[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion (Pre-Console Release)

[zeth07]

If BHS doesnt remove weakpoints i bet my life we can make some ridiculously good damage resets post BHS.

I can confirm now that BHS doesn't remove weakpoints, like Juunee mentioned.

EDIT: Bunch of stuff posted on the jbbs. Going to be going through it, someone posted quite a few combos that I'll be adding.

Edited November 21, 2012 by zeth07

[Juunee]

If BHS doesnt remove weakpoints i bet my life we can make some ridiculously good damage resets post BHS.

This has me wondering what his best use of meter would be for. RC's are always good, but do you reckon they will take priority over BHS? (I only say this because I can imagine Azrael being a pretty safe character)

I think sitting on 50 for bionic hawk stinger isn't a bad idea at all. Rapids are always useful, but it seems to me that Azrael inherited more than just a few of Slayer's moves and dash, but his close range normals are incredibly safe as well. Scud punishment will have its uses since weak-point combos look to be like they're going to cripple people and BHS being unblockable while grounded is a scary concept. I know BHS isn't fully invincible throughout the animation, but as long as it retains it during the first frames of motion it's going to be incredibly useful for punishing zoners (though potentially redundant given his dash/growler field.) His wide array of standing overheads/unblockables/weak point combos are going to make him pretty god damn scary once he gets in.

[zeth07]

I think sitting on 50 for bionic hawk stinger isn't a bad idea at all. Rapids are always useful, but it seems to me that Azrael inherited more than just a few of Slayer's moves and dash, but his close range normals are incredibly safe as well. Scud punishment will have its uses since weak-point combos look to be like they're going to cripple people and BHS being unblockable while grounded is a scary concept. I know BHS isn't fully invincible throughout the animation, but as long as it retains it during the first frames of motion it's going to be incredibly useful for punishing zoners (though potentially redundant given his dash/growler field.) His wide array of standing overheads/unblockables/weak point combos are going to make him pretty god damn scary once he gets in.

It literally has like ZERO invincibility as it is coming out.

http://youtu.be/4rd8WVMExis?t=4m29s

and

http://youtu.be/0smDGdkh9xE?t=3m20s

It can more or less be used to punish things that have relatively slow recovery though, and of course the potential unblockable part is good. To be able to punish it AFTER startup would probably take something that has 1 frame startup/invincibility, when talking about if it is an unblockable "setup" situation.

Here Azrael did it as Hazama landed and was stand blocking with Upper weakpoint applied, and got hit by it:

http://youtu.be/0smDGdkh9xE?t=1m30s

It didn't say Counter which meant the Hazama didn't try to press a button, but at the same time he also didn't try to crouch block it....maybe he couldn't because of how fast BHS is.

But here, you can see Hazama was crouch blocking before BHS startup, and was able to stand block AFTER BHS came out:

http://youtu.be/0smDGdkh9xE?t=3m25s

So there must be at least a few frames where the opponent can do something if they aren't in blockstun at least.

As for the meter usage topic, I also agree that 50% for BHS setups will probably be worth it more so than typical RC combos. Considering how much health he has, you probably won't be RCing stuff just to make it safe unless you are absolutely going to die from it.

Edited November 22, 2012 by zeth07

[CerealKillerP]

I saw an Azrael and an Amane test some stuff about 214B on a stream. I'm not sure of this yet but I think it blocks all attacks. I can't make any guarantees because it might just be that all the attacks Amane used were projectiles but it seemed like it can block even non-projectile attacks except for lows.

I'll definitely look into Growler Field and post if I find out anything new.

[SoWL]

I think it simply turns your hitbox into a hurtbox, so many attacks just clash with it.

[Lucalibur]

Sorry if this was already answered, but while it is already known BHS has zero INV, does Scud Punishment shares that as well or can it be used as a reversal DD?

[CerealKillerP]

I think it simply turns your hitbox into a hurtbox, so many attacks just clash with it.

That might be possible because Azrael can be hit a bit after he activates Growler Field, which might be when it stops being active. It would be easier to judge if I knew what the animation for clashes looks like in CP.

It didn't look like a normal guard but that might just be because of the aura he's giving off during it.

[zeth07]

Sorry if this was already answered, but while it is already known BHS has zero INV, does Scud Punishment shares that as well or can it be used as a reversal DD?

From what I remember seeing I don't think it has any startup invincibility, or at least it can't be used as a reversal. I'll watch the videos again and find out where I saw some examples and edit them in.

Platinum gets hit by it here after she does what I guess is 2A on oki as he does wakeup SCP.

http://youtu.be/4rd8WVMExis?t=1m1s

That could be just from the fact that she was in recovery. Gonna find another example because I'm almost positive he got hit out of it in one of the videos.

Here's an example where Platinum hits him out of it with Bat after he does it on wakeup:

(1:25 into the video) http://www.twitch.tv/zeth07/b/341817527

That might be possible because Azrael can be hit a bit after he activates Growler Field, which might be when it stops being active. It would be easier to judge if I knew what the animation for clashes looks like in CP.

It didn't look like a normal guard but that might just be because of the aura he's giving off during it.

My understanding of it is that it probably has some startup invincibility and works like Mu's DP and just blows people away. If however he holds it, it probably continues to absorb projectiles, but he can then be hit out of it by any other attacks as you mentioned with the active frames. I'm almost positive I saw a Jin hit him out of it during one of the location test videos after it had already been out for a while.

