CrazyI-nomitsu Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 she isnt bannable. just really good. it should be noted that you actually do need to learn things with her and get some time in the lab in order to get good results. ln fact, no top tier in this game is really easy to just pick up(except noel in my own biased opinion lol), or anyone for that matter, and mostly everyone can win in the game now. lk how do buy and play the same game that you are playing. lts obvious that all the top/jp bb players are always catching something im not. its hard trying to understand and apply advanced things, it really is. now how can l learn mindgames when im not even past the average skill level yet. Arakune is most capable of killing in one curse period, with the use of his many resets, plus with corner (lol CS2) he has an unblockable, DP/gold burst proof reset that has 100p1 on both the low and the overhead. The more health the character has the better their chances, but then with max meter Arakune can recurse as well. :/ His potential is yet to be realized. How do you nerf Arakune?
Skye Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Arakune is stupid by design, knowing how to beat him lies in knowing his blind spots, and there are quite a few. EDIT: *Sees you play Tager* Never mind.
Lord Knight Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 My questions: I find it strange Jin players back off of Tager when they are applying the pressure to him. Why do they do that? And is plat really bad as I have been hearing? The Jin players are probably scared of getting hit by a 360 or 720. Plat isn't "bad". The problem with her is that sometimes she needs a specific item for a matchup or a situation. As items are random, you won't always have what you need at the right moment. Not having access to tools whenever you want = not good. However, Plat's mixup is great, and her damage output is high. I feel like she's very versatile.
Lord Knight Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 Arakune is most capable of killing in one curse period, with the use of his many resets, plus with corner (lol CS2) he has an unblockable, DP/gold burst proof reset that has 100p1 on both the low and the overhead. The more health the character has the better their chances, but then with max meter Arakune can recurse as well. :/ His potential is yet to be realized. The fact that it might take 2 times, combined with shorter cloud times, weaker jump, arguably weaker dash (depends on what you feel is more important, the speed or the distance traveled), you can say he's weaker. Also most of that stuff doesn't happen all the time. . . he still has stuff like random airthrow/gold burst/etc into curse and all, and the new gatlings are very helpful, but I think the inconsistent damage really hurts him. In the case of whoever wrote up that tier list, they think it hurts him THAT much, which I somewhat disagree with.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 The Jin players are probably scared of getting hit by a 360 or 720. Plat isn't "bad". The problem with her is that sometimes she needs a specific item for a matchup or a situation. As items are random, you won't always have what you need at the right moment. Not having access to tools whenever you want = not good. However, Plat's mixup is great, and her damage output is high. I feel like she's very versatile. That's good to know about plat. And that doesn't make sense. jin's pressure is safe, all the Tager can do is time a good backdash to 360 them. But hey their fear makes life easier for me. Arakune is stupid by design, knowing how to beat him lies in knowing his blind spots, and there are quite a few. EDIT: *Sees you play Tager* Never mind. What is that suppose to mean? You racist against Tager players? I play plat too.
Skye Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I believe the reason players don't opt for resets is because they are harder to learn, especially midscreen, but opting for resets begets more damage in the end anyway. The shorter cloud times, yes, they affect him negatively. The shorter jump only hurts his defense (being able to jump out of stuff), which proved unnecessary anyway, since jumping out is harder all around. It's a change that is hard to take notice of if you're playing CS2 right. The backdash has gained usage and lost it with the changes given, but it can still be used to escape pressure, just not as derpy. Wall teleport nerf is a straight up nerf. Lack of 100% curse off of FC 5c/2c hurts too (100% FC j.c is still there). On the other hand, forward dash received a buff in speed, improving his ground movement, new gatlings and attack level increases on key moves gives him a stronger pre-curse offense game, opens up new combos and confirms and give Arakune small time oki, j.b is still stupid (in fact the hitbox received a small enlargement from CS1), IB nerf makes curse pressure more tight and the adjustments to the primer and guard break systems works in his advantage since crushing primers is a specialty in curse. Not to mention f.g, which turns the floor into lava and oftentimes forces sporadic play from the opponent, providing ground control for Arakune, can be used to punish whiffed ground moves, and can be bnb'd into, meter gain from the first curse can inevitably lead to the second with solid play and post curse oki, and again with resets being optimal, a second curse time is usually unnecessary. Combine that with the air unblockable normals change and he has solid offensive abilities. He is weaker in some areas, more so his defense, but his offense, albeit adjusted, is stronger all around, just rarely used since it's easier to run an cloud and mash j.b > 5a > 6b > j.6d. Most players just need to adjust their playstyles. My humble opinion. On that note I know nothing about his current tier position. What is that suppose to mean? You racist against Tager players? I play plat too. My best friend is your moderator, and he's damn solid, so I know what Tager can do in the hands of a really good player. Nonetheless Ara v Tager is stupid. Always has been.
huey253 Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I think the main reason arakune is so low is that he generally loses to the top tier (not noel i think) and every single zoning character in the game. the leaves bang/ragna/platinum/tager as possible even or advantage matches. i still think arakune is a strong character
atdsutm Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) kind of like you kinda like USA vs Satoshi at Revelations or even vs Tokido. fucking sad. i just want to change characters and some people here are already getting worked up or simply starts to troll or bashes the guy. Edited June 29, 2011 by atdsutm
atdsutm Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 yeah true, especially at final round. Ivysaur was godlike lol
C0R Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Only NCoastI is free to Tokido though. Fixed. Let's stop cluttering LK's thread with aimless bashing though, real talk, this is a productive thread and I'd rather he not have to remake it again.
atdsutm Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 btw what makes you think that Hakumen is on the same level as Tager in your personal tier list?
