[CS2] Tsubaki Yayoi - Combo Discussion 3.0

[logichole]

As a contribution, here's something I figured out last night while fooling around in training mode.

1 charge, midscreen, 4k damage off of a clean 214D hit, carries to the corner:

214D > 5C(w)C > 2C 2CC > IAD j.C j.CC > 5B > 2C 2CC > 5C(w)C > hjc.C > dj.C j.CC > j.236A > j.214C

Any thoughts on how practical/impractical suboptimal this is? Still learning my way around the new Tsubaki. There are a couple of similar combos in the combo listing, but this one adds in the two 5C(w)Cs for a bit more damage.

[Daedron]

Seems good enough, but you should go for corner carry more often than not, it's so much more important to get your opponent to the corner than inflict 300-ish damage more and let your opponent run wild (unless you're going for a kill).

And no, I don't consider an air combo ender as true corner carry, your opponent has a way easier time getting out of it if you use an air combo than the ground ender.

[Relunx]

I found out an interesting cross up/mixup combo probability:

Since I can't do any IAD combos I leave the test for others:

Start with either Throw or 22D, then 236D, then a little bit delayed 214B (if you can't delay, it won't connect)

My question is after the 214B can you do any IAD combos? If yes then it's another tool for those who love/do IAD combos.

Another question:

When or how should I do the 623c>j214a cancel, coz I can't connect dash 2c after j214a.

Relunx

[Rhiya]

Another question:

When or how should I do the 623c>j214a cancel, coz I can't connect dash 2c after j214a.

You need j.214a to whiff pretty much immediately after 623c starts for dash 2C to connect. If you need to see it visually, challenge mode 9 for Tsubaki is a DP whiff combo; watch the replay until you get the idea.

If you're on stick, you can input the DP whiff as 623©214a without returning to neutral. If you're on pad, I'd imagine the easiest way to do it would be to buffer the DP during 5cc and input j.214a immediately after 5cc ends/the dp comes out. Tsubaki should barely leave the ground on DP whiff.

[BatousaiJ]

I found out an interesting cross up/mixup combo probability:

Since I can't do any IAD combos I leave the test for others:

Start with either Throw or 22D, then 236D, then a little bit delayed 214B (if you can't delay, it won't connect)

My question is after the 214B can you do any IAD combos? If yes then it's another tool for those who love/do IAD combos.

Another question:

When or how should I do the 623c>j214a cancel, coz I can't connect dash 2c after j214a.

Relunx

You never really want to do 214B after 236D, you generally want to go dash in for 5B/5C > 2CC or just dash 2CC if the situation calls for it. The dash 5B > 2CC link is especially easy and has a large window of opportunity for you to connect it so that's the one I'd recommend you go with most of the time.

As for not being able to do IAD combos, don't fret, it's like going to ruin you chance to win or anything. It just means you'll be messing out on maximum potential but you can kind of omit the IAD combo in many scenarios and still keep positional advantage so try to do that.

Also, people who are having trouble with 623C whiff and IAD combos should mostly go with the optional 2A/5A >5BB > 5CC > 22B > 236D > dash 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B combos to start for their one charge option as it does ok damage and good carry to the corner.

[mirr]

Is it possible to hit the 22[c] 5c 2c vs Jin? That went invalid invalid at the 5c part every time in the few matches i tried it tonight. If it's possible, do you have to do the 5c early or delayed to compensate for his weird fall speed?

[Daedron]

You can't pick up Jin with 5C, you can pick him up with 5CC but depending on the combo this will not always connect.

6C will pick him up, but on longer combos this will not work either and you can't do 236236C on Jin if he's on the ground either (do it after 6C)

[Eshi]

just curious. Does anyone know all of the characters of which the setups in the combo video starting here work? They're not the most practical things in the world but I've gotten one of these mix-ups off in a match against a ragna and it's really funny.

