Mithiel Posted September 12, 2011 Posted September 12, 2011 Whenever i try to 66 to 6C I just drop the first hit of 6C do you dash immediately after spring raid? Because I just tried to delay or dash during spring raid and I'm still getting a dropped frame.
LunaKage Posted September 12, 2011 Author Posted September 12, 2011 You need to wait until Spring Raid recovers, also just in case you didn't already know, you can only do this combo in the corner.
Mithiel Posted September 12, 2011 Posted September 12, 2011 Yeah, i've been following BBCS2: Noel Vermillion Beginner Combos. I think I got it now I was just dashing to soon during Spring Raid recovery and the dash wasn't coming out. Thanks for the help :D
TrueGunnerShadow Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I do got one question in mind. What's so good about 6D oki with Noel?
LunaKage Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 I do got one question in mind. What's so good about 6D oki with Noel? Midscreen 6D wiff oki sets you up for: 1. If your opponent emergency techs, you are at frame advantage and only moves with invul can beat out your 5A, this allows you to continue pressure. 2. If your opponent tries to tech roll in either direction, you can punish with 5A > 6C for a combo right back into 6D wiff oki. 3. If your opponent stays on the ground, you can 2B > 6C for a full new combo that does about 2.4k and ends up back in 6D wiff oki 4. If you opponent has a DP, this puts you in the perfect position to backdash it, making the DP wiff, and thus not able to be Rapid Canceled, so you get a free punish no matter how much heat your opponent has.
LiveWireX Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. And well, I hadn't even thought of the emergency tech thing, lol.
Noel's My Wifey Posted September 19, 2011 Posted September 19, 2011 Anybody willing to teach me spacing with Noel over psn? That's my biggest problem and it's keeping me from improving my game. Also I need to learn pressure with Noel. My pressure is terrible and consist of a b c 6b. That's how terrible it is.
SkyKing Posted September 19, 2011 Posted September 19, 2011 Anybody willing to teach me spacing with Noel over psn? That's my biggest problem and it's keeping me from improving my game. Also I need to learn pressure with Noel. My pressure is terrible and consist of a b c 6b. That's how terrible it is. If you'd like, I should be available tomorrow evening for some games. I haven't been playing these past couple weeks, so I think it'd also remind me of what her spacing game should look like.
Noel's My Wifey Posted September 19, 2011 Posted September 19, 2011 If you'd like, I should be available tomorrow evening for some games. I haven't been playing these past couple weeks, so I think it'd also remind me of what her spacing game should look like. Yea that sounds good. Go ahead and send me an add and I'll invite ya tomorrow then.
SkyKing Posted September 19, 2011 Posted September 19, 2011 Yea that sounds good. Go ahead and send me an add and I'll invite ya tomorrow then. Alright then, sounds good. Just look for "OzShinji".
BionicDemon Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Just starting to learn Noel, and I have a question. How do you do that small dash into 6C after you 22C? I can't do it. Help please~!
LunaKage Posted September 23, 2011 Author Posted September 23, 2011 You can dash cancel silencer, just quickly do 22C~66, it will come out.
Runis Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 22C dash has two methods, One is to cancel the move into a dash, which is the fastest method to get a dash out and covers the furthest distance but the dash cancel only goes a set distance, and you cannot do anything until the dash animation finishes. The other method is to wait until 22C finishes and then to manually dash, This can go the short distances that the dash cancel will overshoot. You may need either method depending on spacing of you and your opponent after the 22C. Sometimes you may want to use the dash cancel by itself, sometimes you may want to dash again after it finishes, and sometimes you don't want to use the dash cancel because it will make you run too far, so you need to wait till the window ends and dash normally. Seeing as no-one likes using the fancy stuff, you won't need to worry about dashing normally quite as often since its only used after a raw 22C which is used to setup reset points. For the 22BBBBBC stuff, after a 214A, if you do BBC the dash cancel is at the perfect distance to do a 6C into another 22B(and continue haida loop) after close 3C 5xB in general is about the right distance, Against Makoto, 22BBBBBBC (6 x B) on normal hit, 5 times on a Counter Hit. If you notice that you're too close, you can do a 6C (B+C) 6C to space them out a little. This will not work if you're setting up a reset drive string due to proration making the 6C B+C 6C whiff.
