[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[StarGazer]

In case Chibi Makoto's weren't good enough to display the palettes

Thanks to Kurushii and Jiyuna

You guys are some real hype-killers, you know that? It's barely been a week and we're already on that sudoku watch talk. :/

There's nothing that indicates that she's completely free to another character or anything that indicates that she can't compete in this game. I wasn't expecting anything close to top-tier status but I do like what I see so far.

sorry

[Eshi]

If that was all they improved of her in CP she would have ended up as something less then decent as she is in extend.

Supposedly easier combos

Frame traps/pressure resets in cosmic ray/thunder blow

Significantly improved pressure

Improved corner carry

Better Oki

Higher damage output

astral vision more viable now for approach,pressure, and mix up

But despite all this even she may still end up bottom, though regardless win/losses will at the very least feel more legit.

minor correction, her oki is the same (which is to say it still sucks lol).

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Palettes! I'm liking that green hair and white clothes one. Minty fresh.

I have this urge of wanting to see/do some ridiculously amazing Galaxian Impact combos right now. Game can't come out soon enough.

Regardless of how good she is or how matchups turn out, I will say that her gameplay looks much more fun... which, since I already enjoy it, is great news for me~

[Chaoschao222]

You guys are some real hype-killers, you know that? It's barely been a week and we're already on that sudoku watch talk. :/

Well I for one am very excited about Chrono Makoto and want to play her lots. Her new moves are really cool.

Then again, I didn't play Makoto before so I don't have a lot to compare to :P

[Yazumatto]

I'm all over that Makoto the Bloodedge color (just like I'm all over "Ragna Nanaya", gonna enjoy facerolling buttons in EX to keep him fresh).

Oh yeah, there's some disheartening news.

Somebody is trying to kill our favorite squirrel-girl.

And it's not ASW's game-balancing team.

[Goldchampion200]

Somebody is trying to kill our favorite squirrel-girl.

And it's not ASW's game-balancing team.

(gonna attempt spoiler for the first time)

Who? i must know this

[Yazumatto]

(gonna attempt spoiler for the first time)

Who? i must know this

Izayoi. She wants Noel and Jin dead too. Oh and Bang's ending reveals why Relius wants Makoto's soul, albeit implicitly.

[Mightfo]

minor correction, her oki is the same (which is to say it still sucks lol).

Are you sure about this? I thought i saw her do real orb oki at some point(vs tsubaki after 5d, i think?), which IIRC can always get blown up by DPs in CSE, but she completely recovered well in time in the BBCP footage.

[farranpoison]

I can confirm a lot of what people are saying. CP Makoto from what I've seen from using her so far is far easier to play than previous installments. Asteroid Vision actually is something to do during midscreen pressure rather than an unsafe gimmick, 214A-C-D is incredible for frametraps, 214A-B is fast enough to be somewhat safe, the 214B/C moves are actually viable in certain situations. The one thing I'm still sad is that her bad matchups are still crap, and so she really does feel like a worse Ragna sometimes. She may have a bit more damaging combos than Ragna now, but lack of a good poke or jump in, or even an AA (6A is only good for so long, against characters like Tao it's like Russian Roulette because of its severely short range) severely limits some parts of her neutral game now with everyone getting new shiny toys to play with. Abare is a huge part of her game now though now that j.B is good again, and I'm sad to say I suck at abare still, lol.

[excelence]

J.B good again?, u mean like previous j.b ch = Death?

[Mightfo]

i am still sad that shooting star is only standalone now. doing 214a/214ac and then hitting d when i expected their poke(or even dragonpunch), thus dodging and getting a juicy fatal counter was always so awesome. Cosmic ray doesnt have any invincibility, right?

[farranpoison]

J.B good again?, u mean like previous j.b ch = Death?

Sorry, I meant easier to combo with.

[milesw]

Is shooting star safe?

[farranpoison]

Is shooting star safe?

Dunno if it's been already answered somewhere, but from what I've seen it's relatively safe, though I can't tell if its because it wasn't IB'd or the skill of my opponents. 214A-C-D(3) is a great tech trap though. Almost everyone I play falls for it.

