Errol Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 I saw this an remembered I used to play Mu. Good times. Honest, probably most chars can get 5k pretty easily off a gold burst, but I get 2k every time and that's about it. have to burn 100 meter and 5 charges to get over 5k... Valk gets it with one super that he buidls the heat for during the gold burst combo
Naphiel Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 I wouldn't compare most characters to Valk, some of the stuff he's capable of is fairly silly. I know what you're getting at though. The only other character I can see having trouble getting decent damage for affordable meter usage is Makoto.
SansProtocol Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 What do you expect? It's hard to hit stuff properly when you're blind.
Tsubaki 5B Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 I wouldn't compare most characters to Valk, some of the stuff he's capable of is fairly silly. I know what you're getting at though. The only other character I can see having trouble getting decent damage for affordable meter usage is Makoto.interesting that bring up another topic has makoto fallen off the face of the earth cause nobody uses her anymore i mean it's worse then the tsubaki population back in cs1 maybe even now but yea i wanna get some training in but just finding ragna's in player and ranked sigh
Airk Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 interesting that bring up another topic has makoto fallen off the face of the earth cause nobody uses her anymore i mean it's worse then the tsubaki population back in cs1 maybe even now but yea i wanna get some training in but just finding ragna's in player and ranked sigh Well, I'm sure it doesn't help that 90% of the people who picked her in CS2 picked her because she was top tier. I've run into one or two people playing Makoto online. She didn't, honestly, seem that bad.
Naphiel Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Well, I'm sure it doesn't help that 90% of the people who picked her in CS2 picked her because she was top tier. I've run into one or two people playing Makoto online. She didn't, honestly, seem that bad. She suffers because any damage she can do is off hits you shouldn't be using in pressure and that she has a lot of trouble dealing with any of the top tier characters.
Airk Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 She suffers because any damage she can do is off hits you shouldn't be using in pressure and that she has a lot of trouble dealing with any of the top tier characters. Well, I can't argue the latter, but a glance at her EX combo thread in the Makoto forums says she does: Low 2k meterless midscreen off a jab. (Pretty average) 2700ish meterless midscreen off her (still quite fast) overhead. (Not Ragna level, but not bad at all) 5k off a 5B in the corner for 50 meter. (Valk level damage, though not necessarily heat gain) 3k off a throw midscreen 4k off a 5B midscreen with 50 meter. None of that looks like "any damage she can do is off hits you shouldn't be using" unless the only attacks you should be using are jabs? Her damage just doesn't seem that bad? I think the biggest problem is that playstyle-wise she's not very different from Ragna, and if you had to choose, why not take the easy-peasy "I do 4k from my overhead, midscreen, LoL" character?
Naphiel Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Oh, well Makoto players have really put some work in since I last checked. Never mind, her damage isn't as bad as I thought.
Airk Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Oh, well Makoto players have really put some work in since I last checked. Never mind, her damage isn't as bad as I thought. This is probably why she's crept out of "C Tier" in some of the latest tier lists.
TD Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 theres a recent tier list? do you have a link? l wanna see :o
Airk Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Makoto's problem isn't really damage anyway. Go on. Enlighten the masses.
Errol Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Not much to it, like the numbers you posted, she has pretty fair damage off things. It's really all neutral, loss of oki, etc. Go look at her hitboxes and compare them to CS2. Virtually every hitbox she has got nerfed. Mostly though, this aligns with what I've read on jbbs anyway.. damage is fine, neutral is the problem.
Naphiel Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Well I didn't mean that was her only problem or anything, I just didn't want to go into massive detail because I don't know tons about the character. I just looked for something else to say besides she has trouble with top tier, because so does most of the cast. They're considered top tier for a reason. A weak neutral game is her biggest flaw.
LuminAbyss Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Neutral would be a problem when you have characters like Ragna and Valk, who get damage AND can space. They beat Makoto out so easily at neutral it's kind of sad really.
StarGazer Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) i am pretty sure everyone used to call her neutral game good ~ broken back in CS2 Edited May 10, 2012 by StarGazer
LuminAbyss Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Ragna has always outspaced her with little problem. I'm sure it's not bad, but when you compare it to a lot of other characters, it was never really her strong point. And now it's just worse because her best damage is not off max-range, while Ragna can get 4k with meter off max range. And meterless, he always gets 1.9k and knockdown. Basically, she has to work harder at neutral. Which, when combined with her weakened reward and other nerfs, makes her a worse character overall. Edited May 10, 2012 by LuminAbyss
eQualz Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Guys, guys, guuys! Are you serious? 7k damage of a 5A :O (Ok, it's a 5 charge, mugen combo but still.) This is sooo much fun. Also how often do you actually land the j.BB combo? I have hard time confirming it seeing people are chrouching most of the time and that causes me to auto-pilot into DP whiff combo.
TD Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 James posted an update in his tier list thread around the beginning of april, which as far as I know is as recent as it gets. ah. thank you, thank you- it just amazes me how rachel can be so low/in the lower tiers though.
Kriegdrache Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 lol, I remember deciding I wanted to try Makoto, did a few of her challenges and simply went "fuck this" and went back to Hakumen. CS2 <3
TheGreatReptar Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 The j.BBC loop almost always drops at j.C on a third loop if you're using 3 hits to confirm it. I like doing dash>5C>neutral jump>j.BC>j.236C for a crossover reset on the third loop when I still have more charge to burn. The easiest way to go into it is off of 236D>5C, since 236D forces standing. Other than that, you just have to confirm that the opponent's standing.
Errol Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 5a>5bb is probably the only way to confirm into the loop normally. That starter still gets you 2.5k. 236D is great for it though.
Mucky Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 CS2: mash j.A -> confirm into combo that does 3k damage and carries all the way from one corner into the other Makoto deserved to be nerfed. I am dancing on her grave.
TheGreatReptar Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Yo, I have a new favorite thing. 5C>delay>C>6C. 5CC>6C only gatlings on hit, so it confirms itself =O
YukiBlue Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Mhm. So I'm balling around in training mode for a good 30 minutes with Tsubaki today. Practicing the green combos. Getting a feel for her and all that. Especially my defence game. Then, after doing my first Mugen combo (Nothing flash. Just a BNB really...) I just sat down and realised that her damage output is laughable. Seriously. She's fun, unique, and I like girls with red hair. But wow. Wow.
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