BlackYakuzu94 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 6D has a 17f startup now as opposed to Extend's 1f, so the only ones he has left are 2D(Which only catches lows) and Yukikaze. 5D can be held but I think it loses some active frames on the attack portion after the catch, which is why it can be blocked.
Luminos564 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 5D can be held but I think it loses some active frames on the attack portion after the catch, which is why it can be blocked. If held long enough and it catches something anyway, he can perform a cost-free 623A~A so that's a bit of a plus for him. We'll finally have Kagura footage? I've been waiting for so long. Yeah same. I've been dying to see him in the hands of players for a while now. That trailer could only tide me over for so long. If Kokonoe is that far along then it's a safe bet she will indeed be on-disc DLC. Arc System Works, I am disappoint. Why do you figure that? Considering the current date, it is possible that the game is finished and is currently going through the shipping process. I kind of doubt they added Kokonoe at the last known minute onto the disc. Well, his counters got weakened, so it might give Carl a break. His 6D is not active for a while so the onlynway he can frame 1 counter them is with Yukikaze. In a way yes. However, Carl would only have so long to land that combo in. We've already established that Haku-men gains meter like he's running on Red Bull, Starbucks coffee and Pixie Sticks. One of the things that grants him meter? Blocking (specifically Instant Blocking). So unless Carl gets that hit in prior to Haku-men hitting 4 Magatama, he's always going to need to tread carefully.
Dark Ranger88 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 2D(Which only catches lows) Don't the counters work based on the attibute of the opponent's move (Head, Body, Foot, Projectile) and not whether it can be guarded high or low? If 2D now only catches lows would it work on moves like Ragna's 5B which is Head and Body attribute, but can also be guarded low?
Appledash- Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 https://twitter.com/zatuyoP/status/378397199475830784 Kagura will also playable at TGS. I thought it would be pretty funny if we got Kokonoe footage before we got Kagura footage but luckily it seems that won't be the case. I liked his preview, now I just kinda want to see what his normals look like with that huge sword.
Yukikaze Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Don't the counters work based on the attibute of the opponent's move (Head, Body, Foot, Projectile) and not whether it can be guarded high or low? If 2D now only catches lows would it work on moves like Ragna's 5B which is Head and Body attribute, but can also be guarded low? It did in CT and CS 5D/6D loses against lows and throws 2D loses against overhead and throws
stickystaines Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 You know all that business about CP having less hitstop and all that? Was there ever a comparison done of the same combo between EX and CP to get a visual idea of the difference?
mAc Chaos Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Don't the counters work based on the attibute of the opponent's move (Head, Body, Foot, Projectile) and not whether it can be guarded high or low? If 2D now only catches lows would it work on moves like Ragna's 5B which is Head and Body attribute, but can also be guarded low? 2D does not care about attribute, just if it is blocked high or low. Oh and I meant you can't frame 1 counter overheads anymore without yukikaze. Blocking counters means that if Haku counters a projectile or doll, etc, you can avoid being grabbed even if you're in grab range.
Yukikaze Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 So a 'catched' normal is still guaranteed then
TheGreatReptar Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Attack startup is 6 frames after the catch, and the opponent will most likely be stuck in hitstop. I'm sure there's some way to get a normal countered and still block, but in almost every case, yea, it's guaranteed. Edit: Actually, thinking about it, RCing might work. Then again, hitstop.
psycofang2 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 So a 'catched' normal is still guaranteed then not completely true, some attacks because of their trajectory or whether or not they can be jump canceld i.e. tager 5Aing hakus 5D then jump barrier blocking the catch for example can combat this. another i can think off the top of my head is Azreals 3C? drop kick can make him land and block before the catch touches him.
mAc Chaos Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Counter range was also nerfed, so even if you hit the counter you might be too far to grab.
Errol Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 they let him do 80% combos off counters, seems like a more than fair tradeoff
BlackYakuzu94 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 Yea, can't do much comboing without range. Its probably why I don't see many people use the Enma followup off of 5D.
