ready for what they have, and it'll take you less time to adjust to seeing it.
rei-Scarred Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Do you feel gadget finger is legitimately 50-50 or in the opponent's favor? Does Litchi have something to beat almost every option Tager has in that situation? Who do you think got nerfed harder, Bang or Litchi?
Koopa_Klawz Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 how do you think they can buff tager without going overboard?
Osuna Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Do you feel gadget finger is legitimately 50-50 or in the opponent's favor? Does Litchi have something to beat almost every option Tager has in that situation? Who do you think got nerfed harder, Bang or Litchi?It's not a 50/50 with most of the cast. The only person I know who you ca deal with all of their options using 2 moves is arakune without meter, and he can full life combo you without curse if you guess wrong, so I still say that is in his favor. GF with no meter is usually at least 3 or 4 options for both players and if you pick any option except the exact one tager tries to counter you usually get a combo. At worst you get into zoning distance again. It is quite bad.
Lord Knight Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) Do you feel gadget finger is legitimately 50-50 or in the opponent's favor? Does Litchi have something to beat almost every option Tager has in that situation? Who do you think got nerfed harder, Bang or Litchi? It's not 50/50, but I think Tager can control options after it somewhat well. . . However, it isn't a totally favorable situation for him. At least, from my perspective, I like being able to control the situation (like with Daisharin, there isn't many reasons to not do it). However with Gadget (outside of some tricks), I feel like there's too much randomness that can happen :/. If you think about tourney format, you only get like max 3 games to enforce your style on them, so first you have to get them to not try to diss Gadget - this is hard enough right? Thinking about single game/single elim, Gadget is fine. His corner knockdown is great, imo. Bang got nerfed, Litchi got changed - if you know what I mean. Anyone who was riding Litchi's power in CS1 is fucked pretty much - she's still a strong character. Bang looks all right to me. how do you think they can buff tager without going overboard? Give him more point blank options, and they are doing a good job with it. He's hard to make a fair character imo, so they are treading carefully. BE6A was a good addition. Edited February 3, 2011 by Lord Knight
Dacidbro Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 IMO they both got nerfed, but neither one very hard. IMHO Litchi got hit harder than Bang, but Bang needs more development. They both look really good. IMO
Lord Knight Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 I don't wanna get into it too much here, but Litchi being able to corner carry almost all hits again makes her stronger. Bang has that sweet airdash combo on standers though.
Nakkiel Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Give him more point blank options, and they are doing a good job with it. He's hard to make a fair character imo, so they are treading carefully. BE6A was a good addition. Would you agree with him needing better mobility? (i.e. a double jump)
TD Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 She can corner carry again? I thought with staff her corner carry in cs2 was weak, unless you're talking about staffless. Is there something new, or something that I'm missing?
Lord Knight Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 There's new stuff. Never ever ever give Tager a double jump, lollll
Nobus3r1 Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 It's not 50/50, but I think Tager can control options after it somewhat well. . . However, it isn't a totally favorable situation for him. At least, from my perspective, I like being able to control the situation (like with Daisharin, there isn't many reasons to not do it). However with Gadget (outside of some tricks), I feel like there's too much randomness that can happen :/. If you think about tourney format, you only get like max 3 games to enforce your style on them, so first you have to get them to not try to diss Gadget - this is hard enough right? I thought if Litchi just wanted out of Gadget Finger shenz that jump back B beat all of Tagers options in that obviously ground options whiff and it beats out 6A and Collider. Or am I smoking crack here? Not that Litchi has really anything to worry about from Tager post Gadget anyway.
Nakkiel Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 I thought if Litchi just wanted out of Gadget Finger shenz that jump back B beat all of Tagers options in that obviously ground options whiff and it beats out 6A and Collider. Or am I smoking crack here? Not that Litchi has really anything to worry about from Tager post Gadget anyway. 5A will beat jump back j.B. 5A CH 5C etc.
shtkn Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Would you agree with him needing better mobility? (i.e. a double jump) i think he should get a double jump...
choysauce Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Hello LK, Thanks so much for providing your musings and contributions to the community, we need more strong players like yourself to help out to make this community to grow. speaking of strong players. in my area i have the good fortune and privelage to be near alot of strong players. when seshing with a player who is obviously levels above you, what is the most beneficial thing to take from that ass beating besides asking for advice? is there anything i should try to notice/learn, in game, while playing them? is there a process i can follow to improve more effectively in between sessions? side question: is there a thread that lists general techniques/option selects. such has chicken blocking, OS barrier/throw tech, and canceling landing frames with barrier. (i never knew about the landing thing until today after reading through this thread)
Airk Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 When getting schooled by someone better than me, I find it helpful to try to isolate one thing that was screwing me over during the match. Whether that be reversal DPs, trouble getting around zoning, not anti-airing effectively, always getting hit by a certain attack/mixup, etc. Then focus on fixing that ONE aspect of your game. Figure out how to bait those reversals, figure out what tricks you have to get inside that zoning, practice your anti-airs, learn to block that mixup, whatever. You'll still lose the next time you fight them, most likely, but you'll be beating that one 'trick' and the match will be different and you can find a new area to improve. Repeat until you start to win.
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