AC: Ky Kiske Discussion

[Sytha]

I tried 6P when I first got the game. I was Counter thrown/2Ked a lot. I used 2S,2P,2K instead. Those seemed to work better. But 6P is nice if it Counter Hits thats a free combo for great damage.

[Mr. Mamation]

This is a little more dangerous than something as fast as 5K, but I've been doing:

2P/2K, recover, 6P 5S

On CH, you can get stuff like:

6P 5S 2H, j.S j.H, VT, LJ, land, 2P 5S 2H, VT, LJ

Seems like 6P 6H is really common as well judging by match vids.

agreed, 2P is what i use most of the time.

[722]

agreed, 2P is what i use most of the time.

Did you mean to agree with me, or with Chojin? Look at the post you quoted...

Anyway, I do happen to think 5K is the best option now; I don't get low poked out of 6P, but I think going to the close S in the combo is kind of a compromise if they FDed and there are people who will stand up when they expect a throw -- 6P doesn't punish that at all.

Sytha: It should be difficult to counterthrow out of 6P if you're using it as a throw bait, unless you aren't pushing them outside of their throw range and then mixing up between sit back and attack or walk forward and throw. I'm surprised you didn't experience some of the same difficulties with 2S.

[JetEnduro]

You guys do remember that 5K can be cancelled late right? :x 2P>5K>pause>S/HS/6P(CH if it lands)> whatever. While frame data shows a terrible disadvantage, it really is not... but that's just me i guess D:

[zand]

Sometimes I use c.S when I play ky personally, with the command (the 66 is primed off a 2p) 66[s+H] after a 2p/2k so it option selects a throw at the same time it does the slash. If they are not throwable at the time (within 5/6 frames of hit/blockstun) then you get a slash which is not only fast but leads to tiny combos, and late cancels successfully to 6H on counter hit iirc, but if they are throwable, then you get the throw~

Also I haven't tested this personally in AC, but MAYBE the option selected 6[s + H] will throw break for you if you're grabbed?

[Chojin]

Sometimes I use c.S when I play ky personally, with the command (the 66 is primed off a 2p) 66[s+H] after a 2p/2k so it option selects a throw at the same time it does the slash. If they are not throwable at the time (within 5/6 frames of hit/blockstun) then you get a slash which is not only fast but leads to tiny combos, and late cancels successfully to 6H on counter hit iirc, but if they are throwable, then you get the throw~

That wouldn't work. You would have to do 2P, 6646[s+H], since the dash would prevent you from throwing. It would work better to do a close 2P, wait, 6[s+H].

[zand]

That wouldn't work. You would have to do 2P, 6646[s+H], since the dash would prevent you from throwing. It would work better to do a close 2P, wait, 6[s+H].

You're right and I'm probably not priming the dash properly since it's such a small window to get a good tick throw in that I'm just throwing before I've dashed. I also tend to go 6656[s+H], or try to.

[PozerWolf]

You guys do remember that 5K can be cancelled late right? :x

2P>5K>pause>S/HS/6P(CH if it lands)> whatever.

While frame data shows a terrible disadvantage, it really is not... but that's just me i guess D:

Oh... never saw that a cancel.

I just thought 5K had less recovery, or something ;p

If they are not throwable at the time (within 5/6 frames of hit/blockstun) then you get a slash which is not only fast but leads to tiny combos, and late cancels successfully to 6H on counter hit iirc, but if they are throwable, then you get the throw~

Actually, if you have 25% tension and you land a slash at close range (assuming thats where going to be, seeing as how your attempting a throw and all), you can actually do about 170+ damage into knockdown with the big Orb force break.

[lars]

random after a knockdown ex air d land run a bit 214k to pass behind even ex air d protect u even if the cross up didn't work if it tuch ex air d connects so go to an air combo after a2d link a 2147d i mean 2d and immediatly 2147d then dust when opponenet wakes up if u miss the ex d protect u long enough (i guess) 2d hit tuch after the dust timing seems hard though EDIT can seem evident but........ now it's possible to attack from anywhere with air stun edge hs frc to airdash like after a burst or anything that send opponent far from u to finish a match do not forget u can lightening strike after a burst or a dead angle...pretty weak damage but in the case of.........

