[CP] News & Gameplay Discussion (Old)

[Appledash-]

fundamental character design does have a lot to do with it, that's why S tier always looks familiar. But damage and other stuff that do actually tweak are large factors...

So that's why a character like Ragna moves up and down more than say, Jin? Giving him large damage in one iteration might boost his placement, but his character isn't so fundamentally powerful that he just has a reserved spot in top?

Of course, they also changed stuff like his gatlings, but his playstyle is the same.

Insanely high meter gain for doing what he always does:

-Cut projectile? Gain meter.

-Use Drive on projectile? Gain meter. Hell, CATCH anything with your Drive (even if the opponent blocks it) and get free meter.

-Use Overdrive? Easily gain 3~4 Magatama. Said Overdrive can do this at the start of the round before the "less health = more OD time" even kicks in.

Haku has always been strong, but it seems like all the changes in CP helped him more than others... Some of his overdrive combos are a death sentence and guard crush costs no more for him than many of his other specials.

When you say all of that together at once, it sounds as if Hakumen belongs in a Tier of his own, or an entirely different game. XD

He does have a couple bad matchups, but haku can be pretty darn ridiculous

Edited September 13, 2013 by Appledash-

[Volt]

It's possible for the top 6 to move down some if the three new characters are bad matchups for them. Odds of that is pretty slim.

Actually not that much. If i recall correctly, Valk doesn't have many meterless defensive options and I'm pretty sure Tao probably doesn't either. So if Terumi actually steals meter even on block we might see at least a third of the S tier dropping a little.

[TekkamanArk]

Added to that, it's entirely possible that Terumi, Kagura, or Kokonoe might have some tools that place them up to S themselves.

[Luminos564]

Also infinite Magatama if low health>OD>MUGEN

Oh that's just when you want to have a swag victory since OD+Mugen is not necessary (but damn fun to watch) for him to Feng Shui your health bar into oblivion. Basically:

-OD combo: I took my time and activated OD at an opportune moment to clench the victory.

-OD+Mugen: Honey, I'm SO going to wreck your ass and wear it like a hat for the next 20+ seconds *EVIL GRIN (had he a face to grin with, which he does not).

When you say all of that together at once, it sounds as if Hakumen belongs in a Tier of his own, or an entirely different game. XD

Haha, I guess. Someone once mentioned to me that they believed ASW designed the Overdrive system soley around Haku-men and then tried to apply it to the other characters.

But despite all the insane meter gain, Haku-men still has his share of bad match-ups (I hear Valkenhayn is his resident antithesis). It's more like ASW simply enabled him to go wild without actually making him the answer to everything.

Haku has always been strong, but it seems like all the changes in CP helped him more than others... Some of his overdrive combos are a death sentence and guard crush costs no more for him than many of his other specials.

He does have a couple bad matchups, but haku can be pretty darn ridiculous

Basically this, yeah. He's hits like a truck. Gains meter so much that his specials costing him anything is almost a moot point. But he still has problems (like how a bad Drive read could cost you a nice 4K loss of health).

[FatalCounter]

Personally, I don't think Hakumen is higher than Relius in BBCP. Now people discovered how to maximize Relius damage and his zoning and rushing games get way better. I don't know about you but I agree with top 5 w/o Hakumen. Why? he is still very good but he has a lot of unsafe moves (like 3C or 6B, even 2B is no longer safe) now and his drives don't catch instantly anymore.

BTW, you forgot about Rachel, I think she got a bit better in this version even if her damage have been strongly reduced.

Edited September 13, 2013 by FatalCounter

[Myoro]

Actually not that much. If i recall correctly, Valk doesn't have many meterless defensive options and I'm pretty sure Tao probably doesn't either. So if Terumi actually steals meter even on block we might see at least a third of the S tier dropping a little.

I've been told though that Valk and Tao are more reliant on their evasiveness, momentum, and mobility than they ever were for meter in regard for their defense... It stands to reason that out of all the characters that need meter for defensive options, that they would still be the best fit for the fight.

[Dreiko]

I've been told though that Valk and Tao are more reliant on their evasiveness, momentum, and mobility than they ever were for meter in regard for their defense... It stands to reason that out of all the characters that need meter for defensive options, that they would still be the best fit for the fight.

