Zouf Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 Alternatively, if you had the charge you can do this instead: FC 3CC > 5C > 236D > 6C > j.D > j.C > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B for 4.2k... Good combo, thanks
chzchan Posted June 4, 2014 Posted June 4, 2014 I have been trying to come up with some ultra ghetto resets. I am not exactly sure if they are practical, but I have been able to catch people off guard with a few of these. 6A > 5CC > 6BB > 214B > 5C > 2C > 214B > 5C > 623C > etc. The tech should happen after 5C hits and 623C should catch them regardless of which direction they air tech. You will only be able to combo off of a forward or neutral air tech, though. Very handy if you have 1 charge when near a corner or two charges anywhere on the screen. This takes advantage of 623C's air unblockable attribute along with its massive amount of active frames that extend on to the top of the screen and beyond. It only works if your opponent doesn't immediately air barrier guard out of the tech, but that has rarely happened. 5BB > 5CC > 236B > 214D > 5A/B/C > 623C(delay) > etc. Same over here as well with the air unblockable and whatnot. Just need to delay 623C a bit so that it doesn't become a combo. 5A > 5BB > 5CC > 236B > 214D > 5A > 623C > etc. Similar to above, but without the need to delay 623C because of 5A being an S starter. 6A > 5CC > 6BB > 214B > 5C > 2C > 214B > 6C > etc. This time you would not go for the 5C and let the tech happen after the second 214B which should incur SMP. Regardless of which direction they decide to tech, if they decide to go for the earliest possible window while in the air, you will be able to catch them and go into a full combo off a 6C starter because of huge step forward that is made. This takes advantage of 6C's air unblockable attribute and active frames as well and just like the 623C version, does not work if you opponent air barriers out of the tech. There is a sort of sweet spot that you have to land the 5C after the initial 214B when your opponent near the middle of the window you have to land 5C. Too low allows neutral techs to leave your opponent on the ground before 6C hits. Too high and your opponent will cross over you. 6A > 5CC > 6B > CT > etc. Not sure about how safe this is. 6A > 5CC > 6B{B} > 421D > 236D > 6C > CT > etc. Same with this one. Follow up to 6B is better left out due to range constraints of 421D projectile in a combo. Anyone else feeling creative? I know these are pretty terrible, so I am hoping that others out there might have some ideas as well.
Errol Posted June 4, 2014 Posted June 4, 2014 the problem with most of the resets I see you post is that they are blatantly not normal tsubaki combos. you give obvious tells that you are doing something by trying to rely on them holding a button to tech after an smp 214B. past a certain level a lot of people are going to stop holding a button to tech combos in general. there are setups that you can do that don't give them time to react generally, and don't tell what you're doing, and don't commit you to a dp (low reward, high risk, high cost). for example SMP 6C into IAD something. SMP 6C into command grab. or CT?etc the CT resets are probably the safest ones there.
chzchan Posted June 4, 2014 Posted June 4, 2014 I do a lot of combos involving 214D and 214B repeating when I'm online to take the place of the IAD combos because I can't do IAD with lag, so I thought it would be confusing enough. I understand what you mean, though. Oh well. I'll see what else I can come up with.
Errol Posted June 4, 2014 Posted June 4, 2014 unfortunately anything involving air techs is going to be sketchy because there is just too much flexibility with when and how you can air tech, and with how short it is.
TeeJay Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Ok Errol, ggs. I might have done better against that Tsubaki perhaps, but that Rachel was killin' me. Specifically, what parts of my play are yolo or need to be "less yolo?" I think I played too much air game but playing controlled completely killed my aggression and made me play very passively. I have way more questions than answers because I really was lost had no mental adjustments to apply. I have no idea why I keep forgetting the command grab in pressure. I played over 10 matches without using it? That fraudulent first match haha. ggs again.
Errol Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 any time you use 214b outsode of a combo, ever, it's in the super yolo category. excessive use of 22b. bad on block. if you use it you need to at least get a good combo when you get a CH (6C). strange use of air throws, weird air movement/buttons. JCC is a bad thing to do on whiff. You put yourself into bad situations spacing wise even if you don't get directly punished. Wasting meter on blade super, particularly getting hit out of full screen by lobelias. mostly that. of course, dping without meter against pumpkin oki is almost always a bad idea too.
