[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi General - Gameplay Discussion

[TheGreatReptar]

There's at least a 7 frame gap between 5B and 6C on the ground. You can madh throw between hits. Tsubaki can stick out 5C and CH you if they IBed. If 5B hits non-CH air hit, the other person can tech and hit you on the way down while you're recovering from whiffed 6C.

You're playing bad people if it doesn't happen to you. I can think of like 3 instances where the latter happened to me last tournament I was at.

And by autopilot, Errol meant just buffering it behind 5B without the 5B punishing something.

[Errol]

Yeah I don't know a good word for it in english. but when you input 5b > 6c assuming the 5b is going to hit. OS is a bad name for that. 

5C > 6c is even worse. 

[Zouf]

There's at least a 7 frame gap between 5B and 6C on the ground. You can madh throw between hits. Tsubaki can stick out 5C and CH you if they IBed. If 5B hits non-CH air hit, the other person can tech and hit you on the way down while you're recovering from whiffed 6C.

You're playing bad people if it doesn't happen to you. I can think of like 3 instances where the latter happened to me last tournament I was at.

And by autopilot, Errol meant just buffering it behind 5B without the 5B punishing something.

There is a 7 frames gap.

 

Meaning the opponent needs to mash a A move (or DP obviously) to punish you. Or throw, but that won't work if you are at max range of 5B.

 

And as I said, if you are spamming 6C, it will obviously happen. Or if your pressure is full of gap (well, Tsubaki...) and the opponent tends to mash. Aren't YOU playing bad people if they are mashing senselessly? I mean, everyone can mash here and there alright, but to mash in this specific gap is a huge risk as 6C is a godlike starter for us. 

 

I'm pretty confident that if you are using it like only 1 time in a match, or if you are mixing alright, you'll almost never get punished for it. Or we need to stop pressuring our opponent, because Tsubaki is like the worst character in the game for this kind of playstyle.

 

@Errol : you can "feel" that 5B will hit (on hit or on guard) depending on your opponent playstyle and movement. That's not 100% accurate, but we're in a fighting game, nothing is 100% sure (unless you are playing Koko :P )

[Errol]

range doesn't even matter

 

6c moves tsubaki so far forward that if something comes out in that gap you're dead. 

 

and to the degree that you use 5b 6c people will aim to stop it. if there's something that you have to say 'well only do it like once a match', shit... How can you even begin to say it's safe. If it were safe you wouldn't have to do it like once a match!  You could really use this as a definition for safe. 

 

the point is, you have be really careful about how you use gatlings into 6c, because it can go wrong for you so easily. 

[TheGreatReptar]

That's like saying 623C>j.214D is safe if you only do it once per match because the other person messed up and did a move too slow to punish it. 

[Zouf]

Hardly as j.214D is super unsafe on guard, unlike 6C.

 

There is a difference between punishing an unsafe move and punishing before the move even start.

 

Well i won't change my mind about it, 6C is pretty safe by any means. From my experience and the 21908219 matches I've watched, 5B > 6C was almost never punished.

 

@Errol : you can't throw 6C if 5B hits at max range. Throw will whiff

[Kiba]

I didn't think this'll go on for so long. 5B/5C > 6C blockstring really that good eh?

 

Hi. 7f gap in between 5B/5C > 6C is cool I guess. I've been poked out of it at times, and I play good players, most noticeably my brother who plays Ragna and it can be frustrating getting poked out of everything. However, I would say it may not be completely worth trying to hit Tsubaki out of that blockstring because it can be a big risk, of course this doesn't apply to Kagura or Tager. So if you're using it against those two characters then something is not right. I wouldn't try to poke Tsubaki out of it but rather I'd focus on the followups. It's not very useful in blockstrings, just for gimmicky shit.

 

95% of what Tsubaki does is unsafe anyway, so, whatever.

[Zouf]

95% of what Tsubaki does is unsafe anyway, so, whatever.

 

 

That sums it up nicely I guess

[BatousaiJ]

5B > 6C gatling isn't the worst thing in the world since if you expect them to try to mash out of it, you can just delay a 5C for a frame trap to fish for counter hits and I don't need to tell you how damaging 5C CH > 6C etc etc combos can be. 

 

Still, it's generally a bad gatling unless you're playing against someone that's not familiar with the match up and are not expecting the jump cancel after blocked 6C (this is back in with the upcoming patch, right?). 

 

People autopilot 5BB all the time but it's usually better to just throw out 5B in neutral and react to the the hit/block/CH after it lands. With how shitty 5BB forward momentum is now, even a hit 5B doesn't guarantee the 5BB will hit.  

[Mcgreag]

It's not like to do 5B > 6C when you expect the 5B to be blocked or even if you expect it to hit. You do it when you think you will get a CH.

[Errol]

you can never know you'll get a ch, you have to get good at guessing when you will. but you can always end up in a really bad spot if you try. backdashes and jump outs are a good example. so you want to know the places your opponent is likely to backdash or jump, but you really can't always know. and it's probably a good idea too to try to limit it to when you'll get a lot out of it. charge and meter for example. no charge, no meter, stay away.

 

if you look at konan, you'll see he uses it not that much, and often doesn't work out for him.

[Airk]

5B > 6C gatling isn't the worst thing in the world since if you expect them to try to mash out of it, you can just delay a 5C for a frame trap to fish for counter hits and I don't need to tell you how damaging 5C CH > 6C etc etc combos can be. 

 

Still, it's generally a bad gatling unless you're playing against someone that's not familiar with the match up and are not expecting the jump cancel after blocked 6C (this is back in with the upcoming patch, right?). 

