Nini Heart Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 I found Sirlin when I started SF4 and was maining Sakura. I switched to Sagat and Viper after that, and I have not played any character below high tier since then. Except makoto of course. And lol CT rachel looks fucken retarded
Lord Knight Posted April 4, 2011 Author Posted April 4, 2011 its not that l cant, its more like you just giving me an example on how l should look at things. l usually review matches like "ok, l did this fullscreen. l my footsies wasnt so great. his pressure was scary." ...yea ._. ok, heres one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Na3tMRwMbc its when l first started out but its like the only vid with me vs a litchi. more recently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29pmDUbcSHI this day wasnt kind to me. l was on autopilot the entire time. if you see any random ib's and then a CH... yeah l was mashing. anyway ignore all the netplay stuff (which might be hard...) mu starts around 12:00 thx :3 Your play seemed unexpectedly wild and unfocused. It really showed when you were playing as Litchi. . . For a character like Mu, I think that's ok. It's obvious - she has big normals that are active for a long time. Right now you play all your characters pretty much the same way (just basing it on the footage). That doesn't work too well. You like picking high risk options too much when most of your chars don't get that good reward for it. I guess you could argue that if you're a zoner, just getting control back is enough of reward to warrant the risk, but I feel like you have to judge it based on character. Example, I think you used quick get up way too much vs Bang. You rolled out of the corner against Daisharin (in tourney no less). Why? I definitely feel like against lower and mid-level Litchi's, they'll definitely stick with just a couple of safe Daisharin setups. You had 50 meter, you could've easily just neutral teched and just waited for a chance to CA. Considering that Mu's damage off random hits is average at best, it's definitely best to minimize damage taken. . . I feel like you let yourself get hit by a lot of stuff that you shouldn't. This happened, lol. Well no, I slowly gravitated towards Tager. I love him to death. I still pick Bang on occasion, but I pretty much have no idea what I'm doing with CS Bang. Nothing from CT seems to translate. Anyway, a problem I've seen in myself is that I hover back and forth between being too hesitant and too reckless. I can block per se, but I try to stick a move out and most of the time I'll end up eating a combo. That isn't exclusive to Tager, either... I could be playing Bang and just sitting back instead of mashing dat 5A or whatever CS Bang does. Or I'll try to dash in and get blown up. I dunno. May I add you, Tempest? I know you're a much better player than I am. That's rather vague. You should find out what kind of stuff the characters can do and see what Tager can do about it - definitely capitalize on anything you can punish all the time. After, find out if there's any Tager specific things for matchups that you have to worry about. Start with characters you play against a lot, then work your way down.
TD Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Yeah I pretty much play everyone the same way. I know enough to not do the things I do (hell, I spend HOURS practicing each day, even now.) its just really, really hard to apply these things in a match. My impulse to look flashy or even the score takes over to the point where I'm literally trying to do combo videos on a good player .-. And a lot of people have told me to just keep it simple and stick to the basics... I find that harder to do when I know that the optimal combo not only looks better, but it makes me feel like I did something right lol. But so does winning, so ill definitely be practicing how to be more efficient in my play so I don't look so unorganized and scrubby :p Thank you.
Lord Knight Posted April 4, 2011 Author Posted April 4, 2011 It's fine to do optimal stuff, the main thing I thought was lacking was your decision making on defense. Like it's fine to press buttons or do a risky things. A risky thing looks smart if it works. I just think you took risks in places where it's too heavily skewed against you too many times.
TD Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Yeah my defense is pretty ass (unless I'm high lol). I'm afraid of showing the opponent too much respect. Like, I play this really good ragna player who bases all his decisions on how well I respect him. When I don't respect I constantly get ch'd out of incredibly stupid shit (setting 2 Steins right in front of him Wtf). When I do his mixup is too gdlk. I understand though that its not about how much respect I give, its when to give it (which comes with general defense and match knowledge of course). So... I need to work on controlling myself and upping my defense? Oh yeah, and this fucking autopilot HAS TO STOP D: I got a long night ahead of me >.<
Sophisticat Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 LK, am I playing the matchup right? v. Vice-Taicho (LI) I need to improve so you don't steamroll us come Easter.
huey253 Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 LK, am I playing the matchup right? v. Vice-Taicho (LI) I need to improve so you don't steamroll us come Easter. not to take anything from lk, but i think you should also ask Spark/sG since they play that matchup alot too. i don't know if lk has a hakumen he plays againist regularly :3
Sophisticat Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Spark hasn't replied to my vid in the Haku vid critique forum yet... If he ever intends to. I suppose I should poke him or something. :P
kirbster Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 About the strong/weak character discussion, I think both Nini and Mac make valid points. Let's say I pick Rachel against a good Litchi. Obviously, I'm entering an uphill battle and it's gonna be really hard to win. No doubt about that. But if my goal is really to win, why the hell did I pick her in the first place? There's playing for fun and playing to win. Obviously we're playing this game for fun regardless of win or loss, but in a competitive environment, if you pick a bad character and want to win, you're simply not being intelligent. That's the sad part though, cuz I feel Rachel is the most fun character to play in this game, and Brice (the top Montreal Tager player) feels the same way about his character. Same goes for Noel and Tsubaki mains, I believe. But if you're good/smart enough to learn how to play your character competently, then you should be smart enough to realize you don't bring a knife to a gunfight and expect to do well. So in the end it really comes down to how much you want to win. I haven't picked Rachel once against Nini during our last meetup, I used characters that I haven't put as much effort into as Rachel, yet I did better than usual. I know that I have no choice if I want to keep up with him >.< and for the record Sophis, I think he's a better player than me.