Mobility is less defense and more just..well...spacing and neutral and stuff. They excell at avoiding having to defend but if they fail and DO end up on the defensive, they have trouble. Basically Tao has some super low hitboxes and a decent antiair, that's it. Valk has a great but wolf form only antiair and a terrible guard point normal. That's it for them. If they get cornered and have to block a lot they have very few options outside of just blocking perfectly and making enough space for them to excape.

Momentum isn't really something related to defense, momentum just means their offense is good. Basically, they tend to win by not ever giving you a chance of putting them on the defensive through constant relentless offense. If they manage to pull that sort of approach off their terrible defense won't seem so terrible because they won't have to ever defend at all.

[Volt]

How about Nu? Is she leaning more to her old CT glory days or is she so bad that she's still 2 generations back?

[BlackYakuzu94]

How about Nu? Is she leaning more to her old CT glory days or is she so bad that she's still 2 generations back?

I think her mode shift allows her to transition between her CT playstyle and Lambda's from CS.

[Dawn of Musou]

From what I've seen, CP Nu is pretty scary lol. Her Crush Trigger is godlike.

[ElegantShadow]

How about Nu? Is she leaning more to her old CT glory days or is she so bad that she's still 2 generations back?

Well, Nu seems all around better than Lambda in terms of offense: In Dia Forma, Nu has much stronger Zoning and Lock-Down than Lambda ever had, and in Luna Forma, her damage out put seems to surpass Lambda to some extent (And then there's her OD, though, you could say that every character is technically better than their previous counterparts because of that.)

However, in terms of defense, this would be the worst she's ever been from what I've heard: Her only reversal is now limited to Luna Forma (Unless she's in OD) and Gold Burst is gone meaning that she has to rely on the game Mechanics to get out of pressure.

All in all, she's a mixed bag, she's become even better at what she excels at, but at the cost of becoming worse at what she already had problems with.

Edited September 13, 2013 by ElegantShadow

[Myoro]

Mobility is less defense and more just..well...spacing and neutral and stuff. They excell at avoiding having to defend but if they fail and DO end up on the defensive, they have trouble. Basically Tao has some super low hitboxes and a decent antiair, that's it. Valk has a great but wolf form only antiair and a terrible guard point normal. That's it for them. If they get cornered and have to block a lot they have very few options outside of just blocking perfectly and making enough space for them to excape.

Momentum isn't really something related to defense, momentum just means their offense is good. Basically, they tend to win by not ever giving you a chance of putting them on the defensive through constant relentless offense. If they manage to pull that sort of approach off their terrible defense won't seem so terrible because they won't have to ever defend at all.

Right so what I'm saying is that they are already like that. Having to never be caught, and never letting the opponent get a chance to attack. By being this way they are all ready predisposed to creating situations where they will not have to get hit or guard hits. With terrible defensive options Tao and Valk are arguably just as dead if they were blocking an opponent not intent on stealing their meter. Other characters without meterless defense generally can't make up for that flaw by always pressing their offense or relying on their maneuverability. So I still believe Tao and Valk aren't going to be completely sunk by meter drain.

[Errol]

Mobility is less defense and more just..well...spacing and neutral and stuff. They excell at avoiding having to defend but if they fail and DO end up on the defensive, they have trouble. Basically Tao has some super low hitboxes and a decent antiair, that's it. Valk has a great but wolf form only antiair and a terrible guard point normal. That's it for them. If they get cornered and have to block a lot they have very few options outside of just blocking perfectly and making enough space for them to excape.

No, that isn't at all all that they have. They both have some of the best backdashes in the game, and taokaka in particular has one of the best mash out pokes in 2a, has crawl, and has a 1f invulnerable to lows move to go with her crawl and low hitboxes. Both of them also have reversal DDs that go very far. Valk has frame 1 head invuln on his transform to wolf.

[HoudiniJr100]

I still am wondering if bangs new tech could get him climbing the tier ladder.

[ElegantShadow]

I still am wondering if bangs new tech could get him climbing the tier ladder.

I'm not too sure about Bang in all honesty, I mean, he certainly DOES have some new tricks up his sleeve (Air-Glide, Meterless Umbrella-Kunai Rain, Etc), but it seems that either, 1: They haven't been fully utilized and therefore have untapped potential, or 2: They're somewhat useless/situational.

