[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

When I watch Relius matches it certainly looks like it can go full screen.before the move comes out which doesn't happen currently, so I think so

[NecroTheReaper]

Sorry for double post, but for the game comin out tomorrow, we really seem behind to me. We're still missing a lot of frame data and the basic BnB's we've seen for a long while aren't up yet. Not tryin to sound impatient or anything like that, but... WHERE ARE ALL OUR RELIUS PLAYERS?

[TD]

I think you mean who will be leading the data unboxing. who are the mod(s) here? have you tried to contact them about it? it's clear they are afk and is unclear if they will come back from the bathroom. in the meantime, everyone is on their own.

of course, you could always lead by example...?

l do play and plan of continuing to play relius. if no one seriously tries to handle the data and combos, l -may- do it, and if so, i'll need some assistance.

[NecroTheReaper]

I'd help, but I'm unfamiliar with gettin all the different things from jp wepsites, I can't even work niconico -_-

[toanenadiz]

What frame data is missing? It looks like it is all here

[TD]

repost

214c tracks about 3/4 screen, by that time if the foe is not blocking or getting hit it'll just come out. l believe once its active now, ignis performs the dance in place or just doesn't move as much. even active with full track, l don't think her hitbox reaches quite fullscreen.

@necroreaper;then we'll need someone who can. someone to scour videos, some to analyze them for combo data, a translator for the jp stuff, and an overseer who makes sure everything comes together and posting the data. there is more but this is like the template for a basic detailed sub forum.

@toan; thanks for saving me some time.

[NecroTheReaper]

That update must've been fairly recent, cuz before I posted that statement, it was only completed up to throws... I swear I'm not crazy @.@

[TD]

we know you're not crazy... we know...

seriously though. so it seems like hard bread is our mod. hm. if we had more people posting here (and therefore more brains and hands), perhaps we can resurrect him. or at least flesh the place out a bit.

[toanenadiz]

He is definitely around. Hard Bread did the frame data yesterday and the day before.

[NecroTheReaper]

But where do we start from? I won't have access to CP till tomorrow afternoon by the earliest, but everywhere else had mixup ideas, heat usage, etc... do we even have combos posted in thr CP combo thread?

[WakeUpDP]

But where do we start from? I won't have access to CP till tomorrow afternoon by the earliest, but everywhere else had mixup ideas, heat usage, etc... do we even have combos posted in thr CP combo thread?

not atm, once I get my copy (friday or early next week) I plan on working on that thread along with anyone else interested. I'll probably be recording/upload the challenge combos if not done by then.

We could make a Q&A section for people interested in the character.

Edited October 24, 2013 by WakeUpDP

[Elochai]

I'm going to start throwing up stuff I find whenever my game comes.

Glad to see that we play the same character in another game, TD.

[TD]

He is definitely around. Hard Bread did the frame data yesterday and the day before.

very good! perhaps he is just waiting for cp to release to be active here again which makes sense.

with that out of the way, there is the rest to be done. there's still the videos scourer and the combo specialist. l could probably do that and the strategies. hard bread could be the overseer of course. threads to be archived, shit to be posted... crap i'm already investing more than expected, i'll likely take a role.

great, another member offers to help. this is going to work out.

[NecroTheReaper]

I'll have to get use to the new j.B>2C>6C>leis combo routs before I start makin some awesome combos. Luckily all of our oki stayed about the same, so a lot can just be copy and pasted with the exception of 22A/B/C for zoning for doll meter

Edited October 24, 2013 by NecroTheReaper

[TD]

I'm going to start throwing up stuff I find whenever my game comes. Glad to see that we play the same character in another game, TD.

yes, it is a pleasure to see you again as well. we have a good team right now, and not everyone wants to do combos lol, so we should have every role filled soon.