TeeJay Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 any time you use 214b outsode of a combo, ever, it's in the super yolo category. excessive use of 22b. bad on block. if you use it you need to at least get a good combo when you get a CH (6C). strange use of air throws, weird air movement/buttons. JCC is a bad thing to do on whiff. You put yourself into bad situations spacing wise even if you don't get directly punished. Wasting meter on blade super, particularly getting hit out of full screen by lobelias. mostly that. of course, dping without meter against pumpkin oki is almost always a bad idea too. I had to adjust to some things from Rachel players-- hadn't fought one yet that beat me consistently. Some of that was a lack of Rachel situational experience which I hope I adapted to. I don't recall the super counter after match 3 or 4. I need to figure out what those bats do. I was sad that i missed the counter-hit wall-bounce 22b. I failed to recognize free combos but I'll look to use it less. I've been using it as a bad crutch to cover my reset predictability. I honestly have no idea why I was using IAD JCC so far before IAD block to cover distance. I don't know if it was subconsciously panic-preemptive or subconscious Tager JC distance covering. Both are quite bad. What I want to do on block is either JC, JC (delay) C (didn't do it once), or JC grab. I'm starting to wonder if I'm more of a know-the-theory fighter rather than a in-practice player. I don't apply what I do know well at all. Thanks for the feedback
Errol Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 bats make wind strong. if you have a bat on you, lobelias go super fast, george rams into you from full screen, etc. 22B is cool, I should probably use it some more. but you use it a lot, and it's not so good on block, and it is fairly slow now (22a was great.. removed).
TeeJay Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 (I'm sure it's public knowledge). Wow, my mind is blown on how late I am realizing this: I've been subconsciously holding 3C which makes the followup input come out automatically (I have horrible input ineptitude). The distance is also hugely shorter than when you tap 3C. The entire time, I've been like, what the heck happened to it's range from CS and how is this neutral viable sparingly? Any reason to use the shorter one? Speaking of silly inputting, I have the horrible habit of multi-tapping buttons in certain situations (or in general). Hakumen and Azrael can be pretty tricky to me, especially in match situations. For instance, I kind've mash 2CC a bit in combos which isn't a problem until some 22D 5C 2CC corner combos. You'd think as a pianist, hornist and saxophonist, hitting buttons on a stick would make things natural, but..... I actually would be a lot more comfortable with a weighted stick (weighted piano keys can be a big deal). Working on adding some deliberate habits to everything I do (neutral especially).
Airk Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 Huh, I didn't even realize you could hold 3C; Sometimes I used to mash it, and that does the same thing, but I've mostly trained myself out of that. The only time I can think of when you might want to use a shorter version is when you see your opponent jumping. But yeah, I feel your pain. I am only very slowly getting rid of mashing habits. Interestingly, combos I learn NOW I'm less likely to mash on than combos that I learned back in The Day. I mash the CRAP out of 5BB > 5CC >236B>214B>22B. It's probably more like 5BBBB,5CCCCC>236BB>214B214BB214B>2BB2B2BB2BBB :P
TeeJay Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 Yeah, online I've been like 6A 5CC 6BBBB (because sometimes it seems not to come out and I get sad). 6CC is also becoming a habit in combos when it's not delayed due to net fear. I may spend a week offline. I kind've wanna learn Azrael or Haku perhaps to kill myself of that (a reason why SF gives me problems). Ragna (I've mashed the heck out of Inferno Divider). I don't think I do it much with ABA or Robo-Ky. That mess comes in handy with Robo-Ky's super S x 1000. Most people I see slam hard on their sticks, and I'm an active composer and piano player (so my digits have to be taken care of, plus we don't hit regularly that hard). I'm also having some neurological problems with my hands which are painful, but I'm too stubborn to not play a bit.
chzchan Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I also do this but only with the good ol BBCC bnb and any air special. When I am doing one of those combos where I know the hitsun decay is at is peak and I am trying to end with j.236A > j.214A I am probably doing 100 inputs/second at that point.
chzchan Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Is using 421D > 236D as an oki against certain characters an acceptable use of charge? I have been running into a ton of Litchis recently and after I finish with either a regular old knockdown or get in a command grab I have been getting some nice CH ground auras because I am able to dodge their DP with the 28 frames of projectile invuln. If they choose to block instead of DP, I am at +6 and can continue pressure safely. Ground aura catches rolls in both directions and picks people up off the ground so I always feel like I am at an advantage even though it burns through charge. Pretty sure it also takes care of delayed techs. See, I would use an average of two blade supers on knockdown per round regardless of the character I am fighting (unless it is one who has some means to turn it against me like Azrael or Hakumen), so I just wanted to try something different. It is probably incredibly inefficient, but has been fairly effective. I have actually gone straight into Mugen after a knockdown just to do a bunch of ground aura blockstrings repeatedly. It could have just been the people I had been fighting, but just going into Mugen scares the shit out of them and suddenly makes them not mash or buffer DP at every chance they got. I thought it was really funny so I have been using it occasionally. My favorite thing that I have done recently is go into Mugen with 4+ charges and go back and forth and back and forth until my opponent finally breaks. General plan is to try and go for a command grab as the bar reaches empty and not use any charge cancel pressure until then either. Man, I wish that doing any of Tsubaki's D normals in Mugen actually did something. Would have been cool if they made charge cancelled moves plus on block like in OD since no charge is being stored by holding D anyway.