TD Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 alrighty lk im going to do just what you said, thanks. l should probably write stuff down because l forget alot of it too quickly. heres something silly, do you think writing yourself a mini-guide on your character based off your own experience is a good idea, or even necessary? lt sounds like something people do... but it also sounds like a silly thing to do ._.
Zeron_X25 Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 LK, how do you feel about the Litchi vs. Hazama matchup? Any specific things that work well against Litchi or vice versa? Anything Hazamas do that tick you off or make you want to play more defensively? What are good moves to anti air Litchi with in this matchup and what anti airs works best against Hazama's chain-ins?
Airk Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 alrighty lk im going to do just what you said, thanks. l should probably write stuff down because l forget alot of it too quickly. heres something silly, do you think writing yourself a mini-guide on your character based off your own experience is a good idea, or even necessary? lt sounds like something people do... but it also sounds like a silly thing to do ._. If it helps you remember, go for it; I'm nowhere near good at this game, but I have a list of stuff to try to keep in mind so I autopilot less. It's stupid stuff right now like "Use more counter assaults!" because I need to remind myself that the options to do stuff are there. Once I start remembering that, I can worry about putting them to use, and the list helps me remember what I'm not doing (or doing and shouldn't.)
fragile Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 hey LK can u please help me with writing up the essential blockstrings with Litchi (with/without staff) and the options for the mixup in them. Thanks!
Nakkiel Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 hey LK can u please help me with writing up the essential blockstrings with Litchi (with/without staff) and the options for the mixup in them. Thanks! In my opinion, there is no one essential blockstring for Litchi. The beauty about her offense is that it's so free-form thanks to staff set/call canceling. Using it effectively requires that you know all of her gatlings by heart (read up on the frame data revolver table), using proper late-chaining to discourage mashing and jumping out and varied usage of set/call canceling. I feel if you aren't proficient at all of that, then your offensive pressure will be weak and you won't be effective. For example, if your opponent isn't afraid to press buttons during your pressure, it's going to be hard to set the staff mid blockstring without being punished. My best advice for her pressure is to really study the frame data and watch lots of videos. Go to training mode and figure out what you can late-chain.
Mumm-Ra Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) I believe the reason players don't opt for resets is because they are harder to learn, especially midscreen, but opting for resets begets more damage in the end anyway. (Some) People in japan don't opt for resets because they actually know how to block shit there. You don't manage to hit them again in the 6-7 seconds you've got left and there goes your precious curse, along with any kind of recurse, that is if you even manage to hit them first in the shorter curse time that CS2 has. In America, like you said, they're too hard for them, a bloo bloo bloo. Arakune's definitely weaker now, easier curse gain doesn't put up with shorter curse time (whilst being hit, even!) and overall less damage, coupled with even worse defense (Believe it or not, jumping out of shit was Arakune's best way to escape pressure). Although I do agree with LK when he says that he's definitely higher than that (solid A tier), but that's just me (and LK [and you]). Edited July 1, 2011 by Mumm-Ra
Lord Knight Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 LK, how do you feel about the Litchi vs. Hazama matchup? Any specific things that work well against Litchi or vice versa? Anything Hazamas do that tick you off or make you want to play more defensively? What are good moves to anti air Litchi with in this matchup and what anti airs works best against Hazama's chain-ins? Just do whatever against Litchi. Just like in CS1, Litchi has to play the matchup properly in order to beat Hazama. Stick to your gameplan and just play safe. Usually I just get annoyed against Hazama's because they just try to [7] me all day, but outside of that I don't get annoyed. As usual, just use chains/5A/2C/Gasshokyaku for anti airs. Litchi's guard point got buffed so you'll see more of it. Don't chain in too liberally. hey LK can u please help me with writing up the essential blockstrings with Litchi (with/without staff) and the options for the mixup in them. Thanks! Like sG said, Litchi is very freeform, and it takes a lot of understanding in order to pressure with her effectively. However I can give you a couple of tips. 2a > 2c is anti mash and anti jump. On counter hit, confirm into itsuu. On raw hit, confirm into 6d. On block, 6d is still fine but 5c or 5d are fine too. 2a > 2b also can't be mashed. You can delay 6d to again stop mashing, or you can go into 4D for a high hit or put the stick down. Those are some of the most important things with the stick. When you're staffless you need to be a bit more freeform. Just remember that she can move very freely through her gatlings now (5c > 2c and 2c > 5c, 5b > 2b and 2b > 5b, 5b >2a > 5b etc).
BatousaiJ Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 What's a good punish for Litchi's 4D with staff on block? It seems like when I try to 2a her after blocking, sometimes we'll trade or worse I'll end up eating a counter hit.
Lord Knight Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 What's a good punish for Litchi's 4D with staff on block? It seems like when I try to 2a her after blocking, sometimes we'll trade or worse I'll end up eating a counter hit. Nothing. . . . is what I want to say, lol. Litchi's 4D is safer the farther away its used. I believe it's -4 at the closest possible range. From max range, probably around +5 or so.
BatousaiJ Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Similar to Tsu's 236C I see. So after blocking 5C(two hits), I'm too far to punish after block. Blehhhhhhhhhhhhh. Thanks for the info.
Leonil_Requiem Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Based on the past month or so, what would be your tier list? Do you feel Ragna is tourney viable in this regulation? What oki commands do you use when executing Great Wheel oki. :3 What Great Wheel oki 138xxx's more popular than others? When tossing out litchi's staff, are you committed to a launch before or after you start to launch once the staff begins to shake? What are litchi's max damages starts and hit confirm.(pretty much, what starts do i burst. *shrugs* pretty helpful right?)
BatousaiJ Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 why is j2D + 19 on block, a crossup, and a low? Because you touch yourself at night, I reckon. I thought Litchi's j2D was neutral first hit and then low second hit?
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