[NecroTheReaper]

I spend a lot of time doing combos, but I honestly feel my neutral game is really lacking in general. I dunno if I'm not doin somethin I should be doin or if I just make bad calls, but a neutral guide I'd think is nice xD;

[TD]

this is the purest form of how you should play this character.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?16551-A-Relius-Beginner-Guide

there are a few details missing but for the most part, your general gameplan run and summon, rushdown/zone, desummon and run. the optimal position is you in their face with over 5000 ic guage to spend, be it frugally or liberally just get the hit, desummon, and dip. repeat.

l remember pming a member on this before, let me see if l still have that to post.

[NecroTheReaper]

Generally having enough Ignis to combo isn't my issue, since I use the tk lauger path right now, and the main combo path in CP is very light on ignis usage. I guess I just make a lot of mistakes. Like when I summon ignis, I go straight for 214A and it gets blocked and they tap her out on the recovery. Sometimes I just j.D spam, but I've had it wiff just to have someone hit me in the recovery xD but maybe there should be a critique thread? Feel like I'd learn more if others told me my mistakes (other than 2C mash)

[TD]

those are common mistakes.

hopefully l can get that fixed for you right now as most of this stuff carries over like a boss.

found the two posts. theyre long so l hope you like reading. very technical, very 'do this, do that'. gave them to the guy after he said he needed help writing the guide; pretty much wrote the guide myself and never heare from him again.... also funny

anyway give me a few seconds to find my iphone so l can post it.

[TD]

Neutral is pretty simple; find a way to get in using ignis. Relius can zone decently, however unless he's fighting another zoner (ignis shits on projectiles), he needs to get in and close the gap.

214a will put ignis midscreen from fullscreen. placing her between you and your opponent. from here, there are a few things you can do. It's going to require a bit of foresight, because the wrong attack will get ignis dismissed, or the foe will be able to run away or through her.

...214a will plow through projectiles and punish the startup of any attack the foeay be using. More likely than not it puts ignis behind the foe. Not extremely useful due to the cost of two 214a and needing even more meter to mount an offense.

...214c is the primary approach method. breaks a primer and is a lot of +

...4d stops people from jumping over 214c if theyve done so already

...2d stops people from trying to hit or go through her and allows an approach

...6d is fast and safe to use multiple times to discourage attacks. Allows a run in too with [66]d.

These latter four moves will keep ignis in the foes face so that you don't have to 214a again.

214a is beatable if the foe can hit her before the recovery, puttin her in slow regen state and rendering you vulnerable. Some good things to do would be to launch her with 214a and IAD, daring the foe to hit her so you can punish; summoning her and waiting for the foe to come to you; discouraging setups using 214b; finally, good use of movement including dash barrier, super jumps, and the j.xd series as an alternate form of approach/keepaway.

***

Rushdown gameplan depends almost entirely on whether ignis is active or not, and how much meter she has. Generally, if meter is close to full you can summon her; when low, dismiss her, with several variations depending on meter, ignis' regen state, and who he is fighting.

If you manage to pressure before ignis out, there are a few things to keep in mind. Do I have ignis gauge? If so, get her out quickly using 214a or d (other moves will require some conditioning to do in a blockstring). If the gauge is low, stall with strings like 2a 2a 2a 5b 2c 6c. Strings like this regen a lot of gauge when in normal regen state and will get rid of slow regen state. Because all of his normals cancel into 214a, there is plenty of versatility in his strings. Even if the foe assumes a raw 214a and dp's, you can led ley instead which will likely give you a nice ch 3c combo.

If ignis is otherwise inaccessible, be it by broken or slow regen state, running away is a decent option. The above string is good if you replace the 6c for a 3c, which allows you to retreat with impunity. From there, you won't have to wait long to re summon the doll, IF she didn't break.

Once ignis is out, you have a good deal of freedom. Generally, relius has weak mixup. He makes up for that with amazing pressure, and the ability to make the foe think he's unsafe. Once the foe knows to do nothing but block, you can try to 50/50 using things like 3cd jump low air dash jb/2b, a grounded 6a/2b, among a few others. Again, mixup is not his specialty. Do not get discouraged if your very slow 6a gets blocked. It shows your foe can react to one of the slowest overheads in the game. More importantly it means your foe is willing to respect your pressure, making those air dash mixups more potent.