Airk Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 It's legit if it works. I think it's actually a pretty good gimmick against Litchi and her projectile DP, but I can't think of any other characters I'd try it on.
zaeris Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 I was going to say do more 214d 236 d into command grab lol you can get back your two stock. Too bad i don't know a good combo for it. Edit was thinking that you can use 236d to punish roll mid screen from 22b full charge, then again the only character that would roll backwards are zoning character.
chzchan Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 I was going to say do more 214d 236 d into command grab lol you can get back your two stock. Too bad i don't know a good combo for it. Edit was thinking that you can use 236d to punish roll mid screen from 22b full charge, then again the only character that would roll backwards are zoning character. It works to punish backwards rolling midscreen so long as you don't go for a ground ender and it works really really well so long as you time it correctly if they decide to delay tech. After j.214X knockdown ender, 3CC, or command grab are the best times. If you are close enough to the corner but still midscreen, it can catch backwards rolls as well if you did a ground ender. Also, here is some more unconventional stuff that I have been trying out. Do any of you ever decide to end jump in combos with j.236A/D? I had not until recently because I usually autopilot Airdash > (j.B) > j.CC > 5A > etc. because it works as both a combo and a tight blockstring. Turns out you can sort of use air to ground confirms like this to net yourself some charge while keeping people in place or actually go for a stagger recovery oki if you use the D version. The path I have been taking the most often actually happens because people fall for j.CC(delay) all too often. The thing is in order to land the 236A/D you have to be pretty close to the ground and what delaying the j.CC does is let gravity act on you a bit more before landing the hit. What you do after landing the j.236A is simply charge until you hit the ground. This usually gives around 2 and 1/4 charge and the projectile created by j.236A will keep the opponent at bay while they recover unless they have an AA with a really long diagonal hitbox like Jin or Izayoi. Unfortunately this will only work on standing opponents due to spacing constraints, but there are other versions like j.B > j.C > j.236A or j.B(w) > j.BB > j.236A that hit most crouching opponents. If you decide to use j.236D on them you will not be able to cancel into j.D, so you forgo charge in order to get some pretty great midscreen oki. What you do is after landing the j.236D wait for the projectile to come out and then immediately go into j.214A to land as quickly as possible. Using j.214A is necessary because it is the only of the three followups that whiff at the range you will be at. See, j.236D has 50 frames of staggered hitstun on grounded opponents so the projectile will be right in their face as they recover if they choose to. I think you may be able to backdash out of it but the timing is really really tight. After landing with j.214A(w), you should have enough time to dash up to your opponent and go crazy. I have usually opted for command grabs to get double back on my investment because I am pretty sure you can't jump out of the stagger recovery in time so if I time the command grab correctly it will always hit without being blue. I haven't really tried experimenting with ending other longer combos with j.236A except for the corner oki, though, so I still have some things to mess around with.
zaeris Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 well it used to be awesome when tsuabki had j236a/b/c giving you cross over option now shes plain and easy to read. I still cry thinking when about her lost option. beside it being a decent mix up you sorta forgo damage potential because you covert any hit into a carry or damage combo.
chzchan Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Yeah I do miss the three different directions and the three different colors of everything. It was pretty neat. A was up. C was the cross up. B was down. Having those options would have at least fixed some unreliability with following up her DP if you hit your opponent with the very very edge of its horizontal hit box. You would have used the C version to push you forward instead of how the the only version we have now moves you upward and actually sort of backward as well.
Kiba Posted July 4, 2014 Posted July 4, 2014 So yeah for those of you going EVO I hope you've been doing your research! In case you didnt know the following Japanese players will be attending EVO: -N-O (Rachel) -Dogura / Kinkuli / Tochigin (Azrael) -Kogatan (Ragna) -Galileo (Litchi) -Tiku (Tager) -Spinking (Amane) -Matoi / Kinji / Tsujikawa / Jiyuna (Kokonoe) -Yoshiki (Nu-13) -Dora (Bang) I advise you guys to take a look at the video threads and analyse how the players play should you run into them (use ctrl + F!!). If there is no footage of them in 1.1, you'll have to look in the 1.0 video thread, and even though it'll be old, it's the only thing you can rely on I'm afraid. Anyway have fun, I'll see whoever is going there too.
Daedron Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 Will you be repping Tsubaki or Valk, Kiba? He's mainly playing Valk, but has a select few matchups where he'll play Tsubaki. He won't say which ones though, so we need a lot of luck to see any Tsubaki being played at EVO.
Kiba Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 Good luck Kiba if you're going. I am thanks! Will you be repping Tsubaki or Valk, Kiba? Edit: What Daedron said I guess.
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