Andru Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 That's why in a lot of games you see top players who choose to play a mid or lower tier character have a sub or backup character to cover a bad matchup of their main in tournies that aren't character lock.
Nini Heart Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 That's why in a lot of games you see top players who choose to play a mid or lower tier character have a sub or backup character to cover a bad matchup of their main in tournies that aren't character lock. This is true, but what I see more is top players picking top characters to make sure they don't have bad match ups. @Kirb: You're too modest. Also, preach brutha, preach the wisdom.
LunaKage Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 About the strong/weak character discussion, I think both Nini and Mac make valid points. Let's say I pick Rachel against a good Litchi. Obviously, I'm entering an uphill battle and it's gonna be really hard to win. No doubt about that. But if my goal is really to win, why the hell did I pick her in the first place? There's playing for fun and playing to win. Obviously we're playing this game for fun regardless of win or loss, but in a competitive environment, if you pick a bad character and want to win, you're simply not being intelligent. That's the sad part though, cuz I feel Rachel is the most fun character to play in this game, and Brice (the top Montreal Tager player) feels the same way about his character. Same goes for Noel and Tsubaki mains, I believe. But if you're good/smart enough to learn how to play your character competently, then you should be smart enough to realize you don't bring a knife to a gunfight and expect to do well. So in the end it really comes down to how much you want to win. I haven't picked Rachel once against Nini during our last meetup, I used characters that I haven't put as much effort into as Rachel, yet I did better than usual. I know that I have no choice if I want to keep up with him >.< and for the record Sophis, I think he's a better player than me. I don't want to seriously learn any character other than Noel, so when I enter a tourney with her, I don't expect to win, I want to see how far I can get with my shitty character, so that I can hype myself up when she becomes legit again. Only two tourneys I went to I placed 4th and 7th respectively.
Brice Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 I don't want to seriously learn any character other than Noel, so when I enter a tourney with her, I don't expect to win, I want to see how far I can get with my shitty character, so that I can hype myself up when she becomes legit again. Only two tourneys I went to I placed 4th and 7th respectively. oh i'd like so much to be able to think like that... ok my character is getting supposedly way better, but.... i'll still be playing bottom (since last time i checked), but as you are saying, i play to see where i can go (and get cocky if i beat a bang or w/e good characters i play against, and if i lose i'll be salty, but i'll never be truly salty about losing in a FG...) and to add to the convoersation about who's a better player, i'll say that nini has godlike execution and absurd reaction, but i do think that kirbster is more strategic and get a lot more thinking going when he plays. but that's only my perception :P
Rhiya Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Isn't there already a discussion ITT of why good players tend to play good characters?
Sophisticat Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 ^ Yes, it revolves around the idea that you'll generally pick a character because they fit your playing style. For example, let's say you like rushdown. Then Ragna comes to mind. But then let's say you don't like his high-risk style. Then there's a chance you'll gravitate to Bang since he's got safer offensive tools. Stuff like that. I play Haku because I like his character design and my personality is aligned with his. He has plenty of tools to work with and hits hard if you want him to. I don't mind being zoned too much since I'm perfectly comfortable with his effective range. So... I play Haku. :P
Halcyone3 Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Isn't there already a discussion ITT of why good players tend to play good characters? because they yield the best chances to get that prize money?
A.X.I.S. Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 I play Tager because...I seriously don't know why. I pick Ragna when I have to fight hard match ups like Arakune and Litchi. (some cases.)
FlyingVe Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Apparently I play only mechanical (or partly mechanical) characters... BB: Rag, Tager, Mu MvC: Tron, Sent, Spencer, Iron Man, (and many more) SSBM: Samus SSF4: Juri Okay, serious question. With CS2 about to some around the corner, we'll get another good shot at revamping the matchup sections of DL. You have said several times before that the matchups sections on the site are a bit lacking and I agree. Personally, I think they could stand to be alot less broad and more specific, but I wanted to know. As one of the more experienced players (and writer of excellent Litchi matchup details), what kind of things should a player be looking for in matchups, and what would be the best way to improve the matchup stuff when CS2 does finally roll around?
Rhiya Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 because they yield the best chances to get that prize money? It was more like with worse charas you get these moments where it's like "How do I deal with situation X against character Y?" "Oh. I can't." And they're just frustrating as hell.
TD Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 throwing your money away. thats how l felt with cs rachel. so what if l know her well, its only going to end badly for me in the competitive scene. there are... limitations.
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