[CP] Iron Tager Gameplay Discussion

[Darlos9D]

oh boy time to get nerfed into the ground. I'm being hella pessimistic but I fear for our red giant at every update.

Though if we're gonna go all wishlist, we can always pray for a legit anti-air normal. Or even special. That'd certainly help with valk/tao mobility a bit. The other thing that would help would be making it so their mobility doesn't counteract magnetism so hard. Double jump would be nice but that's never happening.

[TagerTime]

oh boy time to get nerfed into the ground. I'm being hella pessimistic but I fear for our red giant at every update.

Though if we're gonna go all wishlist, we can always pray for a legit anti-air normal. Or even special. That'd certainly help with valk/tao mobility a bit. The other thing that would help would be making it so their mobility doesn't counteract magnetism so hard. Double jump would be nice but that's never happening.

What is with you guys? I dont understand your crazy fear of tager being nerfed. New game updates is always my favorite time for tager players becuase we always receive progressive overall buffs each game. The only consistnet problem is that were just never buffed enough to the point that we should be in the first place. I do agree with Darlos improvements above.

Here is my personal full wishlist ideas for next patch tager update. Hopefully some of them get implemented like they did for my last wish list.

In General:

• Make magnetism much better as, good as kokonoes gravitons
  
  
  Normals:
  
  • Make 2a a real anti air with invuln
    
  • Super armor on all C moves
    
  • 6A not weak to lows, much earilier armor startup, stronger pull (same as CP unlimited tager 6A)
    
  • Increase p2 on 2C from 82 to 89
    
    
    Drives:
    
    • Super armor on all D moves
      
    • p2s are way to low increase p2 on all D moves form 72 to 80+ (or at least 85+ in overdrive)
      
    • Longer untech time on ground 4d counter hit or Return 4d counter hit to wallbounce, currently to unnecessarily to hard combo from
      
    • Be able to Aim j.D's direction up or down like iron mans j.fierce punch
      
      
      Gurren Punish: (its already good so cant thing of much to make it better)
      
      • Super armor
        
      • Remove or reduce extra landing recovery frames on whiff/block
        
        
        Sledgehamer: (this move needs to be better ASAP)
        
        • Normal blsedge travels as far as current fully charged versions distance
          
        • New fully charge version + hammer should be faster and travel close to full screen
          
        • Both versions of sledge + hammer have either super armor plus projectile armor or just super armor
          
        • Able to cancel charge animation back to neutral
          
        • Suction on charge up when magnetized
          
          
          Spark Bolt: (we need to be able to use spark bolt much more often)
          
          • Invuln on startup
            
          • One Full voltec charge = full spark meter
            
          • Faster automatic recharge rate like full meter every 10 sec
            

          Voltec charge: (its offensive ability sucks and needs to be better)

          [*]Add super armor or guard point to hammer counter (like unlimited version)

          [*]Return removed voltec 720 counter.

          [*]Current voltec 720 is trash at least add much bigger window for command input on voltec 720.

          Airbuster: (so far its a good move but it needs small improvements)

          [*]Larger hitbox

          [*]Some invuln frames

          [*]Remove/reduce extra landing recovery frames

          Atomic collider (i like new collider but it needs tweaks)

          [*]Replace invuln with upper body super armor from start up till end of suction

          [*]p2 is to low increase from 80 to 85

          [*]Opponent lands closer so Bsledge will connect on all chars for non mag combos midscreen and 6C gadget flinger will work on all opponents magnetized midscreen

          Supers: (why they heck do they refuse to give tager new supers out of everyone else?)

          [*]Standalone terra break super (from unlimited tager)

          [*]Atomic collider super (from unlimited tager)

          [*]Kokonoe finally gives him his tager beam but smaller faster weaker version of her mecha tager beam.

          Over drive: (it currently is a weak overdrive and needs improvement)

          [*]Also add instant magnetism

          [*]Greatly increase magnetizem pull and autiomatic suction

          [*]Instant full spark meter on activation

          [*]Increase P2 of D moves to 85+ so we can do cool over drive combos that actually do damage like everyone else

          [*]Gives back ability to combo after busters again like extend (ex. OD>360B>5b>4d into combo or super)

          I think these improvement to his current tools would fill the large glaring holes he has against the rest of the cast without needing to give him dashes or double jumps. It would make him solid in all areas like the rest of the really good characters in the game but not be overpowered if at least some of these were implemented from each area. It would also make landing counter hits a bigger part of his gameplay. What do you guys think? (Now i wait for people to come and tell me im all wrong! )

[TD]

You obviously want a tager version of that broke ho kokonoe, I'll just bite the bullet and ask what the hell are you thinking with all these changes. Reading these, a lot of them are just overdoing it. As a whole you might ask well have him audition for marvel.