 

People autopilot 5BB all the time but it's usually better to just throw out 5B in neutral and react to the the hit/block/CH after it lands. With how shitty 5BB forward momentum is now, even a hit 5B doesn't guarantee the 5BB will hit.  

 

Pretty sure 6C JC was never 'out' for the upcoming patch, they're just adding special cancellability and making it more negative on block due to hitstop shenanigans.  Not super clear on that though, the translations were always iffy.

 

Autopiloting 5BB has been my bane forever, and it sucks even more in this game. (I really wish I understood why they thought 5BB needed to be nerfed in multiple ways.  Was our mixup off it 'too good'? Haha.)

[Errol]

the translations were never iffy.

[Kiba]

Updated combo thread with 2B/j.C starters. Tsubaki's combos don't change in 1.1 (or barely change) so I will not be creating a new combo thread.

 

Archived FAQ thread and placed questions in first post in Q&A thread.

[BatousaiJ]

Kiba, the thing that we were talking about was a simple fake crossover setup using the following -> 

 

Knockdown corner -> Blade Super -> they neutral tech and start blocking -> 236D as quick as you can.

 

The following will have a result where you'll look like you crossed him over but end up on the same side and you can press whatever button you want.

 

If you suspect they'll mash you can gatling 214D for a quick same side and you always have the option of making the 236D actually crossover by simply by delaying the 236D.

 

What happens here is that that while the crossover property of 236D tries to trigger, the blade super is constantly pushing them in the corner leaving you no room to be there and you just end up on the same side.

 

Obviously, 236D is unsafe and has limited value so it's best to used on unsuspecting people, especially if you can gatling into 214D for very quick same side or opposite side move with body invincibility.

 

The other thing is the 46D > 236D vacuum effect for corner cross over with RC.

 

It's just that simple, make them block 46D > 236D in the corner(pretty easy to make them do) and you can RC > IAD j.B/C and you'll cross them over to the corner, it's super ambiguous and hard to see. Easy to confirm and combo off of as long as you land the j.B/C properly as well but of course, it's rather resource intensive so it's one to hold in your pocket for a rainy day when you need to break out something they've never seen before.

 

Hope that clears things up, Kiba and is useful to some of you. 

[Kiba]

I see!

As you said they're resource heavy but I kinda like the 2nd one. Thanks for clarifying for me I'll get it down in the strategy guide!

[Svamparn]

 

 

The other thing is the 46D > 236D vacuum effect for corner cross over with RC.

 

It's just that simple, make them block 46D > 236D in the corner(pretty easy to make them do) and you can RC > IAD j.B/C and you'll cross them over to the corner, it's super ambiguous and hard to see. Easy to confirm and combo off of as long as you land the j.B/C properly as well but of course, it's rather resource intensive so it's one to hold in your pocket for a rainy day when you need to break out something they've never seen before.

 

Hope that clears things up, Kiba and is useful to some of you. 

 

I just looked into this some more and thought if this maybe was possible with only using 236D RC aswell and it is.

 

This gives us the option of doing this with 1charge and 50% instead of 2charge but there are a few thing to be considered.

 

1. The 236D has less blockstun so leaves more room open for mash.

2. There is no tight blockstring from normals into 236D except from 6C (6C > 2369D) while [4]6D 236D is possible to do tight from more normals. (They can still SRK between the fireball and 236D if the fireball is instantblocked but i doubt people will do that)

 

While Tsubaki already has alot of holes in her blockstrings the 236D gives us a less "safe" way to get the crossup j.B/C in the corner compared to [4]6D >236D but it also gives us the option to do this with less resources.

[BatousaiJ]

Oh? I guess the vacuum effect triggers from the crossover effect of 236D by itself.

 

Good to know. 

[Airk]

the translations were never iffy.

okay, lemme rephrase.

 

There was lots of arguing about what they actually meant.

[Errol]

okay, lemme rephrase.

 

There was lots of arguing about what they actually meant.

 

there was a lot of explaining to people who didn't understand what they meant.

 

But I gotcha. 

[Kiba]

2A seems to be used as a situational AA sometimes if you take a look at the recent videos. Seems to be useful in places where 2C won't work such as against Jin's j.2C. Useful little note.

[Airk]

2A seems to be used as a situational AA sometimes if you take a look at the recent videos. Seems to be useful in places where 2C won't work such as against Jin's j.2C. Useful little note.

 

I was noticing Konan doing that too;  Looks like it's the equivalent of what a bunch of other characters do (Jin and Litchi both come to mind here, though humorously, both of THEM just got given excellent 'standard' anti-airs.).  The only problem I can see with this is...how do you know WHEN to use it?

[D.R.F.]

I was noticing Konan doing that too; Looks like it's the equivalent of what a bunch of other characters do (Jin and Litchi both come to mind here, though humorously, both of THEM just got given excellent 'standard' anti-airs.). The only problem I can see with this is...how do you know WHEN to use it?

Really low slow jump ins? Like close to your hitbox?

[chzchan]

Just recently I began cycling through different corner ball oki enders, and, though the j.236A one is the one I had been relying on the most, I have found myself using one that I used to just throw in for fun much more often.

After the 22B in the corner, it would be the usual 5D > 5C > 2CC, but instead of jumping, I'd just throw out a ground fireball right there. Of course it loses to delayed techs, but it catches the hell out of neutral air techs and it just feels a lot safer, especially when going in for a command grab right as they touch down if they blocked.

I wonder if anything will change with 1.1's faster ground fireball.

[Kiba]

It'll also lose to aerial forward techs so there's a lack of stability, but > 5C > 2C > [4]6C catches forward techs.