Khaoz77 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Thanks for clearing that up, I was also having trouble with that.
LunaKage Posted October 22, 2011 Author Posted October 22, 2011 Wat are her frame traps Luna? My Personal Favorites: 5A > 5C 2B > 2C 2C > 3C There may be more but these are the ones I use most of the time. Also remember that her 2C causes a fuzzy, so if you are blocking low, but then block high and get hit by her 2C, you're still in crouching state so I get to combo you with a crouching combo.
HexaNoid Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Wat are her frame traps Luna? I'm not Luna, but here's a few that I know of that haven't been mentioned: 2C - Hits twice and is a frame trap in itself. If someone blocks the first hit of 2C and tries to mash out before the second hit comes out, they will get him by the second hit every time. If they're crouching, you can confirm that into (5C >) 3C for a combo but if they're standing you'll only be able to combo into 3C if your 2C counter hits them. 6C > 2C - 6C has a very large cancel window, so 6C > delay > 2C can work as a frame trap too. 6C(2) can also be avoided by crouching, so your opponent will probably be holding when they block 6C and you'll get a nice crouching 2C hit. 2C > 2A - You have to be quite close to your opponent for this to work, but 2C is +3 on block and 2A comes out in 6 frames so (unless the 2C is IB'd) there is nothing that can poke you out of the following 2A. 2C is also what we use to end a lot of our strings, so it might make the opponent feel that it's safe to press buttons when it's not.
LunaKage Posted October 22, 2011 Author Posted October 22, 2011 Hex I can't say for certain but I think 2C > 2C(2) is only a frame trap if the first hit is IBed.
HexaNoid Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 I'm pretty sure I've hit people with the 2C > 2C(2) frame trap who haven't IB'd it before, but it definitely wasn't a CH or anything. Maybe it just depends on the move they're trying to throw out. It works as a fuzzy guard anyway and I'm certain about that.
spidey19 Posted November 4, 2011 Posted November 4, 2011 Could someone tell me how to play Noel, like what move to use for poking, Noel's breakdown of normal? It was really easy for to start of with Jin because of this post, in the Jin's forum they have something like this: Hey guys, by now i'm sure you guys have seen Spirit Juice's plan to make video tutorials for everyone http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11073-Community-Project-BBCS2-Character-Tutorial-Videos Yuushiro and I have been working on a list of stuff on google docs, and I figured we've made enough progress that we can show you what we have so far. Clearly it's not finished, and I want to cull the combo section so it's not as big, but hooray, progress! 1) Introduction Character breakdown of play style, strengths, and weaknesses Jin’s strengths are: being a jack-of-all-trades (meaning he will always have a tool in almost any given situation), and being able to use “EX Attacks” for 25% Heat. His weakness is he doesn’t excel in any one area. Note: be careful when using any ex attacks since your heat gain will decrease for a while. My advice is to spend most of your heat once you get to the corner and don't spam unnecessary 25% EX. Playstyle is midscreen zoning with tools like j.C, 5C, 5D, 623A, 2D until you get an opportunity to rush the opponent down and stick them in the corner. From there, find a way to start your damaging 623C loops. Breakdown of normals AA normals are 5C, 5B, 2A, 2C. Jin’s air-to-air normals are dependant on enemy’s position (if in range of j.A, use it, otherwise use j.C), if opponent is above or below you, use j.B or j.2C (depending on their position: j.B hitbox most likely won't hit enemy above you and it has a wheel like animation. Try using j2C if the enemy going to be above you). j.B and j.2C can be used as jump in crossups 6B is used as a way to catch opponents who try to break a throw. Be sure to mix in things such as 2B every once in a while to keep them guessing. If they do the 3ABC option select, you can react to this with a throw (since they will be in a throw reject miss state for a while)! When the opponent is crouching, 5C > 6C and 2C > 6C both work. 2D is used as blockstring ender since it leaves Jin at +5. However using it haphazardly is not a good idea 5D is used sparingly as a part of combos and as a zoning tool since it hits pretty far in front of him. However doing it too close will leave you vulnerable to counter attack. 