Guardian Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 It was awesome playing you at FR LK. If anyone posts the vids of our matches, please let me know, as I'd like to avoid making those dumb mistakes again.
rei-Scarred Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah I'd really like to see some BB videos from Final Round as well. Hope they turn up.
Astaroth136 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Not to beat a dead horse, but same here. I'd like to see those matches. I also wanna hear how LK commentated my matches.
Lord Knight Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 lk l know this is quite late (and l know you helped me there ._. ) but if you remember, can you tell me how shitty l was what l need to change since we played irl? l know your bang notes are continuing to help me but l find that l cant apply alot of things l practice in actual matches and then l get blown up hard. (maybe thats just reaction time ) is it ok if l steal some of your matchup stuff? alot of the defensive options litchi has seeme to work for mu also. "Steal", lol. Most of the strategy I use, I haven't developed on my own. Really though, just focus on trying to apply new tech until you get used to looking for it all the time. Like I said at WB, it's hard vs Bang because a lot of answers to his stuff are really specific, and he has tons of options that won't exactly lead into what you're looking for. LK what do you think about switching mains? I wanna switch but whenever I lose, I'm like "man, I could body this guy for free or at least go even with him if I was playing Makoto". And then I pick Makoto. And the process just repeats itself. I guess what I'm really asking is how you do you go about switching mains? How long do you think it takes to achieve main status with a secondary character? Who would you switch to anyway, Noel? I did have to go through this in MB. Even though your situation was different than mine (I switched characters so that I could care more about the game and learn it, because MBAA=/=MBAC), the same method should work. . . Which is not to switch back to your original character ever, even if you're losing. It takes time to bring your new character to the level of your original character. Treat it like learning stick - just avoid playing your old main no matter what (if you're serious about it). On the subject of FR vids - to be honest, they'll probably only upload MVC3/Super, and then leave the rest of the stuff for the DVD. The exhibition stuff was recorded with ShakyCam .
Astaroth136 Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 Yeah, we were completely separate from the Spooky stream Friday night, so I figured the guy who was doing it could archive it. Kyle said something to me about it taking a while, but that it would be up. He seemed to know a bit about.
Rhiya Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 If someone was even considering going to a major, what'd you suggest they do in terms of planning, etc., both gameplay-wise and non-gameplay-wise? Also, what made you choose to switch charas entirely in MB, rather than switch to a more viable moon for VAkiha?
Lord Knight Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 They don't release the DVD until the next FR. If someone was even considering going to a major, what'd you suggest they do in terms of planning, etc., both gameplay-wise and non-gameplay-wise? Also, what made you choose to switch charas entirely in MB, rather than switch to a more viable moon for VAkiha? Preparing for tournaments varies depending on skill level. Optimally, you want to be prepared for every character in the game. It'll help if you have a trick/gimmick that you can whip out if you need some comeback factor. This stuff all comes with playing the game and practice. Outside of tourney, main thing that bothers people is tourney nerves. Personally, since I've played a lot, even when I get nervous I retain my confidence. Positive imagery and positive thinking help me out too (I can always win etc). Positive imagery, I think of times I've done cool stuff to win, hit tough combos, won tournaments, reverse OCVs. . . the more good things you've done in tourney, the better and larger your archive (if you will) will be - it helps me a lot. When you get there, just play whoever. Play the people you're scared of as well, but don't use whatever tricks/gimmicks you have against them. If you win comfortably, you have nothing to worry about (maybe). I switched to Kohaku in MB so that I could actually focus on MBAA's new systems. Learning a new character meant I had to learn everything all over again, which made me play a lot more. I guess I could say I was overconfident in my VAkiha cause of my MBAC experience, but the two games (and VAkiha in between those games) were very different. Also, I didn't like the route they took with VAkiha. Kohaku had cool combos, so that was my other motivation to switch.
NerdJosh Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 LK what should I look for when purchasing sunglasses? I hear you're a master in the field of shades.
Brice Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 LK, how can I stop being salty? you play against me and dump your salt on me :D
Nini Heart Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 you play against me and dump your salt on me :D I was asking it for you actually
Lord Knight Posted March 28, 2011 Author Posted March 28, 2011 LK, how can I stop being salty? Can't win them all.
