Lord Knight Posted April 2, 2011 Author Posted April 2, 2011 You can. Although, I feel like you're at the level where you should see your own problems to be honest.
TD Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 its not that l cant, its more like you just giving me an example on how l should look at things. l usually review matches like "ok, l did this fullscreen. l my footsies wasnt so great. his pressure was scary." ...yea ._. ok, heres one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Na3tMRwMbc its when l first started out but its like the only vid with me vs a litchi. more recently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29pmDUbcSHI this day wasnt kind to me. l was on autopilot the entire time. if you see any random ib's and then a CH... yeah l was mashing. anyway ignore all the netplay stuff (which might be hard...) mu starts around 12:00 thx :3
Mucky Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 What should I do if I feel like I've hit a plateau with Tager?
Rhiya Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 Is this a "I'm not getting better at playing as Tager" plateau or a "I'm not getting better BECAUSE I'm playing Tager" plateau? That's kinda important.
Mucky Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 If I meant the latter then the answer would be "pick top tier and be gdlk", but my question has nothing to do with any characters beside Tager. The former, at any rate.
Nini Heart Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 What should I do if I feel like I've hit a plateau with Tager? Switch characters. Tager can only do so much. The better the people you play get, the less you win with Tager. No seriously, Montreal's top player used to be a Tager, then people started knowing how to play match ups properly(AKA super lame) and he stopped winning. He's a good player but there's only so much a character with very limited options can do.
capsuletoyco Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 tager players have to play A LOT!!!!! smarter than most other players. it's not impossible to win and be amazing with him.
Nini Heart Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 SomeA lot of match ups can only be won through mistakes of the other player if he knows the right way to play the match-up. It's not impossible to win, but when you play people who make few to no mistakes and know the match up well, your chances of winning with Tager are veryyyy slim.
mAc Chaos Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 He's not talking about winning more, though. He's talking about being a better player. Those are two different things.
TD Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 the only way to get better is to play better people. too bad 'better people' is extremely scarce in bb nowadays if youre playing on or offline ._. but they are right, even the best tagers are subject to being lamed out. sometimes your character IS the one holding you back... *glares at mu*
Nini Heart Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 He's not talking about winning more, though. He's talking about being a better player. Those are two different things. They go together though. It goes without saying that a good/better player wins more than one who's worse. Wins(or how close they get to one) are pretty much the only way to determine whether or not someone is getting good/better. You can believe you're better than someone, but if you're losing to this person, then you're fooling yourself. And using the excuse about tiers/character blablabla is not legit if you ask me. This isn't japan, you're allowed to counterpick or switch characters. If you don't wanna, then YOU are the one holding yourself back.
LunaKage Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 the only way to get better is to play better people. too bad 'better people' is extremely scarce in bb nowadays if youre playing on or offline ._. but they are right, even the best tagers are subject to being lamed out. sometimes your character IS the one holding you back... *glares at mu* I don't wanna hear it, I should be the one glaring at Mu. If you wanna get better as a Tager player, you should practice being godlike at defense, Tager gets most if not all of his damage from his opponent's mistakes, unless his opponent is Noel.
Sophisticat Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 If you feel the character you're using is holding you back, switch characters. I will however disagree that a better player will necessarily always outclass someone not quite as skilled, though using a better character. Better characters can make up for the mistakes you make as a player. I've played quite a few Litchis, but good or bad, they are all a pain to deal with simply because of the nature of the character. And Nini, JF is pretty much on your level as a player, but he's very unlikely to win simply because he uses Rachel. I'm pretty sure he's going to fare a lot better against you once CS2 rolls out.
mAc Chaos Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) They go together though. It goes without saying that a good/better player wins more than one who's worse. Wins(or how close they get to one) are pretty much the only way to determine whether or not someone is getting good/better. You can believe you're better than someone, but if you're losing to this person, then you're fooling yourself. And using the excuse about tiers/character blablabla is not legit if you ask me. This isn't japan, you're allowed to counterpick or switch characters. If you don't wanna, then YOU are the one holding yourself back. A good player should be able to figure out his mistakes and what he was doing right. You don't need winning to simply determine that; it's not like we're flying blind here and any possible move we make could be just as good or bad as another one and the only way to tell is if we win the match when we do it. It's also pretty hard to nail down what specifically may have caused you to win since there's so much stuff going on in each round. If you want to determine who the better player is all you have to do is look at how they play. Whether they win or not is a different story. I'm sure everybody's experienced situations where someone playing dumb or braindead managed to win over you just because their character gave them the power to do that. That doesn't mean their win was illegitimate, but you can still tell from how they were playing how much of their win was from their character and how much was from their own approach. Besides, switching characters is just dodging the issue. You're not making YOURSELF better by doing that, you're just using a better character. It's possible to still improve your game doing that but that's not what is making you a better player. If anything, just switching will make it harder to determine if you're playing bad since you can get away with a lot more mistakes. If someone asks, "How do I become a better driver," you don't tell them "get a better car." I'm pretty sure if you were running red lights and almost plowing through trees with a beat up minivan that it wouldn't magically go away once you started driving a ferrari. Now if you just wanted to win races, then getting one would be a good start. Edited April 4, 2011 by mAc Chaos