Honestly, I'd say that Bang has a fairly even chance of staying right where he is on the Ladder, or of going up a few Ranks. Only time will tell, I suppose. :I

[BlackYakuzu94]

I haven't really seen anything explosive from Bang either; I guess his new DD grab is pretty good, but nothing huge.

[Volt]

Well, Nu seems all around better than Lambda in terms of offense: In Dia Forma, Nu has much stronger Zoning and Lock-Down than Lambda ever had, and in Luna Forma, her damage out put seems to surpass Lambda to some extent (And then there's her OD, though, you could say that every character is technically better than their previous counterparts because of that.)

However, in terms of defense, this would be the worst she's ever been from what I've heard: Her only reversal is now limited to Luna Forma (Unless she's in OD) and Gold Burst is gone meaning that she has to rely on the game Mechanics to get out of pressure.

All in all, she's a mixed bag, she's become even better at what she excels at, but at the cost of becoming worse at what she already had problems with.

Good, so she's a little more balanced, i guess. She'll probably end at least close if not on the S tier then. Thanks for the info.

[AMB Bakery]

Lol @ people not realizing why Hakumen is super S tier. Normally, I'd say damage has literally nothing to do with tier placement, especially in anime games where characters tend to get high consistent damage somehow. However, OD Hakumen does enough damage to make AC Slayer piss himself. At least AC Slayer had to actually wait/work for his meter, and even then he either had to link/cancel DoT off something or use it as a punish vs some counter-able move. Hakumen can airthrow you, activate OD, and then you actually just die. Hakumen is a strong character with all he's got (atemi, specials into specials, some of the best normals in the game, AGITO, etc.), but what really seals the deal is he does too much damage.

[LeDom]

Lol @ people not realizing why Hakumen is super S tier. Normally, I'd say damage has literally nothing to do with tier placement, especially in anime games where characters tend to get high consistent damage somehow. However, OD Hakumen does enough damage to make AC Slayer piss himself. At least AC Slayer had to actually wait/work for his meter, and even then he either had to link/cancel DoT off something or use it as a punish vs some counter-able move. Hakumen can airthrow you, activate OD, and then you actually just die. Hakumen is a strong character with all he's got (atemi, specials into specials, some of the best normals in the game, AGITO, etc.), but what really seals the deal is he does too much damage.

This and his range is crazy. If the player has a strong defensive game, it can be hard for some characters to approach him.

[Luminos564]

Hakumen is a strong character with all he's got (atemi, specials into specials, some of the best normals in the game, AGITO, etc.), but what really seals the deal is he does too much damage.

He's always had great damage output though. It's just that, until CP and all this OD business, he had limits and had to keep a close eye on how he spent his meter. CP however broke his reins and so now he deals out Touch of Deaths like he's handing out business cards. He's like the Alteisen Riese of Blazblue: instead of focusing on his weaknesses, ASW took what he does best and cranked it to Gene Simmons levels.

[NecroTheReaper]

Haks use to need either a perfect starter and full meter to do 8-10k damage... now he just hits OD and wins. Maybe a bit dramatic, but I'm not lookin forward to fighting Hakumen xD

[BlackYakuzu94]

There's an easy solution to Hakumen: Kill him before he kills you. You either force his ass to burst, or make sure you kill him before he goes below 30%.

If you let him touch you when he has a burst icon.....then that's on you. :P

[TekkamanArk]

He's always had great damage output though. It's just that, until CP and all this OD business, he had limits and had to keep a close eye on how he spent his meter. CP however broke his reins and so now he deals out Touch of Deaths like he's handing out business cards. He's like the Alteisen Riese of Blazblue: instead of focusing on his weaknesses, ASW took what he does best and cranked it to Gene Simmons levels.

Revolver Stake = 4C, but i'm not sure what Claymore, Trump Card, or Rampage Ghost would be.

[mAc Chaos]

Hakumen is strong but its not an S tier that just dominates everyone Arakune style. Because his design is basic he will always have a tough match against characters like Lambda and Hazama and Tao and Valk and so on. Damage is not what holds him back against characters that are highly mobile.

So it's more like he is better against characters he was always good at fighting. Although I wonder what the Tager matchup will look like with the Tager buffs and his nerfs.

[BlackYakuzu94]

From what I've seen, somewhat easier. We actually have an air approach tool with Agito now, which I think is faster than AC.....lemme check.

EDIT: Eeeyup, five frames faster.