Nini Heart Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 On a more serious note, i've been having some issues with IBing. I can IB stuff fine, but I don't know where the gaps are to 5A. I don't know how gatlings affect frame data either so I can't rely on that either. For example vs Bang. 5A>2A>2A>5B. I i.b everything and mash 2A and still get CH'd. If I don't mash anything, the fact that i'm IBing means there is very little pushback so he can continue pressuring me. This brings me to my questions, are there situations where IBing is not the optimal blocking option? Is it possible to Barrier I.B? Is there anyway outside of training mode to determine which blockstrings can be IB> interrupted?
FlyingVe Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Compare the attack level to the start up of the move being gattling'd into. Then factor in IB, if there's a 5 frame gap, Mak's 5A will fit. I think it's that simple, barring other factors.
mAc Chaos Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 If you try to 2A and get CH that means there was enough of a gap to try and do a move but not enough for 2A to come out. So do IB > DP instead in that situation. Of course then you could get baited...
Rhiya Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 On a more serious note, i've been having some issues with IBing. I can IB stuff fine, but I don't know where the gaps are to 5A. I don't know how gatlings affect frame data either so I can't rely on that either. For example vs Bang. 5A>2A>2A>5B. I i.b everything and mash 2A and still get CH'd. If I don't mash anything, the fact that i'm IBing means there is very little pushback so he can continue pressuring me. This brings me to my questions, are there situations where IBing is not the optimal blocking option? Is it possible to Barrier I.B? Is there anyway outside of training mode to determine which blockstrings can be IB> interrupted? http://www.dustloop.com/forums/content.php?104-Reading-and-Using-Frame-Data-Part-1
Lord Knight Posted March 28, 2011 Author Posted March 28, 2011 On a more serious note, i've been having some issues with IBing. I can IB stuff fine, but I don't know where the gaps are to 5A. I don't know how gatlings affect frame data either so I can't rely on that either. For example vs Bang. 5A>2A>2A>5B. I i.b everything and mash 2A and still get CH'd. If I don't mash anything, the fact that i'm IBing means there is very little pushback so he can continue pressuring me. This brings me to my questions, are there situations where IBing is not the optimal blocking option? Is it possible to Barrier I.B? Is there anyway outside of training mode to determine which blockstrings can be IB> interrupted? Thankfully most people already found gaps. You need knowledge about the character's gatlings in the first place. . . Like in Bang's case - that's why he's so good in the first place. He has barely any gaps in pressure, even if you IB stuff. For example, if you IB Bang's 5A, you're creating a gap that wasn't there before. Vs 5A > don't ib, just hit 2A. 5A > 2A, no gap, 5A > 5B, no gap, 5A > 6A, gap, 5A > 5C, gap, 5A > 2B gap and you'll be punished . . . but basically given the amount of options, there's only a small chance that he'll do it anyways. 2A > 2A, ib, there's a gap. If you have a reversal, it's free. VS 5B - IB 5B, hit 2A, 5B > 2B no gap (even with IB loll), 5B > 2C no gap, 5B > 5C gap, 5C > 6A gap, 5B > 5A (as in 5B let it recover 5A) obviously a gap
Airk Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 So I know DT already linked to the excellent "How to use frame data" article, but that's a pretty big wall of text and it doesn't actually explain how gatlings work, either. Here's my distillation of how to check for gaps in block strings. (Note: You'll need more than the frame data. You'll also need the Attack Level data from the System Guide.) First, look at the frame data for the first attack. Observe what Level it is, and how many active frames it has. Now look up that attack level in the Attack Level data - the line you care about is the Blockstun line. Now, subtract the number of active frames of the attack-1 from that. You subtract the active frames because you can't gatling out of an attack until it goes into recovery frames - any remaining active frames still need to animate. So if you're looking at Bang's 5A, subtract 3-1=2 from the level 1 attack blockstun of 11 frames - leaving you with 9. That means any attack with 9 startup frames or less will hit you before you leave blockstun. If you are instant blocking, you just reduce the blockstun from the attack level data by 5. Of course, in order to DO anything with a gap, that gap needs to be bigger than the attack you are trying to squeeze into it - I assume, though do not know, that Makoto has a 5 frame jab. This means that you need to have at least 5, preferably 6 frames between the