Nakkiel Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Fastest possible followups to stance (regarding high/low) both take 25f. If you can backdash on reaction, more power to you but I doubt that'll be happening considering neither of the followups have terribly obvious animations (neither does stance). The other benefit is stance is a special move, so either option can come after any special-cancelable normal. Hopefully I don't need to spell it out that saying "backdash" is not a consistent answer considering you're going to have to basically mash out backdash during is blockstrings making you vulnerable lows and not to mention most backdashes suck. It's really not hard to tag someone backdashing. And frame data wise, if backdashing works so well against Hazama, why not just backdash everyone's mixup?
Nini Heart Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Think of it this way. Haz has two overheads. One gatlings into nothing but supers, though it does admirable damage. The other is from stance, and stance is much more vulnerable to options for leaving pressure. You have a point about Haz having a command grab, obviously, but range, etc. Stance isn't as vulnerable as you might think. From close range(aka not doing it after 3C), the safest thing for an opponent is to block. Backdash(not all of them) gets blown up by the overhead or zaneiga on reaction, DP(if you have a good one) can clash with his, or will get you fataled on reaction if you have a shitty one, mashing will get you DPd on reaction, chicken block is safe but will allow the haz to continue pressure with the overhead on reaction once again. And he has two (official) overheads plus a command grab. His command grab is really good and has invuln and deceptively good range. It's not great damage wise but it nets you about 30 ish meter and 1.9k damage. IAD J.2C/J.B can be considered a ghetto overhead. Imo, you're seriously underrating his potential.
Rhiya Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 From what I'd guess, the reason backdash is good against stance is mainly because of ranges. Haz is generally pushed out before he uses stance, and non-awful backdashes should take you out of range alright Seriously, though, I think I just remember LK saying stance was vulnerable to backdash at some point and I'm tenaciously hanging onto my memory. Money is that he actually said 3c>stance and I'm being derp
Nini Heart Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 3C stance is basically giving up pressure unless you did a point blank 3C. Still, in some cases, 214D~A(2) can still catch some back dashes after 3C stance because it travels so damn far. But backdash is a good answer to mid/max range 3C stance.
Nakkiel Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) 3C -> stance is bad not only because of range but also because you can simply hit him out of A/C followups very easily, not just backdash. 5B -> stance and 5C -> stance are both very good routes Hazama can use to keep in range for it. Edited April 13, 2011 by sG
TD Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 anything from max range can be backdashed from any character. from point blank range, no one should be backdashing unless its a -specific - answer to the opponents next move. iirc not even tsu has backdash-able strings. the thing about a good hazama is that his pressure (from anywhere, really) is, in fact, intimidating. l myself choke on haz strings more than anyone in the game besides carl. you shouldnt be disrespecting hazama too often unless he's doing blatantly risky things. hell, 3c 236d catches backdashes and is safe for the most part. ln most instances, better to just ib and look for holes like jumping back in, 3c stance etc.
A.X.I.S. Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) Hazama is safe. His damage is from meh to great but his strongest point is how safe he is. It is frustrating regardless of character. Hazama will always be solid and that is the truth. Edit: OMG you guys keep up with dumb convo and Zidane is gonna run a troll truck on you all. Hazama can go into stance off a lot of his normals not to mention his normals are safe and have really good hitboxes. Not to mention when he lands a combo he gets a good deal of meter out of it. Hazama is lame only to Tager. Edited April 13, 2011 by A.X.I.S.
Rhiya Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 There's a reason I already admitted I was wrong, lol
TD Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 lk, in preparations for the revalations tourny sunday, can you tell me oooooooooone last time how to deal with bang and litchi as mu. l got all your pressure shitz down and l feel confidant l can block about 80% of bang's pressure. litchi l just know not to get hit. i've been cleaning up my act of autopilot too and im back to my old self - mostly. the thing is... l just dont know what the fuck to do with mu! day after day l try to play her differently - rtsd, zoning, trap, midrange - they all fall through. l just dont know her like l do rachel. not only that but mu requires this precise-ass playstyle that l cant grasp without getting blown the fuck up. like, alot. it's making my beautiful lion hair fall out. lf you know anything about what mu is about, plz tell me!!!!!