[Eshi]

Sooo, I decided to play around with 6C fatal counter punish combos tonight and it sure is fun stuff :D

This is the best meterless and chargeless combo I could come up with (4626 damage):

6C~C fatal > 623C~214B > 2CC > 7 > IAD > jC~C delayed > 5C > 2CC > 7 > IAD JC~C delayed > 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22C

hitting the first 2C just right is balls hard, and replacing 5C with 5B makes it much more lenient with only 90 less damage. For one charge, she can do:

6C~C fatal > 214D > dash forward 2CC > everything else

This literally does 2 less damage but makes it 10 times easier to land.

Anyone know a stronger (but still practical) hit confirm for 6C fatal?

Is it possible to hit the 22[c] 5c 2c vs Jin? That went invalid invalid at the 5c part every time in the few matches i tried it tonight. If it's possible, do you have to do the 5c early or delayed to compensate for his weird fall speed?

Jin has a weird sliding hitbox, 5C will whiff on him always. So will trying to end the combo with 236236C|D without picking him up with 6CC first.

Makoto has the same issue with certain combos whiffing on Jin's sliding hitbox, also with Valkenhyn and a few other people. Tsubaki may have the same issue with those characters too.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Eshi

[diospyros]

While I was trying out the j214a whiff combos, I decided to substitute j214b instead. The result I got was this: 5bb>5cc>623c>j214b whiff>2c>jc>jcc>j236a>j214c. The dash from the j214a whiff is omitted, but you need to delay it somewhat for it to connect. In a way, it's beginner friendly. If the j214b whiff is quick like the j214a counterpart, then the 2c is omitted for a super jump instead.

[STenSatsu]

Any tips on getting the 2cc after the j.214a whiff and dash? Ii seems like a bitch to get them at the right height where 2cc will combo and not let them tech.

[BatousaiJ]

Sooo, I decided to play around with 6C fatal counter punish combos tonight and it sure is fun stuff :D

This is the best meterless and chargeless combo I could come up with (4626 damage):

6C~C fatal > 623C~214B > 2CC > 7 > IAD > jC~C delayed > 5C > 2CC > 7 > IAD JC~C delayed > 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22C

That's one of the most difficult combos I've ever seen or tried and I've made three combo videos!

Yikes.

Good luck getting that to connect in a match.

I've done the 6CC > 214D > IAD x 2 combo a few times for giggles since it's got two full IAD hits in it but when it comes to punishing attacks, I've found many times you don't even have time to land a 6C or 5C CH for that max CH damage. On the other hand 5B CH > 6CC is a good alternative and will be able to punish given distance and window of opportunity that the other CH hits simply can not land. I would recommend first and foremost people learn the combos off that starter first before going into max damage territory as far as actual viability in a real match goes.

Any tips on getting the 2cc after the j.214a whiff and dash? Ii seems like a bitch to get them at the right height where 2cc will combo and not let them tech.

Practice, practice, practice.

Edit-

Saw myself dropping a easy combo today against some people and thought it was odd so I ended up testing it out.

The combo 5BB > 5CC > 22B > 236D > 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B does indeed work but it does not work with 5A as its starter. The funny thing about this is that it will however work with 2A starter. I was under the impression the combo ability of 5A/2A as in how it affects untechable time was exactly the same and it seems that it isn't.

Interesting... but annoying.

Edited May 26, 2011 by BatousaiJ

[Airk]

The combo 5BB > 5CC > 22B > 236D > 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B does indeed work but it does not work with 5A as its starter. The funny thing about this is that it will however work with 2A starter. I was under the impression the combo ability of 5A/2A as in how it affects untechable time was exactly the same and it seems that it isn't.

They're VERY close, but not identical. 5A is P1 100, P2 82, which 2A is P1 100, P2...84.

