Rhiya Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 I don't see how Mori could have thought it was a good idea to center Tsubaki's damage around Mugen. It's like trying to center Ragna's game around landing Blood Kain combos. People are just going to burst out of things to avoid the damage, and they're incredibly easy to burst out of safely since almost all of Tsubaki's install combos that I've seen involve doing 623D. You have to somehow force the opponent to use their bursts before even thinking about doing Mugen combos, since you'll just lose all your charges and 50 meter for trying. They should really make combos during Mugen unburstable or something =\ To be fair, CS2 Hazama was fucking good, and his game ran off whether or not he had meter for Houtenjin. Needing to rely on mugen for damage isn't necessarily bad. The character needs to be tailored to it, though. CS2 Haz had good neutral and good heat gain, which helped make the whole "get 50 heat and raep" deal more viable.
Errol Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) 85% repeat proration still means you don't want to repeat them. ie, that 92 p2 on 214D is essentially a 78 p2 if you repeat the move. But yeah, the prorations really just tell us why we see people doing the stuff they are doing in the arcade. 3cc rapids, and koromo（for kiba) combos into the DP chain. re: hazama, even if you burst out of his DD combos, you still take a large chunk of damage because it isn't safe to brust for a good bit of time. with tsubaki, you can just burst immediately after the DP. If they made it harder for people to safely burst during your combo, then it could work.. Edited December 2, 2011 by Errol
BatousaiJ Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Not using the same D move in a single combo is something I've always done due to repeat proration so that's no big deal. I've also seen 4k+ damage off a 22D starter(2 charge combo) in the corner in a extend video so the proration of it as a starter isn't as bad as you think it is.
Errol Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Nod, hence a buff that doesn't really change a thing. Somewhat agree on proration, even with similar prorations you're going to get a lot more damage off a 214d starter than a jab starter. Because one starts you off with 900 damage and the other starts you off with 150. So maybe you'll do the same damage.. minus that 750 difference, that is, which is a pretty large base amount. Higher the damage on a move is, the lower you should expect the proration to be really...
Tari Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Higher the damage on a move is, the lower you should expect the proration to be really... edit: Oh, never mind. Misread it (I hate proration 'more/less' terms). Gonna leave this list here anyway. Rachel: Level 2/3 j.2C - 1200/2000 dmg - 100 P1, 94 P2 Hakumen: Zantetsu - 2430 + 550 dmg - 90 P1, 80/94 P2 Platinum: Mami Circular - 1690 dmg - 100 P1, 92 P2
Daedron Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Nod, hence a buff that doesn't really change a thing. Somewhat agree on proration, even with similar prorations you're going to get a lot more damage off a 214d starter than a jab starter. Because one starts you off with 900 damage and the other starts you off with 150. So maybe you'll do the same damage.. minus that 750 difference, that is, which is a pretty large base amount. Higher the damage on a move is, the lower you should expect the proration to be really... Right, I forgot to take the base damage into account.
Tsubaki 5B Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 teh might as well use mugen cuz from wat i've seen her drive moves haven't changed much at all really
AchedSphinx Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 So I was thinking of maining Tsubaki, and I'm curious if people use challenge mode combo 8. I can't seem to nail it at all lol.
Tsubaki 5B Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 So I was thinking of maining Tsubaki, and I'm curious if people use challenge mode combo 8. I can't seem to nail it at all lol. well in different variations but wat part are you having trouble with?
Daedron Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) Urgh...seriously. I still can't play this game online, tons of lag everywhere even with people from EU and 3-4 bar connections. There are only certain people I can still have a relatively lag-free match with nowadays, it's beginning to piss me off cause I wanna get back into this game with Extend coming out in 2 weeks and all... I've tried everything EXCEPT putting my PS3 in a DMZ or whatever, I never had to do that before I got my new router though. And what would having a new router fuck up anyways? The only difference is that this one also has wireless capabilities but I am obviously not using wireless on my PS3, just wire. So unless that wireless connection somehow fucks up the wired connection... So I was thinking of maining Tsubaki, and I'm curious if people use challenge mode combo 8. I can't seem to nail it at all lol. That combo ends in an air combo, generally speaking you should never ever end your combos with an air ender, since you lose oki (unless you intend to go for the j.D - air dash - j.CC oki, but that's better used in Extend). I personally use this combo instead: Air throw - 6C - 236D - 5C - 2CC - 22C - 6C - 236B - 214B - 22B = 3.1K Of course this is from midscreen to corner, your opponent needs to be in the corner after 22C otherwise you can't hit with 6C, but you only lose out on a fraction of the damage anyways. For a corner air throw combo, I use this: Air throw - 6C - 214D - 5C - 2CC - 22C - dash - 5C - 2C - 236B - 214B - 22B = 3.4K With both combos you can add a super at the end for another 800 damage. In any case, the most important part of the challenge combo 8 is to get the IAD (instant air dash) part right, though to be honest you're pretty far into the hitstun scaling by that point and the timing is a lot tighter, so you might want to practice doing it off of an easier starter first. 214D - 2CC - IAD - j.CC - land - 5B - 2CC - 236B - 214B - 22B is the combo you should be practicing as a starting point. Once you get the IAD part down, it's time to move on to Tsubaki's DP whiff combos to increase your overall midscreen damage (and corner in some cases), but I believe I am typing this in General non-related BB chat, so it might be better to ask this in the questions thread. Hope this helps. Edited December 5, 2011 by Daedron
AchedSphinx Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 well in different variations but wat part are you having trouble with? The IAD part. Once I do it, my mind sort of blanks on how the rest is supposed to connect. I got the gist of her combos down at least. 5B only right? Once you get the IAD part down, it's time to move on to Tsubaki's DP whiff combos to increase your overall midscreen damage (and corner in some cases), but I believe I am typing this in General non-related BB chat, so it might be better to ask this in the questions thread. Hope this helps. Actually, I was curious about it's usefulness, but I didn't realize it was the wrong thread for that haha, sorry about that. Thanks for the tips though. It'll be quite helpful when I spend a few hours trying to nail these combos.