[Saske_dattebayo]

Hello, I'm new to Guilty Gear and purchased AC last week. I've played for a while and have decided that Ky is the character for me, as for now. Could anyone just tell me the basic idea behind this character? Really basic, like, should I jump around a lot and use lots of lightning-bolts (or whatever it is he's shooting out), should I keep a distance between me and the enemy, should I try to go near and slash like hell? Use dust, try to go near and use combo, run and HS, be "aerial" jump alot and shoot from air, and so on and so on... What would be the absolute "basic" playing-style for Ky? tell the n00b (me).

[Metal Sonic]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772

[purify]

Most people are noobs here, only a few of them admit it. Just don't be a scrub and it's cool. That thread tells you what everything does, but you're probably still wondering what exactly you should be trying to do. If you can't tell from Japanese matches what's going on, here's the basic idea: knock people down. As they're getting up, make sure you have something out to hit them that won't get you hit. If they block it, you should have something in mind to do to land the next hit. The big, slow fireball is only to be done in this instance, and it's good for this purpose. They stand up, they block three hits, you're able to do run up and force them into blocking more. If you're playing with friends, then I imagine they'll get hit with lows over and over for a while, but eventually you'll need to start using throws, frametraps, (properly using) overheads. Don't do random things. If the person you're fighting is flailing around, doing Riot Stamp or Lust Shaker over and over, just do whatever punishes that move until they stop. This is how people get better at fighting games. If they complain that you beat everything they do, then be patient with them a while. This is the scrub mentality. I wouldn't say anything Ky does could be considered cheap (though I'm often told otherwise...by seasoned old school street fighter players no less ghdksag;lkdsafjlsd). Okay, also, leave supers alone. It'll be a while before you can recognize the specific situations for using them. They're just not that great compared to most games and not spammable at all, thus forming bad habits. If you can't FRC, just use your tension for simple Stun Dipper RC combos (roman cancel the second hit of the command sweep move, juggle with 5K or c.S, the timing isn't strict at all) and use Dead Angles. When you eventually get enough practice in to use FRCs, you'll discover a whole new game. So yeah, most things you can just learn from experience. If you have any good players in your area (I think there are ranking battles and stuff in Sweden), play those guys as often as possible and you'll pick up things quicker than if somebody tells you on a forum or if you watch vids. There are some things that can really help you that I have no idea if you know/no one can possibly have the time to post them all, like "oh, I can just FD x hit in x character's block string and regain the advantage" etc. And uhhhh don't rely on greed sever or stun dipper, they're both unsafe and again, bad habits.

[Metal Sonic]

Greed Saber/Sever/Whatever can be very good against a IAD at some distance, but try with all your might not abuse that... Stun Dipper in AC is crap, only use in combos or punish some obvious attack. Not rely too much in his VT (shoryu) because is not so safe against some options, and have a CRAPPY lag. Against a IAD is Ok, but IMO is better try to launch a 6P or 2HS. After all, know how to be agressive without lose your focus.

[Saske_dattebayo]

So yeah, most things you can just learn from experience. If you have any good players in your area (I think there are ranking battles and stuff in Sweden), play those guys as often as possible and you'll pick up things quicker than if somebody tells you on a forum or if you watch vids

Errr, the only experience I'll be getting is by playing Arcade Mode all by myself But ofc, I didn't just buy this game for playing with myself all the time, but it will take until September till I can play with people who's ever seen the game. At a anime-convention. I dunno if there are any local players at all, I live in the empty and "forest-y" part of Sweden. I'll have to try and look up if matches are played anywhere near and until september I'll just have to watch vids and read FAQ's, and ofc ask like this in forums

[Metal Sonic]

I dunno if there are any local players at all, I live in the empty and "forest-y" part of Sweden

At least you don't have to dodge some cross-fires to play the game against a human player like me...

[purify]

Not rely too much in his VT (shoryu) because is not so safe against some options, and have a CRAPPY lag.