The difference is slight, but 2A is slightly better. I guess this particular combo is skirting so close to the edge of being techable that that makes a difference. @_@

[Minerva_sc]

Any tips on getting the 2cc after the j.214a whiff and dash? Ii seems like a bitch to get them at the right height where 2cc will combo and not let them tech.

to add to this, I can hit the 2cc, dpD, but they always seem to recover very high in the air after being hit with her dp, do a certain amount of hits need to land for them to fall back to the ground for the second 2cc or what?

[BatousaiJ]

to add to this, I can hit the 2cc, dpD, but they always seem to recover very high in the air after being hit with her dp, do a certain amount of hits need to land for them to fall back to the ground for the second 2cc or what?

The second 2CC only really works during very specific links like the fatal.

Generally the most you can do off a standard DP whiff combo is something like this.

5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A > 2CC > 623C > j.214A > hjc. j.C > jc j.CC > j.236A > j.214C is what it is if memory serves. Not worth doing usually over the standard 2CC corner carry loop to be honest but if you want to get fancy and get some max damage without charges/fatal stuff, that's the best you'll probably be able to do midscreen.

[Minerva_sc]

The second 2CC only really works during very specific links like the fatal.

Generally the most you can do off a standard DP whiff combo is something like this.

5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A > 2CC > 623C > j.214A > hjc. j.C > jc j.CC > j.236A > j.214C is what it is if memory serves. Not worth doing usually over the standard 2CC corner carry loop to be honest but if you want to get fancy and get some max damage without charges/fatal stuff, that's the best you'll probably be able to do midscreen.

ahh, yeah, I was reading the combo wrong actually. :p

edit: also, 623C>j.214C seems to work over using A outsaide the corner, and you don't need to dash, any reason for using a? consistency? though the timing is tighter for the j.214, I guess it doesn't really matter.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Minerva_sc

[BatousaiJ]

I entertained the idea of whiff j.214C myself for awhile and logically it felt like it might be easier since you're getting rid of the dash component entirely but after awhile, I don't really think this is the case.

The way the hitbox for 2C and the falling opponent works the "sweet spot" for where you have the biggest timing chance to land both hits of the 2CC is not where j.214C lands you. You can land it sure but once you got the timing down for the dash, you'll notice yourself hitting the 2CC closer to the opponent than you think.

After all this time, my consistency with this link is nowhere near where I would like it and I personally think it's just a matter of practice and adjusting properly to the various degrees of lag I come across.

Offline though, I'm confident enough to go for it everytime it's relevant to use. Online, only really in very good conditions.

[HajinShinobi]

Probably a waste of both 50 heat and one install charge, but here goes...

J.214C > RC > 5B 2C > 214D > 2CC > IAD J.CC > 5B 2CC > 236B 214B 22B (somewhere around 3400-3600 damage).

Works midscreen and in the corner. I know it's not exactly practical, but it's for one of those situations when you decide to charge install in the air or whatever. Just something you can do if J.214C just so happens to NOT get blocked lol..

[seyu]

Got a question:

I usually do this combo for one charge:

5BB>5CC>623C>j236D>214C>6CC>sj>jC>jCC>236A>214C is like 3.4-3.5 K

Now i want to maximise the damage with a second charge and thought 214D would be good. if i just stuff it in after the 6C it does roughly 4K wich isnt bad, but not very awesome either. So i tried:

5BB>5CC>623C>j236D>214C>6C>214D>2CC>IAD>jCC>etc. but i allways fail the IAD part. Im not to reliable yet with the IAD par though, so i wanted to ask if its possible, or if its just my execution.

[BatousaiJ]

Probably a waste of both 50 heat and one install charge, but here goes...

J.214C > RC > 5B 2C > 214D > 2CC > IAD J.CC > 5B 2CC > 236B 214B 22B (somewhere around 3400-3600 damage).

Works midscreen and in the corner. I know it's not exactly practical, but it's for one of those situations when you decide to charge install in the air or whatever. Just something you can do if J.214C just so happens to NOT get blocked lol..

Considering if you're throwing j.214C out there to actually hit people with you want to RC anyway, this isn't a bad combo to know.