3C is a sweep that’s used primarily in combos. You can combo into ice car for damage. 6A is your overhead that comes over very quickly, but does requires a RC (or a counter hit) to combo afterwards. It is safe on block and removes a guard primer. 6C is mostly used in combos, but can be used to punish opponents who recklessly jump 2C is used in pressure strings to catch enemies who try to jump out. Breakdown of special moves Changes from CS1 to CS2 +2C>5C gatling, easy to confirm for fatal , can't do the 2nd 2C +sekkajin knockback decreases a lot +2B >5B gatling added, cant do 2nd 2B +623C does 1300 instead of 1000 dmg. untechable time increased; opponent will hit the ground on normal hit + Yukikaze now does 3080 damage + jump is now 4F startup (was 5F in CS1) + j.B is looking as dangerous as it was in CT.(probably because of the new jump startup) + You can do "5B > 2B" and 5B > 6A", it looks like 6A is a really fun move to use now. + Neutral throw's freeze time is longer now. + 5B is air unblockable (must FD in the air) + 5C is air unblockable (must FD in the air) + 6A removes a guard primer on block + 214B and j.214B knock down +623B 's untechable time greatly increased, ground hit would be until they're knocked down, can follow up with 5C and 2D +5C has better vertical range, can be used more as AA +j.2C has bigger hitbox below Jin +5D speed is faster than CS1, combo from 5C. - 623C has longer recovery - 623D seems to have the same move proration, combos with 2 623D's involved pretty much don't work anymore (less dmg for corner loops?) - 3C techable - 5C has less horizontal reach - 6A forces crouch on hit (6A > rapid cancel > 5C>6C possible) , cant be special canceled - back throw prorated really bad -6D doesn't break primer anymore - throw is not cancellable anymore, but you can combo with dash 6C and does something around 2000 - 214D's startup looks slower -623B's low hitbox removed, won't hit any crouching characters. 2) Combos Basic combos Starter 5B: 5B (2) > 5C > Sekkajin > 6C > 2D > 6C > 214C (2780 damage) 5B (2) > 5C > Sekkajin > 5C > 6C > Dash > j.C > j.2C > j.D > 6C > 214C (3054 damage) Corner: 5B (2) > 5C > 623B > 6C > 6D > 6C > Dash > 5C > sj.2C > 214C (3224 damage) 5B (2) > 5C > 623B > 6C > 6D > 6C > Dash > 5C > sj.C > dj.2C > 214C (3333 damage) 5B (2) > 5C > 623B > 6C > 6D > 6C > Dash > 5C > sj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (3584 damage) Tager specific: 5B (2) > 5C > j.B > j.2C > j.C > 5C > j.B > j.2C > j.D > 5B > 3C > 214C (2887 damage) Crouchers only: 5B (2) > 5C > 6C > Dash > 5C > j.2C > j.D > Airdash > j.2C > j.C > 5B (2) > 2B > 5C > 3C (3009 damage) Starter 623D: 623D > 632146C (3082 damage, tested against Valkenhayn) 623D > 6C > 6D > 5C > sj.C > sj.2C > dj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (3753 damage) 623D > 6C > 623B > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (4227 damage) 623D > 6C > 623B > 6C > Dash > 623D > 6D > 5C > sj.2C > 214C (4529 damage) Starter 2D: 2D > 6B > Sekkajin > 6C > 214C (2388 damage, 28 meter) 2D > 6C > 5C > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214C (2690 damage, 25 meter) 2D > 6B > Sekkajin > 6C > Dash > 5C > sj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (3021 damage) 2D > 6C > 5C > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (3094 damage) Ground Throw: forward/back Throw > (Backthrow needs a slight Dash) > 6C > Dash > 5C > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214C (2229 damage) forward throw>5C>214B forward throw>2D>5A>5C>214B forward throw>2D>5A>5C>5D>214D>6C>214C forward/back throw into the corner > 6C > 623B > 6C > 623C > 5A > 5C > 