[Eshi]

Sorry, I meant easier to combo with.

but, I know I've seen it connect a couple of times and the player couldn't tech before hitting the ground. It might be the increased gravity but either way I'm glad CH jB is trollworthy again :3

From twitter: @jiyunaJP If Makoto blocks Ragna GH, she can mash 2B after the first hit and it will beat both of Ragna's options. #BBCP

has this worked before?

Edited November 28, 2012 by Eshi

[StarGazer]

i am still sad that shooting star is only standalone now. doing 214a/214ac and then hitting d when i expected their poke(or even dragonpunch), thus dodging and getting a juicy fatal counter was always so awesome. Cosmic ray doesnt have any invincibility, right?

Its still usable after 214A or 214AC with 236D input, though i could be wrong.

but, I know I've seen it connect a couple of times and the player couldn't tech before hitting the ground. It might be the increased gravity but either way I'm glad CH jB is trollworthy again :3

From twitter: @jiyunaJP If Makoto blocks Ragna GH, she can mash 2B after the first hit and it will beat both of Ragna's options. #BBCP

has this worked before?

But we cant do 2D > 2C > 214ACB > 5C 6C stuff like in Extend no? I guess its removed to make combos "faster". But now we have 6C > 214AC236D which sticks ppl on wall from 1/2 screen.

As for Ragna i think he means GH Follow up or not follow up game, DP could beat both, and if our 2B could low profile the follow up then nearly all the cast could do it.

Does anyone know if Shooting Star can still cancel into Supers? i've never seen anyone do it in CP.

[BlackKaizer]

i am still sad that shooting star is only standalone now. doing 214a/214ac and then hitting d when i expected their poke(or even dragonpunch), thus dodging and getting a juicy fatal counter was always so awesome. Cosmic ray doesnt have any invincibility, right?

I'll gladly take her shooting stars wall stick property over a gimmicky tactic like that any day. Not sure about cosmic ray but from what what I've seen it wall bounces on counter hit, and for its invincibility.......I've seen it beat platinums counter attack, and CH her though I think that may have been more because of its hit box then actual invincibility, or super armor.

Also I've never seen shooting star canceled into super either though from how many instances I've seen of players not using their supers even if it meant they would win the match then was surprisely high........

Edited November 28, 2012 by BlackKaizer

[Mightfo]

I'll gladly take her shooting stars wall stick property over a gimmicky tactic like that any day.

Gimmicky? There's nothing gimmicky about conditioning someone to want to block or jump by making them scared of hitting buttons when you approach. I'd rather have that sort of tool than yet another combo tool, although obviously it isnt as useful in certain matchups.

Its still usable after 214A or 214AC with 236D input, though i could be wrong.

Ah, I hope so.

From twitter: @jiyunaJP If Makoto blocks Ragna GH, she can mash 2B after the first hit and it will beat both of Ragna's options. #BBCP

has this worked before?

That sounds good in any case, GH followup seems safer than before, like -4. Before you could always just punish him once he landed, I think, since the followup couldnt be delayed enough to be a true rekka mixup.

[BlackKaizer]

^Its useful.....except that its easily telegraphed, and for the times they DONT fall for it your get blocked, and promptly punished....unless you've got godly reaction, but the wall stick allows makoto to convert combos from more then 1/4 the screen into corner from just a jab. Something I think we're all find to be much more useful. Also their are safer ways of punishing DPs anyhow.

On another note I found an interesting vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8MTJ4YZls&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLM60bl8B6wG8uGQXAVydmnw

This makoto player at 18:20 uses comet cannon, astral vision, and cosmic ray quite bit in alot a situations though the true highlight is the very last match against v-13, and all I can say is....wow

[StarGazer]

This Makoto reminds me of CS2 days, jumping, flying, awesomeness. Everyone must check it out.

Ah, I hope so.

Just saw it in the vid, it still there just like the old Shooting Star but with better sway back or even less - Frame adv like what Farran said but i doubt they will make it nonpunishable.

