[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

Much simpler than that lol, 214C is only used for corner carry or the 8k damage combo.

5B>3C>cOD>2C>214A>66214B>665C(1)>236C>214A>5C(1)>j.C>j.236C>j.214B>j.B>2C>6C>4D>3C>41236D is 5.8k, the 665C(1) is dash to the corner

5B>3C>6D>jcOD(6D hits)>2C>214A>66214B>>665C(1)>j.C>j.236C>j.214B>j.B>2C>6C>4D>632146D is 5.4k. The reason for no 3C>41236D is because the conditions I set for this combo just make it annoying to time since 4D hits while in OD

[Myoro]

I noticed a distinct lack of 236C>214A in those combos. I was wondering if you could end them with 6C>236C>214A>3C>distortion for better damage and same IG cost.

[NecroTheReaper]

Its in there, after the corner dash 5C(1).

[Myoro]

X( derp.

[NecroTheReaper]

As I said before, if you have enough OD for OD DDs, it raises the damage by 200 per combo, but the cOD requires like... <10% hp

[Iron Savior]

So 2c is now our jump canceleable move?, i don't see why they would change it from 3c, but if it was jump canceleable on block, this update wouldn't be as horrible as it seemed, at least for Relius

[Myoro]

But it's still a bad trade if it does jump cancel on block.

 

With 3C we had

 

-More reach so we could fit in more moves before we had to jump cancel to reset pressure

-Trip which allowed us to use our Bnb routes

-3C>neutral jump>falling j.C oki

 

With 2C we'll have

 

-A safer 2C (Hey that's always nice)

-Easier confirms from 2C/FC2C (Used to be a big issue)

-2C>TKj.236C (Never did like what 6B did to our damage)

-2C>jcOD (This holds some interesting possibilities)

 

 

Anyway, what's the hold up on finding new Rel' stuff? Did simply none exist? Why does no one from the loketest say anything about Zein? That move is the biggest mystery of them all...

[NecroTheReaper]

Don't forget the basic fact that 3C hit low. Then there's the fact that 3C has a faster startup. If this sticks, 3C is gonna be a horrible mixup option, since it'd require you cancel into a special or use ignis.

[Myoro]

Don't forget the basic fact that 3C hit low. Then there's the fact that 3C has a faster startup. If this sticks, 3C is gonna be a horrible mixup option, since it'd require you cancel into a special or use ignis.

 

I doubt ether of those options would be profitable too seeing as 6D would push them pretty far, 2D is super expensive, and the rest are nowhere near safe options. It's pretty much a combo tool if that change sticks.

[The Puppeter]

What if Relius can do 3C then 2C ? If this right he'll do combos without Ignis

What u think about this ?

[NecroTheReaper]

No 3C in the game has a normal gatling, I can't imagine that Relius would be the special one that did. Plus, like you just said, his combo routes wouls become rediculously easy.

[Errol]

Most likely it is a specifically targeted way of weakening his mixup/pressure. lots of chars have been hit with this stuff so I wouldn't be too worried. your pressure will stop being a 1p game but that's true for other chars too. consider it a shift in the game rather than a nerf to your char.

[NecroTheReaper]

But changing the game entirely I dislike more than just nerfing my character. If I'm not playin what BB has been up till now, then its not BB anymore.

[Errol]

I think it is good to keep things fresh. and I think reducing the bullshit people can do to you should make the game more enjoyable. I think it is more annoying being put into the stuff than it is fun to be able to do it yourself, personally. 

[NecroTheReaper]

Maybe if it weren't just a title update, I'd be more inclined to agree. As a revision of a game that's been out for nearly a year now, I don't like it.

[Errol]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. CP has been out for 2 years. it's not really too soon to make some larger changes. not weird by BB standards.

[NecroTheReaper]

So, CS1-2-EX completely changed each time and removed multiple options, right? I'm pretty sure that they all felt loosely similar without blanket nerfing thw entire cast. Also, saying there's less BS when Rachel so far hasn't shown to be changed nearly at all is kinda biased lol. I'm not the only one who doesn't really lime where things are heades either though, so opinipns are in tbe end, opinions.

[Errol]

Rachel is hella nerfed in the loketest bro.  Much more than anything I've heard of for Relius.

 

Prior to Cp, they had a new release every single year. They skipped a year with CP. 

 

CS-CS2-EX is more like CP-CP1.1-CP2.

 

and yeah things changed a lot from CS to EX. They are doing things a bit different , but yeah, IN GENERAL, revisions have reduced characters I believe.. the bullshit in CS1 was pretty nuts compared to EX. EX is much more tame.

[NecroTheReaper]

Anyway, I'm gonna get back on topic. Ypu realize how much 3C jump cancel getting removed cripples Relius, right? He had pretty easily reactable mixup before (the fuzzy not being included atm). With 3C gone, they effectively eliminated his mixup. We don't have any confirmation that his 2C is jump cancellable on block, so he has no useable jump cncellable moves in pressure now. This forces his mixup to revolve more arpund his 26f 6A, which, evem including ignis, has issues of its own (besides being vwry easy to notice).

[Errol]

Do you know how much rachel is crippled by having wind regen cut in less than half and being unable to get any oki off 3c at all? no pump, no frog, no summon supported oki

 

maybe my point is starting to be a bit clearer now.

[NecroTheReaper]

You've told me her pressure is shorter, not nonexistant.

[Myoro]

[Deleted]

[Errol]

she doesn't get a real combo off j.A, neutral is extremely nerfed because of wind, pressure is extremely nerfed because of wind, pressure is also escapable because of attack level nerfs, and oki? no oki because 3c pulls them forward and roll forward is guaranteed if you try to use pumpkin or frog. 

 

If you want to argue that rachel is better off than Relius just because you lost your 3c jump cancel, go ahead I guess.  Nu doesn't have any mixup that anyone knows of in CP with her overhead and crescent cancels being gone. lots of characters got lots of nerfs.

[NecroTheReaper]

Relius' gameplan revolves around locking down someone in his pressure though. When you negate what a character's strength is, what is left? Just because your options are more expensive, you still have them. Hell, doubling the ignis cost of all of our moves would give us more options than removal of jump cancel 3C. Arguement about Nu, was she suppose to be a close up-in your face mixup character? Not exactly, yet even then, I havnt heard of stuff like "physical attacks break her swords" or somethin like that either. If her zoning game was broken, I'd agree.

Another thing though, the lack of any regular Relius updates on this loketest isn't helping either of our arguments.

[Angry Guy of DE]

Relius/Kagura player checking on the thread.

Overall a lot of characters that had good oki set-ups have had them weakened or plain removed based on information from the CP2.0 Loketest.

Kagura lost his entire corner [4]6B oki setup with the hard knockdown with Stance 2A since it now causes a groundbounce similar to shadow-labrys in P4U2. 

Now granted Kagura is waaaaaay lower on the considered tier list but his oki gameplay that prevents delayed wake-up has been almost removed with changes as well as some of his combos so his oki and potential damage has been reduced.

Hopefully another update will bring better news but at the moment oki set-ups seem to be purposefully made weaker.