[Lucalibur]

Too much superarmor. Too many proration buffs. 6A too strong.

[TagerTime]

You obviously want a tager version of that broke ho kokonoe, I'll just bite the bullet and ask what the hell are you thinking with all these changes. Reading these, a lot of them are just overdoing it. As a whole you might ask well have him audition for marvel.

IT'S MAHVEL BABY!!!!

I knew the non tager players would rush in and complain. I feed off your hate!

[natearistata]

As a long-time Tager player, you are beyond crazy if you believe those changes aren't OP as fuck and even merit discussion.

[NecroTheReaper]

I laughed. Makes me wonder if these were even thought about would happen if they were even implemented. Still, funniest thing I've read all day.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

As a long-time Tager player, you are beyond crazy if you believe those changes aren't OP as fuck and even merit discussion.

Basically this. I don't think he was being serious though.

[HoudiniJr100]

All I'd give tager that'd be remotely "new" is a helicopter grapple move distortion.

Who DOESNT wanna see him fly into the air like a god damn MECHA zangief? Lol

[Rhannmah]

The only thing Tager needs is a workable anti-air normal. Actually, all characters do.

[lolokoa]

new changes are up

Tager

5A/2A – Decreased combo starter time

3C – Decreased the startup of the attack

2D – Decreased recovery, hitstun on a grounded opponent, and blockstun. It is now better on whiff, but no change when it is blocked

Jump 2C – When it counterhits an opponent, the bounce height has been adjusted so that it can be confirmed the same way

Gadget Finger – Decreased Heat gain

more or less the same with a little better normals

[SoWL]

His 5A/2A nerfs are pretty big, but I think he should be fine even with those.

[Beat_By-X]

Tager low tier and nerf ?!!!

[Ctrlaltwtf]

A normals nerf is understandable. I don't think it'll make too much diff, honestly. The rest of the stuff seems nice.

My guess is they're putting GF heat gain back to +5

Edited February 13, 2014 by Ctrlaltwtf

[TagerTime]

new changes are up

Tager

5A/2A – Decreased combo starter time

3C – Decreased the startup of the attack

2D – Decreased recovery, hitstun on a grounded opponent, and blockstun. It is now better on whiff, but no change when it is blocked

Jump 2C – When it counterhits an opponent, the bounce height has been adjusted so that it can be confirmed the same way

Gadget Finger – Decreased Heat gain

more or less the same with a little better normals

Im very glad they fixed the probelm with Fatal j.2c.

See just like i said, overall buffs as expected. This was just a very minor balance patch anyway. We will have to wait for the next full game to get my major wishlist updates!

Tager low tier and nerf ?!!!

No and No

[Darlos9D]

So will blockstrings into 3C be solid?

Not that getting 3C blocked is really safe or anything...

[NumeroGaijin]

new changes are up

Tager

5A/2A – Decreased combo starter time

3C – Decreased the startup of the attack

2D – Decreased recovery, hitstun on a grounded opponent, and blockstun. It is now better on whiff, but no change when it is blocked

Jump 2C – When it counterhits an opponent, the bounce height has been adjusted so that it can be confirmed the same way

Gadget Finger – Decreased Heat gain

more or less the same with a little better normals

So 5a/2a got nerfed combo wise. This is a terrible change because our quick combos get nerfed considerably and our gf whiff combos that include 5a will mostly be gone. 3C having faster is okay but not even close to being important because he didn't say the disadvantage on block changed so I am sure all -6 of it is still there. 2D change is a good change and it is important because it changes those certain situation with those runaway characters such Mu and Nu. Jump 2C is a change that should have been in place but its awesome. Gadget finger nerf sucks. I am going to miss that meter gain.

Edit: Come to think of it.....where is our important buffs like something to deal with Tao and Valk????

Edited February 14, 2014 by NumeroGaijin

[TagerTime]

So 5a/2a got nerfed combo wise. This is a terrible change because our quick combos get nerfed considerably and our gf whiff combos that include 5a will mostly be gone.