BatousaiJ Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 The standard DP whiff(623C > j.214A > dash 2CC) will be irrelevant come Extend. However, IAD will be just as essential as ever so get the timing down on that first and foremost. For beginners, I tell them to practice it this way until they can get it 100% and then move on to the tighter links involving IAD and others 214D > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B Do I need to hard reset the router after I made the changes? I tested it out in BB after I made these changes but I've been kicked 2 times so far and made my own room and had people leave out of the room I made sending me a message "too much lag" This is getting kind of ridiculous to be honest ;/ Here's a simple solution. Come to the States, preferably the east coast. I'll play with ya =d.
Daedron Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 The standard DP whiff(623C > j.214A > dash 2CC) will be irrelevant come Extend. However, IAD will be just as essential as ever so get the timing down on that first and foremost. That is not to say DP whiff will be completely useless to learn now, since we can still go into an air combo after 623C > j.214A apparently. It might be handy to at least learn it so you can do it quickly, cause hitting with j.C is apparently pretty tight, you probably have to use j.214A pretty quickly after 623C.
Star-Demon Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I don't understand what the DP whiff actually does. :O
BatousaiJ Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I don't understand what the DP whiff actually does. :O Watch some combos videos, they're kinda used everywhere in CS 2.
Rhiya Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I don't understand what the DP whiff actually does. :O All of the things. All of them. Seriously, it's in pretty much every good Tsubaki combo >_>
Velvien Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I don't understand what the DP whiff actually does. :O MAGIC. By which I mean damn good damage and corner carry. And it's fun.
HajinShinobi Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 DP Whiff combos provide Tsubaki with very good corner carry and oki. The damage always ranges from 2.4k and higher, depending on what variation you're using. And you're pretty much guaranteed 1 full bar of stock after the knockdown (two if you're far away enough).
Tsubaki 5B Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 IAD combos are also good for corner carry but that's if you have meter or get a well timed anti air 2CC
HajinShinobi Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 IAD combos are also good for corner carry but that's if you have meter or get a well timed anti air 2CC You forgot about counter-hit 22X series (not the D version).
Daedron Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Some new Tsubaki stuff in the latest videos PK uploaded. 2.5K-ish from 5B(CH) - 6CC - 236C - 214A - 5C - 2C - 236B - 214B - 22B about 4.6K from 22D - 3CC - rapid - 6CC - 623C - j.236A(whiff) - j.214D - j.D - j.C - 5C - 2C - j.C - j.CC - j.236A - j.214A With the counterassault changes making them a lot more risky to use than ever and the reduced damage on 236236C, we should probably have enough meter to spend for the 3CC. Really wonder how much damage that would have done if it went straight into 6CC - 623C - j.214D though...hmm
Kiba Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) I have a feeling it would have done less damage, and if the damage difference is that significant, then there is a reason to definately use 3CC - RC in combos if we can. 3CC seems to have really good proration both for P1 and P2. 3C© also seems to be extremely good because we can get a double IAD combo into around 4.6k w/o stock, but of course, how likely is that? Edited December 6, 2011 by Kiba
Errol Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 damage should og even higher with an extra charge for the j236d>j214D series.. I don't think you need to do 623D to get the proration bonus.
Daedron Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I have a feeling it would have done less damage, and if the damage difference is that significant, then there is a reason to definately use 3CC - RC in combos if we can. 3CC seems to have really good proration both for P1 and P2. 3C© also seems to be extremely good because we can get a double IAD combo into around 4.6k w/o stock, but of course, how likely is that? That + the 20% bonus proration we get from 3CC. .
HajinShinobi Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Some new Tsubaki stuff in the latest videos PK uploaded. 2.5K-ish from 5B(CH) - 6CC - 236C - 214A - 5C - 2C - 236B - 214B - 22B about 4.6K from 22D - 3CC - rapid - 6CC - 623C - j.236A(whiff) - j.214D - j.D - j.C - 5C - 2C - j.C - j.CC - j.236A - j.214A I'm liking the CH 5B combo Kuresu did, and it still consists of our corner carry and some oki as well. Seeing some damage above 3k without Mugen is good news too. Also I doubt having to adjust to the j.D > j.C stuff in corner combos wont be so difficult either.
Recommended Posts