6d and 2d are your best friends here. One hit and two hits respectively, these moves make all of your normals more or less safe. 214a, b, and c needs time to setup but there are some offer mixup potential. 214d and 236d are really oki tools that need massive time to setup, but can be used sparingly in pressure. Try to only go for the unblockables as these are guaranteed damage. Throws are also important. With all the pressure he can dish out, a throw is unlikely to be escaped. Do NOT throw after you dismiss a low gauge ignis - this is so common, I can't tell you how many players I've seen blown up by attempting this. Remember, your foe isn't just blocking. He needs to look at your gauge, because that gauge pretty much dictates everything you do.

Defense is obviously his weakest point. He wasn't designed to give up momentum very often. If he does, even with meter his defensive options are mediocre at best.

His options are 236a(6/2d), gear/black ball super, and the general counter assault/jump/mash/backdash/barrier/instant block. His 5a and 2a are not good enough to make the cut. Not having a mash able normal is very bad for anyone, but especially for relius. Most of his standard options can be beaten by a safe jump or a throw. 236a should never be used without ignis, which, given the nature of the doll, isn't very often. Even with her out, 236a with 6 and 2d need to hit BEFORE the twirl is done, and 6d can be hit out of its startup leaving relius extremely vulnerable.

Gear super can be jumped over and does crap damage. It does setup up unblockables though, and gives you time to setup whatever. Black ball super is safe outside of point blanks range and does 2k alone, but needs 50 additional heat and the corner to follow up. General options mostly lose to meaties or whatever the general counters are.

That about sums up what I wrote then, covering most his tools. Besides normals, jxd attacks, and bel lafino which has a limited use.

I didn't spell check, don't ask but it should be mostly fine anyway.

[NecroTheReaper]

I dunno why I never thought about using 2D after a 214A :/ If we start up a critique thread, I'll definitely be posting a lot in it once I get my hands on the game. I also obviously need to work on defense, but that's not character specific. Generally I use 214C for oki almost all the time because a lot of people for some reason mash it... no clue why xD

[TD]

So is everyone on board at the moment to pitch in and make this sub forum decent? No one has to decide today. There is a lot to do, and not everyone has the time or patience to do it. Hard bread is doing his share but I doubt he can do it all by himself.

In particular we really really need a person who can find videos on YouTube and/or nico, the former being partly covered by the video posting thread. Combos I don't mind doing at some point. It'll be best to have two or three people working on the notations, damage and heat gain, and then there's the matchup threads that need to be filled as time goes on.

[NecroTheReaper]

Matchup threads should steadily fill out, but shouldn't we clear em for CP or just add on to the extend ones? I specifically only look for relius videos when I'm on Jourdal's channel, but like you said, that's YT which is covered in the video thread.

[WakeUpDP]

I'd be interested.

I'll keep on updating the Relius video thread. I'll add kyuu vids from the past week. And then training mode/combo thread when the game ships in.

A critique thread would be cool.

Edit: Done, updated the last post in the video thread. Lots of Kyuu gameplay!

Edited October 24, 2013 by WakeUpDP

[TD]

@necro: we should not add to the extend ones as these are two different games. even if one matchup between the two remained the same, it just wouldn't be a good idea, it's very confusing.

and what l meant is someone to take charge of the matchups. someone to post new findings, spark discussion, someone with knowledge of the matchups and can invite other character specialists to help with particular matchup threads. now that, is a chatacter thread.

quickly look at someone like lord knight's or kiba's matchup threads and you'll get the gist of what every thread should ultimately look like.

@wakeupdp: your help would be much appreciated, thanks.

sometime over the weekend l will start finding combos to post with videos. for now, since the game is out, a critique thread is in order.