BatousaiJ Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 The opponent will have no reason to block low after a jump cancellable 3C.... It should work since everyone will be on the look out for this BnB 3C > RC > 3C > RC > 3C. On a sideactualnote, I've been having a lot of success with 5A > 5C > 6C > jC j.© whiff > 2B as a part of my mix up. If you delay the j.C just enough, it'll look like it's coming out but get canceled by landing and you can go directly into 2B from there. Visually, it's quite convincing looking as you can choose to not delay the j.C to make it hit which will stuff people who try to anticipate the low or try to press buttons before you land.
Adelheid Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 The opponent will have no reason to block low after a jump cancellable 3C.... They will if we make it special cancellable and make 22A a low.
BatousaiJ Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 They will if we make it special cancellable and make 22A a low. That one got a nice "ahaha" out of me Heidi. Well done.
Kiba Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I've been having a lot of success with 5A > 5C > 6C > jC j.© whiff > 2B as a part of my mix up. If you delay the j.C just enough, it'll look like it's coming out but get canceled by landing and you can go directly into 2B from there. Visually, it's quite convincing looking as you can choose to not delay the j.C to make it hit which will stuff people who try to anticipate the low or try to press buttons before you land. Players DP me after a j.C, or even throw me before the 2B comes out. It'll only really work against really honest players and even then I still may go for a 2A/5A because I'm afraid of getting thrown and it's quicker. Still posting nonsense are we? Even if 22A was a low, it has horrible P1 and the recovery is quite bad which may make following up difficult.
BatousaiJ Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Obviously it's not going to work in every situation but it's a option well worth knowing when you're trying to crack open a tough defense. We've had the discussion about knowing what's tight and what has gaps and etc so you can option select properly based on mind games. More options you are aware of = a more versatile offense. You disagree?
Errol Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) The opponent will have no reason to block low after a jump cancellable 3C.... since when do things I post have to make sense... about jc delay. Yeah, it makes sense to me. I'll use 2b after a JC, even though it is just about the slowest 2b in the entire game. I hadn't thought about how you could put out the JC and have it get canceled due to landing ------ which would be a nice thing about j.236C being an overhead, same thing going on there, but it just isn't an overhead right now. Edited April 2, 2012 by Errol
Kiba Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Obviously it's not going to work in every situation but it's a option well worth knowing when you're trying to crack open a tough defense. We've had the discussion about knowing what's tight and what has gaps and etc so you can option select properly based on mind games. More options you are aware of = a more versatile offense. You disagree? I do not.
BatousaiJ Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Oh and if memory serves, in one of the loketests for CS2 they had j.214x as an overhead and then quickly removed it so I doubt we'll see it again since they tested it already and deemed that probably shouldn't put it in there.
Errol Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Ya, I don't think it needs it, but it would be cool on j236b and j236c. although the frame advantage on them might be too much if they were.
redsilversnake Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 Then you must be better than Konan. Totally. Netplay is filled with players better than anyone he's faced, so I just had to get better than him by necessity. God, keeping a straight face while writing that was hard. Feel free to elaborate on this, because I don't even know what you mean by "5B's SD". o.o SD is short for static difference, which refers to frame (dis)advantage. In other words, I can understand making 5B - on block, but not the extra frame of startup. Anyway, the Batousai post Errol quoted outdoes anything of mine, so I'll stop here.
Errol Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 Well, I don't exactly base my opinion on what should change upon random people on netplay either. Theoretically, it seems like it'd make more sense to look at what it's like for someone like konan playing against others. But, you know, I also enjoy CSEX pretty much as it is. Not to mention that I'm not a level where there is any point to complaining about tiers or anything anyway.
Errol Posted April 8, 2012 Posted April 8, 2012 5b>5bb is tight if they're barriering. Interesting. Thought it was just 1 frame penalty on barrier, is 5b>5bb just a 1 frame gap?
Eshi Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 I completely dropped tsubaki for makoto when extend came out, spent a day relearning tsubaki's new combos, and found out last friday that my tsubaki is still better than my makoto. /facepalm
Kiba Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 In the corner, you can go for this little gimmick. 6CC OTG > 22D > Dash 5D So for example, you would do 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214D > 6CC > 22D > Dash 5D. From there, you'll have your back to the corner and you'll have a few options: -If your opponent neutral techs you can cross under with a dash 2A and have them back in the corner. 2B can be used to cross under too but not completely recommended because it's slower. You could even go for a meaty unblockable. -If your opponent rolls you can catch the roll with 2B/3C. It costs one stock however, and it isn't exactly a fantastic setup because there's no telling how your opponent is going to react if you attempt to dash under 2A. This is where you'd use 2B I guess, because it'll catch rolls and cross under at the same time. You can use that to condition them, and then start applying the mindgames, forcing them to neutral tech. Just something I discovered and thought I should throw out. It's also worth noting that I do not take complete credit for this since -Kid helped me out lol.
Kujikawa Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) Does Tsubaki have any way she can sort of bait reversals with her unblockable set-ups? I know it sounds weird, but if the opponent can just mash out of all your set-ups it seems kinda' pointless. Edited April 14, 2012 by Kujikawa
Kiba Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 I do not believe so. Setups 1-6 in the unblockable compilation all lose to reversals. They can't retaliate if they're trapped in setup 8, and I'm unsure if setup 7 loses to reversals. Probably does. On the other hand it's not so pointless when your opponent virtually has to answer to them, (or it's difficult for them to retaliate) such as Platinum w/o bat or heat, and Lambda.
Kujikawa Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 What about Hazama's Jayoku? Does it trade in his favor?
BatousaiJ Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 If your opponent is just mashing DP on your unblockable setups, you're being predictable with them and doing it wrong. Otherwise, during dropped combo setups where there's no teching involving, just simply let go of 22D early to bait jump attempts, jabs or DPs with a 1-2 frame gap and you should catch all of those.
Kiba Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 What about Hazama's Jayoku? Does it trade in his favor? It should do. If your opponent is just mashing DP on your unblockable setups, you're being predictable with them and doing it wrong. Or the opponent may not know what the hell is going on, and they could just be a violent masher, lol.
Airk Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Or the opponent may not know what the hell is going on, and they could just be a violent masher, lol. In which case, screw the unblockable setups. Pretend like you're going to do one, let them DP thin air, and then hit them with whatever as they come down. No need for unblockables if your opponent isn't gonna block.
Kiba Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Pretend like you're going to do one, let them DP thin air, and then hit them with whatever as they come down. No need for unblockables if your opponent isn't gonna block. I can see this situation happening a lot tbh. It used to happen with me ocassionally. Guess it can be used as a decoy. There are a lot of mindgames involving 22D which is cool.
pktazn Posted April 14, 2012 Author Posted April 14, 2012 Once Tsubaki has one charge your fun for mind games increases since so many options are available with it. Will you use it at that moment or won't you? What move are you going to use it with? What are you planning? I've been told before by people I played with that they change how they approach/respond to her since they don't know what you're going to do with that charge.
BatousaiJ Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Or the opponent may not know what the hell is going on, and they could just be a violent masher, lol. Oh good, I wanted to practice 6CC starter Mugen combos!
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