Zidane Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Uhhhhhh I only rush down in CS1 against any character that's not top 3 / Tager because there's nothing-to-little they could do to stop Hazama. I chill full screen against Litchi / Bang because that's the smartest and safest option Hazama has against those 2 There's no reason to rush down Tager with Hazama. Like, at all. Not even in a "i'm being funny!" way. Any wrong guess results in you eating unnecessary damage. Why do that when you could be at the opposite end of the screen hitting D and smiling? Hazama's mixup (in CS1) is godlike Backdash blowing up Hazama's mixup is lol. The reason Hazama is godlike is because he has no glaring weakness to exploit while being solid in everything else PS: I watched a minute of one of those videos before turning it off. Learn better Hazama combos, learn to hit confirm, don't stand still, mash on D. PPS: Axis is smart.
Guymam Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) PS: I watched a minute of one of those videos before turning it off. Learn better Hazama combos, learn to hit confirm, don't stand still, mash on D. If I could be so bold to add to his thorough analysis: Don't double hotenjin unless the second one kills. It's better to just finish it like normal so these things don't happen: (Read in Plinkett's voice) 1) you mistime the second kick, making you whiff and look like an asshole as he techs and 720s 2) You still have your meter for a completely separate kick. You command grabbed him almost immediately afterwards, and if you had meter you could have killed him with an unburstable kick to tha fucking face Stop trying to be flashy with that 2.D. It's a bad reset in the corner because it's easy to drop, and you did just that. Also, you hotenjin'd midscreen to try and do 2.D. Fucking why? Scoops hangendaz combo or 4D 3 times with proper spacing to keep it burst safe until you fly in. Don't try to get cute. If you want to reset, stance B works more often than you'd think, and can lead to good damage. Of course, if you fuck up or something you're at a disadvantage. Use with caution I guess. Random fly-ins, especially on Tager. Don't do it. Magna Tech, a well timed backdash, 2C... Basically, you'll get blown up most of the time. I mean, you didn't even hit him with the chain. He was completely neutral (read: no block stun at all, not like it's better idea if you hit him with chain beforehand, but I digress) to do whatever the fuck he wanted. Learn to hit your D button when far away. Execution. And Defense. And everything Zidane said about hitconfirming and shit. It's pretty much what zidane said, but in a more precise way. Am I far off the mark Zidane? Edit: also, 2~3 pages of Hazama discussion? Admit it. You're not mad that he's gay. You're mad that you're gay for him. Edited April 14, 2011 by Guymam
Lord Knight Posted April 14, 2011 Author Posted April 14, 2011 Hazama isn't even that bad if you're looking at the screen anyways.
St1ckBuG Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 As long as you bait his chains, block/backdash his bad mixup, and don't take any damage ever...he's pretty easy to beat.
Rhiya Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 As long as you bait his chains, block/backdash his bad mixup, and don't take any damage ever...he's pretty easy to beat. I admit, I was being made fun of, but damn did I lol
Rokunaya Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 don't take any damage ever.... NOT GETTING HIT BEST STRATEGY EVER. RATES OF WINNING IN BAD NETPLAYERS ON SUDDEN RISE STICKBUG FOR MAYOR
Nini Heart Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Learn better Hazama combos, learn to hit confirm, don't stand still, mash on D. Noted. Thanks. And guymam too.
TD Posted April 28, 2011 Posted April 28, 2011 this thread is kinda dead now but you really were a big help lk, giving us your insightful thoughts (and everyone that helped too ). l for one appreciate it, l needed some sort of guidance since l was struggling along on my own alot. anyway yeah thx again
pochp Posted April 28, 2011 Posted April 28, 2011 Wait wait I still have a question. LK, what are option selects people should know/use in BBCS2(but not only new ones)? Even obvious ones, I feel like there might be some that are so obvious for people that know about them that the information never gets to those that don't know.
toanenadiz Posted April 28, 2011 Posted April 28, 2011 this thread is kinda dead now but you really were a big help lk, giving us your insightful thoughts (and everyone that helped too ). l for one appreciate it, l needed some sort of guidance since l was struggling along on my own alot. anyway yeah thx again Some of us are just waiting for LK to get CS2 experience before we start asking him questions again.
André Posted April 28, 2011 Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) LK, i know that was already asked, but time passed, videos were seen and CSII is already out on something that is not the arcades(at least it's on PSP), so i guess it is valid to ask again. What's your opinion about Litchi in CSII after seeing how she is now? Who do you think are her bad match-ups? And her good ones? What should one practice first when trying to learn Litchi? Considering she is not exactly easy to learn. (If you can answer in a more CSII oriented way, please do) Do you think someone can give any opinion about match-ups based on cpu fights? (That's a sad thing) Sorry if i wrote something wrong, i'm still learning english. Edited April 29, 2011 by André
KayEff Posted April 29, 2011 Posted April 29, 2011 Japan is still calling Litchi a bullshit character. Take that how you will.
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