You know, I wish I could fight against these people you guys fight against that appraently just randomly IAD at you. Don't get the chance to anti air people very often unless I'm at a con or with non-GG players or something.

I don't like the word "lag" to describe recovery, because...well, it's just recovery. "laggy moves" sounds so...I dunno. shrug.

Regarding Vapor Thrust, it's an uppercut (a special with invicibility at startup...unless you're Bridget), but certainly not the best one. Many, many low normals can completely avoid it even if you're as close to their sprite as possible. Eventually, the people you fight will know you have an uppercut and that you can do it. At that point, the move is still an option, certainly, but again, nothing to rely on. Though you don't want to, sometimes the best option is actually to just block.

Learning to block is very important. Some people never get good at it.

edit: oh...so you're kinda secluded. Well, you can pick up the basics on an online version of the game, like that Reload stuff that's big nowadays. There's likely -somebody- around there, have you tried looking around the Match Finder?

[Saske_dattebayo]

edit: oh...so you're kinda secluded. Well, you can pick up the basics on an online version of the game, like that Reload stuff that's big nowadays. There's likely -somebody- around there, have you tried looking around the Match Finder?

What, Online-version..? What, Match Finder..?

[Metal Sonic]

You know, I wish I could fight against these people you guys fight against that appraently just randomly IAD at you. Don't get the chance to anti air people very often unless I'm at a con or with non-GG players or something.

Bah, not all of they do that... Some do, others...

I don't like the word "lag" to describe recovery, because...well, it's just recovery. "laggy moves" sounds so...I dunno. shrug.

You get the ideia... =P

Regarding Vapor Thrust, it's an uppercut (a special with invicibility at startup...unless you're Bridget), but certainly not the best one. Many, many low normals can completely avoid it even if you're as close to their sprite as possible. Eventually, the people you fight will know you have an uppercut and that you can do it. At that point, the move is still an option, certainly, but again, nothing to rely on. Though you don't want to, sometimes the best option is actually to just block.

Sure. I just forget that Ky have a shoryu when i fall into the ground... Except when i see a perfect situation to use, i usually just block.

[722]

You know, I wish I could fight against these people you guys fight against that appraently just randomly IAD at you.

It's pretty awesome :3

[Linuka]

Purify, I know exactly what you mean. In high school I think I was the only person who had ever even heard of Guilty Gear/King of Fighters. And when it came to street fighter, maybe like 2 other people casually played it? So it kinda sucked. In college though, I actually got to meet other people that played fightin' games like me, and my skill level jumped like 300%. I even arranged a roommate just because he was very good at fighting games (namely GG and SF3) just so I could get better, because you're right, the only way to really get better is to play against other good people. Rivals help, dattebayo.

[Darkhonor90]

I found out that certain characters for example faust if you plant a EX Dust over him and grab him EVEN if he breaks the grab the EX Dust still hits him So setups such as IAD> J.S> EX Dust> Land Grab Are almost completely safe. If you grab its a free combo If he breaks the grab your still safe and he gets hurt a bit from the EX Dust I gotta test it out on more characters but I think that happens to Jam too:yaaay:

[Sytha]

I found out that certain characters for example faust if you plant a EX Dust over him and grab him EVEN if he breaks the grab the EX Dust still hits him

So setups such as

IAD> J.S> EX Dust> Land Grab

Are almost completely safe.

If you grab its a free combo

If he breaks the grab your still safe and he gets hurt a bit from the EX Dust

I gotta test it out on more characters but I think that happens to Jam too:yaaay:

Yea it's a good set up. A lot of the time you can also Dash>2P them into Combo as well. It's a good set up. I think do it after an Airblockstring tho. Is where I typically do that sort of thing.

[SSMugen]

stupid question...>_< but is it possible to do Ky's Vapor Thrust loop with Pad (Ps2 Controller)

[Harem]

Yes.

[SSMugen]

Thanks. I was able to do it using an Frc but a friend I have uses stick and can do it without Frc (maybe he just practiced the timing alot for it)