Jourdal Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Haks full OD sounds powerful but not broken big damage still seems situational. Grabs are situational? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Xh5O1Yo6I4Q#t=552 I've probably seen more CP matches than most people, and this is one of the many I've seen where an opponent is flat out outplaying Hakumen only to get grabbed and suddenly it's anyone's game. Teching grabs is obviously not that easy considering most of the top players have a below 50% throw break ratio. My beef is with Valkenhayn btw Edited September 13, 2013 by Jourdal
Luminos564 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Grabs are situational? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Xh5O1Yo6I4Q#t=552 Also like to add that the grab was actually OD cancelled, meaning the duration Haku-men's Overdrive was cut in half. And yet, in the 6 seconds that it lasted he did 9590 damage, effectively undoing all the work Goro had to do during the round to get momentum (or lead) going. Goro being, well Goro still won but if Haku-had even 1 more second of duration on that OD or did the TK Tsubaki>Hotaru>OD instead it'd have ended in Haku-men's victory. And that's a pretty damn scary thought. Edited September 13, 2013 by Luminos564
Yukikaze Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) I was speaking more about the counter starters... where did you see pro player match stats? The matchs I watched (which is alot less than you) most throws got broken. Also in your example that was a throw counter, so it was unbreakable... but 5C > Zan (1) > CT > 5C > Shippuu alone for 7K is too easy i'm assuming thats not even the most optimal combo route either. Edited September 13, 2013 by Yukikaze
TheGreatReptar Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 You can look at any player's throwbreak % by looking up their Nesica card's profile.
Errol Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 you know it's not like Hakumen really has to be low on life. he can be full on life and put out really high numbers, not to mention he's got 7k+ combos off 2as. He puts out so much damage so fast that he can basically ignore the combo time system penalties.. Which is why he can do this off throws and counters and jab starters. Some characters can put out a lot of damage, but I guess one of the biggest differences I can see is that.. He can do it off pretty much anything. You can see other characters put out high damage, but you don't see it off anything.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted September 13, 2013 Posted September 13, 2013 you know it's not like Hakumen really has to be low on life. he can be full on life and put out really high numbers, not to mention he's got 7k+ combos off 2as. He puts out so much damage so fast that he can basically ignore the combo time system penalties.. Which is why he can do this off throws and counters and jab starters. Some characters can put out a lot of damage, but I guess one of the biggest differences I can see is that.. He can do it off pretty much anything. You can see other characters put out high damage, but you don't see it off anything. Well I wouldn't say that because the likes of Ragna, Jin, and Makoto have pretty decent OD's....its just that Hakumen's outdoes them all in the damage department.
Circuitous Posted September 14, 2013 Posted September 14, 2013 If Kokonoe is that far along then it's a safe bet she will indeed be on-disc DLC. Arc System Works, I am disappoint. This was touched on before, but just to clarify: the content of the discs they'll be shipping as Chrono Phantasma was finalized months ago. The process to actually get a game on consoles is a long one. Anything they continued to work on after that point (Terumi, Kagura, Kokonoe) have to be DLC. They may end up on the disc in some form (CS had sprites for the three DLC characters, but minimal data), but for now, save your disappointment until the inspection.
TekkamanArk Posted September 14, 2013 Posted September 14, 2013 This was touched on before, but just to clarify: the content of the discs they'll be shipping as Chrono Phantasma was finalized months ago. The process to actually get a game on consoles is a long one. Anything they continued to work on after that point (Terumi, Kagura, Kokonoe) have to be DLC. They may end up on the disc in some form (CS had sprites for the three DLC characters, but minimal data), but for now, save your disappointment until the inspection. Kagura's an unlockable character for completing Story Mode, so perhaps that example doesn't serve your point since he literally is on disc.
Agni Posted September 14, 2013 Posted September 14, 2013 Kagura isn't a DLC but Circ's right, it takes MONTHS to get a game authorized for consoles. If Kokonoe and Terumi are on the disc at all it will be almost certainly impossible to actually use them even with hacking.
Luminos564 Posted September 14, 2013 Posted September 14, 2013 I forget; weren't Makoto and Valkenhayn in the same position during CS1? IIRC, before either of them was released, people were able to crack open the 360 disc and found their emblems, themes and placeholder but that was it. The actual characters were sold as "proper" (as in not on-disc) DLC.
Tokkan Posted September 14, 2013 Posted September 14, 2013 I forget; weren't Makoto and Valkenhayn in the same position during CS1? IIRC, before either of them was released, people were able to crack open the 360 disc and found their emblems, themes and placeholder but that was it. The actual characters were sold as "proper" (as in not on-disc) DLC. In CS1 console? Makoto's on-disc data was an incredibly buggy test character using Ragna sprites while Valkenhayn and Platinum were mostly blank dummy characters with stick-figure sprites. Maybe we'll have a similar deal with Kokonoe. With regards to Terumi, unless we have a day 1 patch he's most likely on-disc.
Recommended Posts