2C > 623C Airthrow: Airthrow > 6C > Dash > 5C > 6C > Dash > j.C >dj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (3449 damage) Starter 6C: 6C CH > Dash > 6C > 2D > 6B > Sekkajin > 6C > 214C (3738 damage) 6C CH > Dash > 6C > 2D > 6B > Sekkajin > 6C > Dash > 5C > sj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (4378 damage) 6C CH > Dash > 6C > 2D > 6C > Dash > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214C (4046 damage) 6C CH > Dash > 6C > 2D > 6C > Dash > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (4457 damage) Starter 6D 6D > 6B > Sekkajin > 6C > Dash > 5C > 6C > Dash >j.C > dj.2C > 214C (3517 damage) 6D > 623B > 6C > 6D > 623D > 6C > 6D > 5C > sj.2C > 214C (3964 damage) Sekkajin combo(when going from midscreen to corner) 5B>5C>sekkajin>6C>dc>small dash>5C>6C>6D〜 Fatal Counter 2C(FC)→5C→6C→2D→6B→5C→2C→6C(dc)→5C→(jc)→JC→(jc)→J2 C→214 B You can substitute the 214B with J214D→6C→214C at the end instead. new jin combo quick summary courtesy of stunedge: B>C>Bdp>2C>6C>6D>IAD J2C>JC>B>2B>C>3C>214C 46% heat 3200 sth B>C>sekka>6C>2D>6B>sekka>JC>214B 38% heat 2800 sth B>C>Bdp>2C>6C>Cdp>B>C>JC>JD>214B throw>6C>Bdp>6C>Cdp>A>C>JC>jc>J2C>214B 2D>6C>Bdp>6C>5C>6C>Cdp>A>C>HJ2C>214B Advanced combos Counter hit and Fatal Counter combos Character specific combos (if needed) (Keep in mind that the combo section is going to be 100% practical combos you would use in a tournament, not flashy, combo video material) 3) Strategy Mixups 1. 6B throw feint. This can be defeated by either mashing or doing the barrier block/ throw break option select (1+ABC) if the opponent uses the option select, delay your throw slightly and they will be unable to break the throw (throw reject miss) if the opponent is mashing, just do a fast attack to hit them out of it. Also if they are mashing 2A while blocking because they want to prevent you to dashin>throw try doing a frame trap 2A>2A>delay>5C for example. 2. 6A. Requires an RC or a counter hit to continue the combo. 3. 5B now gatling to 6A or 2B, giving them 50-50 guess especially if you have meter 4. freeze from a j.D or corner 236D into jump in high/ low/ throw 5. air dash 3 ice or jD..., giving them cross up/fake cross up to worry about. Do it when you get pushed back a little bit far away. In the corner you can do jD after 5B since the 2nd hit of 5B will pull the enemy towards you 6. 6B>3 ice or fireballs. 7. jump in place jC on mid range. 8. fuzzy guard setup with j.2C. 9. Multiple j2C if it's hit because it's jump cancellable or j2C>jB for multiple overheads. 10. Hit them with a lot of jump moves.., ex. : j.B>j.2C>j.D> 3 Ice. j.B>j2C>(jc)>j.B>j.A>j.A j.B>j2C>(airdash back)>j.C 11. 5B/2B/5C blocked>jump back>j.236A/B>air dash j.2C or jump delay j.C 12. pressure(5B)> IAD j2C in the corner Pressure 1.midscreen blah blah 2D, run up 2A or 2B blah blah 2D, blah blah 2D... (don't spam 2D too much though, almost all character have counters for it if they are looking for it. If you keep 2D-ing after pressure). 2. 5D dash cancel should only be done at far ranges since it is -4. Sometimes I like to cancel it to uppercut to keep them honest and guessing and not just mashing eventhough it's negative on our part. It's risky and dangerous though. (dash cancel from 6C or 5D) 3. I throw my enemies a lot eventhough the dmg is low. It will carry them far to the corner. 4. jump-in j.B and j.2C. I mix it sometimes with empty jump, 2B to keep them guessing. Or jump in 3 ice or air fireball to keep prevent them from just spamming DP or AA moves. 5. midscreen into IAD (cross them up) j.C Okizeme 1.2A, 2B and 5C are your general roll stoppers. a.In the corner after a 3C, you can use 236C b.also 5B, 2A, 2B will stop people from rolling out from the corner. you can try to use purple air throw sometimes to return them back to the corner. c. If you are doing the corner loop and ending your combo with rehhyou you can try to jump for mixup and j2C will catch them if they try to roll out or quick getup. Otherwise if they neutral tech then you can do whatever mix up you want. 2. Crossunder 2A when they neutral tech 3. Gimmicky but you can do ice car B if you think they gonna roll backward 4.3C > 236D doesn't work anymore in BBCS2. You can substitute this with 6C(delay)>236D instead but sometimes it's not worth it remember this is for characters with big hitbox Misc. tips/tricks 1.You can do 2 air projectiles in a row if the first one disappears quickly enough and you are high off the ground. you can also do multiple j.C or combination of those 2. 