I also saw Air Corona Upper going through Hakumen's burst, I swear she was in the burst hitbox range yet she felt nothing. Air Corona Upper is Invu finally!!

I love the momentum delay that comes before Cosmic Ray active frames, so useful to to punish preemptive pokes, footsies at its finest!!

Edited November 28, 2012 by StarGazer

[Mightfo]

I love the momentum delay that comes before Cosmic Ray active frames, so useful to to punish preemptive pokes, footsies at its finest!!

You mean how it pauses her forward movement before it actually hits? Yeah, I could see that leading to some nice dodges.

^Its useful.....except that its easily telegraphed, and for the times they DONT fall for it your get blocked, and promptly punished....unless you've got godly reaction, but the wall stick allows makoto to convert combos from more then 1/4 the screen into corner from just a jab. Something I think we're all find to be much more useful. Also their are safer ways of punishing DPs anyhow.

Im not sure how it is telegraphed, they cant just watch for it or makoto will do break into pressure. 214->opponent has to decide whether to block or poke or move. D makes them scared of poking. Obviously it is risky but whatever, if you know when they're going to poke, you know, just like shit like Roses doing her anti air special based on yomi. And yeah, other things can beat DP mashing after 214ac, but D is nice since it will beat both DPs and normal pokes, unlike A/B/C which lose to DPs and blocking and blocking which "loses" to pokes. If you know they're not going to just block, it is a nice option.

That sort of comboability is nice but I really just do not generally care about comboability aside from generally having decent abare, getting setups, and generally getting good amounts of corner push, all of which she would have without that. Non-combo options excite me more.

But seeing more footage reveals that she can do the juke out of 214 series anyway so whatever~

[Wokker]

Man, I haven't posted on DL in like forever. Sup dudes~

---

The new Makoto looks pretty hype, and her remixed theme is pretty nice as well, looking forward to the OST rip.

[milesw]

Is it me or do the the new combos ive seen in the latest vids look less interesting than Extends?

Ive seen way better combos in the first 3 days compared to now. :/

I guess decreasing the combo time makes makoto seem a bit bland. But atleast we can OD on peeps now lol

outside of OD she doesnt really seem like a character to be feared. Just more of an annoyance since she has more access to open you up than before.

Edited December 1, 2012 by milesw

[StarGazer]

The Combo Rate is now 70% instead of 80% (I heard that this is the same case with all the characters, not only Makoto). We will lose now more damage with each combo filler (eg: 2A > 5B > 6A > 5B > 5CC > 5D > combo) so the faster you do your combo's most damaging moves the stronger it will be. This change will force the game into having faster combos i guess, all done in theories, don't quote me on anything. The change explains why Makoto's 5B in the corner could lead into 4600 back in the loketests, but now we see her having a hard time getting a 3800 from the same combo. Makoto max damage looks a tad bit worse in BBCP contrary to believes, but she can access this damage much more frequently now with stuff like 236D and 2D(2).

Is it me or do the the new combos ive seen in the latest vids look less interesting than Extends?

Ive seen way better combos in the first 3 days compared to now. :/

I guess decreasing the combo time makes makoto seem a bit bland. But atleast we can OD on peeps now lol

outside of OD she doesnt really seem like a character to be feared. Just more of an annoyance since she has more access to open you up than before.

It is, but tbh her combos somewhat died in Extend so it won't make a difference imo. At least we can have unfair amounts of fun with the OD in BBCP, the OD makes Makoto feels like MAKOTO!

Now all what we have to do is to cheer for Bibi and Eshi and wait for BBCP.

[MoneyD90]

I think StarGazer has the right idea with how combos work now. Plus we have seen in some of her combo videos that she can still pump out decent numbers. It's just that people don't really know her BnBs yet and they are kind of going off of old extend routs. Also, it might just be me but it looks like adding a crush trigger really increases the overall damage of a combo by a decent amount. I know I have seen it with Makoto and Litchi a few times but don't take this as 100% fact.