Nini Heart Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) zzzz. I'm not trynna be mean, but it's a bit easy to blame losses on someone using a "better" character than you are. I have never seriously blamed a loss of mine on the person against whom I was playing against's character. A good player will be good with any character, and better with a good character. Picking a weak character is akin to handicapping yourself and pretty much giving yourself a fucking excuse. Boohoo, i'm Tager, I lost to a lambda/insert horrible match up, dumb game is dumb, i can't do anything the match up is ass. Well you fucking can. You can pick a better character, learn a counterpick for the bad match up(which of course takes some effort compared to just losing and complaining about the match up) and stop licking your wounds. When you lose with a good character, you can't blame the match up. You can only blame yourself and look at why you lost instead of blaming your character's lack of options. A lot of people indulge in their characters' weaknesses as if they're forced to play them. No, you're not forced to play a shitty character. If you're scared people are gonna call you names or you feel like you have to have "loyalty" to your character, then that's up to you. Don't blame your losses on something other than your moral code. And if people think they're better than you are, big fucking deal. I don't care if you're better than me. Point being, in a tournament, they will lose to this person who they think they're better than because they refused to play a better character, and that's that. That person will move on with their lives knowing they blew you the fuck up, and you'll still be stuck behind in much salt. @Mac: If they're trying to win a race with an old ass car when everyone has pimped out Lamborghinis, then they're just dumb. They might be the best driver there, but their car is holding them back. So you can believe you're the best driver, but you're not winning, you're not doing anything concrete, and in the end, you're accomplishing nothing. That's the whole fucking point i'm trynna make. There's a point where your character is the one holding you back. Then you get the lamborghini, get used to it, and start winning if your skills are as good as you believed they are. Look at it like this. What happens when you start fighting people of equal skill, but the play a much better character? You get blown up. If someone who is relatively good but has hit a wall because of their character's limit, I'm gonna tell them to switch it up. @Nolan: Yes J.F. is probably a better player than me. He's also a smart player and realized he's never gonna win against people of equal skill/near equal skill with CS Rachel and is learning better characters. Point in case. Edited April 4, 2011 by Nini Heart
TD Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 but then people scream TIERWHORES!!!!!! OMG A TIERWHORE!!!!!!! and its like... stfu.
Rhiya Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Nini, your argument would be relevant if the player hadn't just stated that he felt his problem was not that he was playing Tager. And it's not hard to feel when it's your chara that's screwing you.
Nini Heart Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 It wasn't aimed at Mucky. Just replying to some comments. Well, for a TAYGA PLAYA to get better, it's important to learn how to block properly(like luna said), stay calm(very important with annoying matches like Haz/Lambda, might not seem like much but it's harder said than done). Consistent I.Bing is also pretty much a must if you plan on being a competitive Tager. Knowing when and where in a blockstring you can I.B>360/720 also seems like it's very important. Also, learning gimmicks is good. Having a large arsenal of gimmicks makes your opponent feel like you actually have options. Ultimately, being unpredictable(random?) with Tager is key IMO. I get scared by Tagers who make me go like WTFF. Finally, don't hesitate to get videos of yourself and post em in the Tager critique thread to see which particular aspects of your game needs work. I can safely say that getting videos of myself, watching them and getting critiques from other players is one of the things that has helped me better myself.
LunaKage Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 I don't like any other character but Noel, so Nini's argument is irrelevant to me. derp.
A.X.I.S. Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Well from what I observe a lot of Tagers player problems stem from: Being incredibly gimmicky. Having poor defense. Not being patient. Having really bad habits. These all can be fixed with time IF you sit down and figure out what you did you wrong. Simple but not simple solutions are: Stop using gimmicks every time, if you are tempted to use 6C>j.D>land collider reset and you KNOW they will not tech or neutral tech and curb stomp you then don't do it. Defense is another thing to improve on...sadly I am not sure how I got this down, sorry. Patience is another thing that can be fixed just wait, you will always have your chance. Just block and advance forward, you got 99 seconds you will always have a chance, you only need one to win. Bad habits like ALWAYS mashing 720 when hit isn't something you should do, getting hit and churning butter is amazing though. Another thing thats bad is 5D>Bsledge, horrible string...5D by itself is enough. You can honestly throw it out and a lot of characters wouldn't know what to do. TL:DR. Stop being netplay. Oh and post can be so so wrong.
Mucky Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 didnt you play bang in ct? what happened x.x This happened, lol. Well no, I slowly gravitated towards Tager. I love him to death. I still pick Bang on occasion, but I pretty much have no idea what I'm doing with CS Bang. Nothing from CT seems to translate. Anyway, a problem I've seen in myself is that I hover back and forth between being too hesitant and too reckless. I can block per se, but I try to stick a move out and most of the time I'll end up eating a combo. That isn't exclusive to Tager, either... I could be playing Bang and just sitting back instead of mashing dat 5A or whatever CS Bang does. Or I'll try to dash in and get blown up. I dunno. May I add you, Tempest? I know you're a much better player than I am. @Nini, mAc, etc.: Staying out of that.
mAc Chaos Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) Nobody was blaming their character for their loss. <_> Nini you sound like you just found Sirlin. :P Nobody is talking about their characters holding them back, but just becoming a better player in general, regardless of what character you use. You know, the fundamentals. Just having solid basics. ie., how Tokido won with Bang without really knowing him. Someone just trying to justify their ass getting kicked by blaming your character is just a scrub. You should be able to tell the difference between that and someone who is legitimately good though and just gets owned because of an uphill battle. That doesn't mean they are going to blame others for it though. You just take it as part of your character. That also means there are some characters that have advantages over the rest of the cast, but it isn't somehow demeaning your own skill level by pointing out the power differences. Trying to pretend like it doesn't exist is not that different than trying to pretend it's all there is to it. Edited April 4, 2011 by mAc Chaos
A.X.I.S. Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 That flow charting CT Rachel, Yeaaah!<3 Nini probably just found Sirlin.
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