end of blockstun and the first active frame of the next attack... so IBing 5A>2A gets you nowhere. If you IB this and try to counter: 11 frames, -5 for IB, -2 for active frames, you have 4 frames left. The startup on 2A is 8, so you have enough time to start your 5 frame jab, but 4 frames later, Bang punches you in the foot and gets a counterhit. On the OTHER hand though, 2A is a level ZERO attack, so the math THERE is: 9 frames of blockstun, -5 for IB, -2 for active frames, leaving only 2 frames of blockstun left once he cancels, if he tries to go into another 2A, which is 8 frames of startup... well, 6 frame gap is enough to jab him out. Other things to consider: Frame 1 invulnerable moves. If you have a move that is frame 1 invulnerable, all you need is a 1 frame gap - enough to start up your invulnerable move. Then, even though you would technically have been counterhit (Like in the 5A>2A example above) the attack that would have counterhit you goes right through you, since you're invulnerable, and then when your attack becomes active, you hit. This is why frame 1 invulnerable reversals are powerful. Goofy stuff in the frame data; If you look at, say, Bang's 5B, you'll notice it has a bunch of notes in the frame data. First, it gives 17F of blockstun. That overrides the value from the attack level data, so use that instead of the usual 13F for a level 2 attack. 2nd, it has a special Hitstop value. Normally, hitstop for the attacker and the defender is equal, but for some attacks (for reasons that, truthfully, I don't understand) the frame data sets custom hit stop, where one person gets more than the other. You need to account for that difference too, so 5B effectively has 19 frames of blockstun, since it has 17 "real" frames of blockstun, AND two frames of "mismatched hitstop". x.x Okay. Maybe this wasn't any less of a wall of text than the link DT provided, but it's more specific to gatlings and blockstrings. Clear as mud, right?
Nini Heart Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Ok. So I have to go into training mode. Got it, thanks.
huey253 Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 On a more serious note, i've been having some issues with IBing. I can IB stuff fine, but I don't know where the gaps are to 5A. I don't know how gatlings affect frame data either so I can't rely on that either. For example vs Bang. 5A>2A>2A>5B. I i.b everything and mash 2A and still get CH'd. If I don't mash anything, the fact that i'm IBing means there is very little pushback so he can continue pressuring me. This brings me to my questions, are there situations where IBing is not the optimal blocking option? Is it possible to Barrier I.B? Is there anyway outside of training mode to determine which blockstrings can be IB> interrupted? its actually easier to mash out bang if you don't iB. sounds like a joke but its actually true. lets say you are mashing 2A if bang does 5A 5B, nothing happens because of no gap if bang does 5A 2A, nothing happens because of no gap if bang tries to stagger 5A 5A you'll get a CH because the gap is atleast 7 frames if bang does 5A 2B you'll get bodied by the frame trap if he does 5A 6A you'll get a CH because there is a big gap if he does 5A 5C you'll get a CH because there is a big gap if he does 5A 6B you'll get a CH because there is a big gap if you ib 5A then try to mash you'll end up creating a gap and then getting CH. the reason this doesn't affect other characters is because bang cannot late chain out of his normals (only character in BB who can't for the majority of his normals) (other than 5B and 2C (only to supercrash from 2C)) never mash after 5B. never...
WolfCrimson Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 the reason this doesn't affect other characters is because bang cannot late chain out of his normals (only character in BB who can't for the majority of his normals) (other than 5B and 2C (only to supercrash from 2C)) It's a good thing he can't.
huey253 Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 imagine how much stronger he would be with it :P i'm pretty sure most people didn't know about this, so now they can use that SMART mash. rather than randomly ibing and hitting buttons :3 (bang's job)
Nini Heart Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Well I just learned how to I.B>PF/DP so i'm good now. Fuck mashing 2A.
TD Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 lk, if l post one of my old vids up here will you critique it? it might be outdated but l want to know what the heck im supposed to be looking for from both me and my opponent which, quite frankly, is hard when l have to also watch steins, pumpkins, poles, frogs, and wind (and everything else). its overwhelming sometimes x.x idk if you've ever played zoners before BUT l trust that you'll know what youre talking about.
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