5a/2a nerf only makes combo time less only if 5a/2a is used to start the combo. None of our gadget whiff combos start with 5a/2a so they will be completely unaffected by this change.

With 3c start up being faster it might hopefully give us enough time to add in an extra hit into all our combos using 3c before combo timer runs out, since 3c is used very early in many of our combos.

Also i agree that 2D being much faster on whiff is a great change. I just wish they made it so we could always combo on hit without rapid cancel

[Maho]

5A and 2A are already S starters, if those are changed to VS, this would be very bad, 5A wouldn't be much of a threat after a Gadget and the mixup would suffer a lot, maybe they'll give him a special starter value to get rid of the loop while still allowing for decent magentized combos.

For 3C, I'll wait to see how much frames faster it is but I don't think it will change much, same thing with 2D which duration is 60f on whiff, it's a buff but honestly if it's something like 5f, this wouldn't change the fact you don't want to whiff this move ever, we'll have to wait I guess.

j2C change just makes things easier but it's not like we couldn't combo most of the times with proper confirm, Gadget nerf isn't not too bad but I don't really see why they did this.

So one possible big nerf and some whatever buffs, pretty disappointed in the changes for now, hoping he gets some interesting non listed changes.

[TagerTime]

5A and 2A are already S starters, if those are changed to VS, this would be very bad, 5A wouldn't be much of a threat after a Gadget and the mixup would suffer a lot.

i think going from S to VS will reduce the combo time from 7.6 sec to 4.6 sec.

[Maho]

VS starter means the combo starts with 4f of hitstun decay, it's like comboing after a counter assault or a 360, you don't get much.

[TagerTime]

VS starter means the combo starts with 4f of hitstun decay, it's like comboing after a counter assault or a 360, you don't get much.

You get 4.6 seconds.

edit: it will be great if 3C buff gives us back 3C combos after busters again like in extend. It would be sweet doing combos after air buster lol.

Edited February 15, 2014 by TagerTime

[NumeroGaijin]

But even with buster combos it does not warrant that major nerf to our main easy damage normal. That is a retard trade by all means. I am sure now that faster 3C is signifying buster combos are back. That change to 3C and the nerf to gadget heat gain is a pretty much tell all. Now the question is this....if we assume buster combos are back ......will they opponent be able to burst the 3C before gadget comes out to avoid mag? What will the heat gain be combined with gadget's heat nerf? How much will this affect Tager overall? and lastly....what other secret nerfs did Mori put in there?????

[Maho]

You get 4.6 seconds.

Where do you get this number from?

Looking at the system data, a VS starter would make us start at 4f decay, one second of combo time put us at 6f and one more at 9f, with this most of Tager's combo become impossible. To test this I disabled tech and used counter assault RC to see what we can do from a VS starter, and it's really limited like the frame data says, so with 5A as a VS, the max combo might be something like 5A > 3C > AC whiff > 5C > AC.

For now we can just wait to get feedback from the JAEPO, but I'm pretty pessimistic as Valk as a similar nerf on his wjA and wjB, and the latest infos seems to be confirm those as VS starters.

[TagerTime]

But even with buster combos it does not warrant that major nerf to our main easy damage normal. That is a retard trade by all means. I am sure now that faster 3C is signifying buster combos are back. That change to 3C and the nerf to gadget heat gain is a pretty much tell all. Now the question is this....if we assume buster combos are back ......will they opponent be able to burst the 3C before gadget comes out to avoid mag? What will the heat gain be combined with gadget's heat nerf? How much will this affect Tager overall? and lastly....what other secret nerfs did Mori put in there?????

I do agree it is a stupid pointless and unnecessary nerf. We should have got all these buffs without this nerf, but i am happy for the rest of the overall buffs.

Where do you get this number from?

Looking at the system data, a VS starter would make us start at 4f decay, one second of combo time put us at 6f and one more at 9f, with this most of Tager's combo become impossible. To test this I disabled tech and used counter assault RC to see what we can do from a VS starter, and it's really limited like the frame data says, so with 5A as a VS, the max combo might be something like 5A > 3C > AC whiff > 5C > AC.

For now we can just wait to get feedback from the JAEPO, but I'm pretty pessimistic as Valk as a similar nerf on his wjA and wjB, and the latest infos seems to be confirm those as VS starters.

Im saying the total length of any normal combo from a VS starter is not supposed to exceed 4.6 seconds or 280 frames. It is the maximum amount of combo time you have to put a combo together.