Here you can see Hazama hits him out of it almost immediately after it is already used:

http://youtu.be/0smDGdkh9xE?t=22s

Here's another great example, it ends up trading with Hazama's move:

http://youtu.be/0smDGdkh9xE?t=2m55s

Also, I believe I read in the jbbs that he can store something like 14 projectiles, like in the scenario that you used Growler Field to counter Nu's distortion. But don't quote me on that. He can most definitely store more than one at a time though because I'm almost positive I saw that in one of the Platinum videos.

Edited November 22, 2012 by zeth07

[YukiBlue]

Pro's + Con's so far according to me.

+ Strong Midscreen Damage Potential

+ Potential for absurd corner carry

+ Brutal damage with Weakpoints.

+ Able to get weakpoints pretty easily.

+ BHS is Swag. (Bitches have Swag)

+ Best Astral in the entire game.

- Trouble against Keep-away?

- Haven't seen anything that is a solid reversal

- Limited AA?

[BladeOfJustice7]

Also add straight forward drive as a pro, and you forgot to mention how strong his dashes are.

[Lucalibur]

From what I remember seeing I don't think it has any startup invincibility, or at least it can't be used as a reversal. I'll watch the videos again and find out where I saw some examples and edit them in.

Platinum gets hit by it here after she does what I guess is 2A on oki as he does wakeup SCP.

http://youtu.be/4rd8WVMExis?t=1m1s

That could be just from the fact that she was in recovery. Gonna find another example because I'm almost positive he got hit out of it in one of the videos.

Here's an example where Platinum hits him out of it with Bat after he does it on wakeup:

(1:25 into the video) http://www.twitch.tv/zeth07/b/341817527

Ah, I see it now. Guess we're stucked with his normal DP for reversals then? Is it legit enough or does it have holes? I do remember it being mentioned a few posts ago that it doesn't have lows INV.

[TSHKN]

北斗神拳 lol

[MetalMaelstrom]

Does anyone know if 236D (valiant/variant crash) is an overhead? I'm pretty sure it is. Look at this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRIqbWEGY1c&feature=player_detailpage#t=436s

Notice the red exclamation point? Or is that just me confusing it for the hitsparks?

Or, there might be another possibility to look into: is it only an overhead when red mark is applied? I just kind-of noticed this, so forgive me that I haven't studied it more in-depth, but I just felt that it needed to be pointed out.

Edited November 23, 2012 by MetalMaelstrom

[zeth07]

Just want to confirm,

Azrael can do 5A>5B>Astral anywhere.

[LionHeartx]

Nice guess that means we are gonna be seeing a lot of (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[zeakikung]

Does anyone know if 236D (valiant/variant crash) is an overhead? I'm pretty sure it is. Look at this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRIqbWEGY1c&feature=player_detailpage#t=436s

Notice the red exclamation point? Or is that just me confusing it for the hitsparks?

Or, there might be another possibility to look into: is it only an overhead when red mark is applied? I just kind-of noticed this, so forgive me that I haven't studied it more in-depth, but I just felt that it needed to be pointed out.

You saw it right, thanks.

It is an overhead

[LegendaryRath]

Sorry if this has been answered at some point, but I'm pretty curious. When you reveal either a grey or yellow weak point, is there a set amount of time that it lasts or anything like that? I've seen Azrael expose weakpoints and and then get pressured by the other player without them disappearing. It would be pretty awesome if they lasted for either a long time or until you used them.

This character looks boss, so I'm a little bit excited, just to say the least. His combos, especially the ones where he repeatedly kicks the opponent, are sexy.

[MetalMaelstrom]

Yeah the weak points last for what seems like 10 seconds. Also, another bit of information to add: 3D floorbounces on counter-hit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JUoP762Ppk&feature=player_detailpage#t=306s

[zeth07]

Overdrive also seems to make it so the weakpoints do not disappear as long as it is active.

[Cheefoo]

If they have both weaknesses, could Azrael just do something like 5C>BHS on block for an unblockable? Or does BHS have enough startup that they can just hold up+bacK+barrier and get out?]

Oh, and is his divekick an overhead? I rarely see anyone using it, so I doubt it's an IOH.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Cheefoo

[zeakikung]

If they have both weaknesses, could Azrael just do something like 5C>BHS on block for an unblockable? Or does BHS have enough startup that they can just hold up+bacK+barrier and get out?]

Oh, and is his divekick an overhead? I rarely see anyone using it, so I doubt it's an IOH.

I think 5C>BHS is possible for unblockable http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxZVfB3hbEs#t=114s

[Kurushii]

(｢・ω・)｢ 私に直面!

[BladeOfJustice7]

Oh, and is his divekick an overhead? I rarely see anyone using it, so I doubt it's an IOH.

It's hard to combo off of it (for now), that's why.

I think 5C>BHS is possible for unblockable http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RxZVfB3hbEs#t=114s

Interesting. I'm so hype for the matchup it's unbelievable.

(｢・ω・)｢ 私に直面!

Wow that was fast...

[YukiBlue]

I reckon BHS unblockables are going to be sketchy in all honesty. From all of the footage I've seen so far it seems like nothing is a concrete setup yet, and any efforts to make one could just be "Gimmicks" in disguise.

But I do believe the opponent should properly fear weakpoints, and upon applying both, a simple unblockable BHS setup should be possible. And off 5C, I reckon it would give the opponent a real "O SHIT O SHIT O SHIT" Factor.

Still no idea if we can combo after it on RC?

[zeakikung]

Scud Punishment does 1200 DMG on raw

anyone know how much BHS does on raw?