2.Remember that Jin best poke is 5B but now you can also mix it up with 2B and 2B cancel to 5B too. 3. Remember 2C as a very vertical anti air and you can cancel it to 5C make it so much more safer move. But still you don't want to spam this. Think of it as your dead angle DP. 4. Ice arrow CH have untechable time till the enemy hits the ground, so does Yukikaze. Use this opportunity to deal more dmg if you can. For the ice arrow, you can swap corner by doing dash in 2B to slip under the enemy hitbox and make them to be in the corner instead. gdlk comeback tools for both of them. can do 6000++ dmg with 100% meter in either situation. 5. use frame trap once in a while delay some of your normals like before 5C or 2C to get a counter hit. ex. 5B>2B> delay>5C (CH) 2B>5B>delay>2C (FC) 6. end your combos with hjc>j.C>jD... and then airdash jD or 3 ice for air crossup mixup As a rule of thumb, freezes from normals (5D, 2D, 6D, j.D) can only be the first freeze in the combo. After that you can only use 25% special attacks and distortion drives to refreeze the opponent. Thank you.
KirbyMorph Posted November 6, 2011 Posted November 6, 2011 Is there a particular time you should CA a block string for bigger advantages or if do you just do it the minute they start a combo to get out of the pressure. Assume it's a corner combo block string from a Ragna or Jin-type rush down for pressure. Should I just CA immediately and get out of there or would there be a certain move i should look for from each character's rushdown to CA for a better advantage/situation post-CA.
HexaNoid Posted November 6, 2011 Posted November 6, 2011 Could someone tell me how to play Noel, like what move to use for poking, Noel's breakdown of normal? Something like that will be written up once we get CSX, but in the meantime you can read this. It doesn't have as much detail as your post, but the guide for CSX will be a lot more in-depth. Is there a particular time you should CA a block string for bigger advantages or if do you just do it the minute they start a combo to get out of the pressure. Assume it's a corner combo block string from a Ragna or Jin-type rush down for pressure. Should I just CA immediately and get out of there or would there be a certain move i should look for from each character's rushdown to CA for a better advantage/situation post-CA. You should be looking for them to do a move with a large amount of recovery or one that'll lead into said move before you CA. The reason for this is that if you CA will they're doing 2AxN, for example, they can carry on pressing 2A, auto-correct from the cross-up and hit you meaning you've wasted 50 heat for nothing. Now say Ragna does 5B > 5C and you CA the 5B, his 5C will still come out and you'll have plenty of time to counter attack/escape/whatever it is you plan to do. Also, players can bait your CA if they see it coming (Rachel can do this with George lockdown for example), so make sure you pick your spots with CAs.
ReachForTheEnd Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Okay I haven't been on in forever and I am trying to get good again. I am trying to learn Noel and I have a few questions... 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyiGsecgrQo Are these still valid combos to learn for a beginner? 2) I am having a really hard time pulling Thor off in mid-air. Is it possible to TK the input? I think that would be a lot easier... 3) And is it just a matter of pracitce to get the (214A>2B>6C>ect.) down? 4) is there anyone on XBL who would be willing to get online and give me a few pointer? Edited November 8, 2011 by ReachForTheEnd
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