While a blocked j.214x doesn't spell almost certain doom anymore since it has a decent knockaway on block, it's still incredibly unsafe so keeping an RC option for yourself when you use it is a good idea.

Got a question:

I usually do this combo for one charge:

5BB>5CC>623C>j236D>214C>6CC>sj>jC>jCC>236A>214C is like 3.4-3.5 K

Now i want to maximise the damage with a second charge and thought 214D would be good. if i just stuff it in after the 6C it does roughly 4K wich isnt bad, but not very awesome either. So i tried:

5BB>5CC>623C>j236D>214C>6C>214D>2CC>IAD>jCC>etc. but i allways fail the IAD part. Im not to reliable yet with the IAD par though, so i wanted to ask if its possible, or if its just my execution.

First problem is that your one charge option is a character specific nightmare. It will not work with the same timing with everyone(vs some characters it requires very precise timing) while simply not being possible against Tager... add to that the fact that you forgo the whole untechable time(for free charge) and corner carry you want in a BnB, I'd recommend you choose a different combo as you goto one charge combo.

As for the second combo you listed, it just doesn't work. IAD isn't an accessible branch to continue the combo with after that series of hits.

[seyu]

First problem is that your one charge option is a character specific nightmare. It will not work with the same timing with everyone(vs some characters it requires very precise timing) while simply not being possible against Tager... add to that the fact that you forgo the whole untechable time(for free charge) and corner carry you want in a BnB, I'd recommend you choose a different combo as you goto one charge combo.

As for the second combo you listed, it just doesn't work. IAD isn't an accessible branch to continue the combo with after that series of hits.

alright thanks for the answer:) What combo would you suggest then to get the most out of 2 charges?

[BatousaiJ]

alright thanks for the answer:) What combo would you suggest then to get the most out of 2 charges?

Personally, I'm a fan of this 2 charge combo for a 5B starter mid screen.

5BB > 5CC > 623C> j.214A > j.C > j.236D > j.214A > 6C > 236D > dash 5C > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B.

Corner to corner carry that ends with positional/charge advantage, works with either 2A/5A starter added on, relatively easy execution and works on everyone(if the j.214A hits them after j.236D, either you're too close to the corner or you need to delay the 623C a little bit).

Once again though, I can't stress enough that max damage isn't important for mid-screen combos, it's the carry and advantage you end with that you have to be looking out for the most.

[eQualz]

I have a quick question for you guys.

When I IAD j.214D and land it, I can't seem to follow it up with 236D for the life of me in midscreen.

Try this.

Dash 2A > 5B > IAD > j.214D.

Whether that be a fake cross over or a legit one, if it hits, no matter how fast I go into 236D, it won't connect unless it's they're near or at the corner so the slide is shortened.

Can someone test this to see if it's an execution problem on my end or just the way it works?

A little late for your response but I didn't see anyone mentioning this. I didn't manage to get it work either unless I let her reposition. I'll have to test this in a match and see if it still is a viable cross up.

On a sidenote: I'm new to Tsubaki and I love her

[BatousaiJ]

Thanks for the check.

It's certainly viable as I find myself using it from time to time successfully but without the option to continue with 236D midscreen after crossover makes the benefits much less appealing. With the corner to your back though, this is my favorite ways or turning the tides rather quickly.

[Eshi]

That's one of the most difficult combos I've ever seen or tried and I've made three combo videos!

Yikes.

Good luck getting that to connect in a match.

yeah it took me forever to figure out how to get it to work, and my execution is really good. I just wanted to experiment with theoretical max damage. 623C 214A whiff combos are generally really hard to grasp, I've never learned anything quite like it.

6CC fatal punishes aren't too impractical, I started experimenting in the first place because after predicting DPs and making them whiff I realized I didn't know the best way to punish them.

Also... I've recently realized that Tsubaki has a gaping weakness against barrier guarding her strings. Anyone have general advice for ways to counter it?

Edited May 29, 2011 by Eshi