Most balanced Guilty Gear game?

[Zerite]

ABA was A tier in slash. If you think she was B tier, you forgot how almost no characters could do consistent damage in Slash. Yeah, it was possible to get really pressured by say, Ky or Venom and get crushed, but everyone else was like, oh no HUGE DAMAGE WTF. Also, slash was the most balanced, because the difference between the best character, Ky, and the rest of the cast was the lowest. Or, AC is the most balanced, because the average variance in strength between character's was the lowest. I'm personally going to go with AC, because everyone's got damage.

[Hellmonkey]

Also, slash was the most balanced, because the difference between the best character, Ky, and the rest of the cast was the lowest.

You mean the opposite, right?

[Zerite]

have you played AC or reload? the variance between eddie and the rest of the cast is much larger than the difference between ky and the rest of the cast in slash.

[Frank The Tank]

It really isn't.

[4r5]

So what would be you two's reasoning?

[Kyosuke Kagami]

IIRC Sol wasn't even that good in X. Johnny was #1 for sure, and I think Jam and Millia were pretty high up there.

In any case, AC is the most balanced in terms of gaps in tiers, but match up wise I think it's less balanced that Slash, if that makes any sense. Slash was pretty boring... but there wasn't insane amounts of bullshit like there is in AC. IMO the only truly unbalanced thing about Slash was Robo-Ky because he was so god damn awful compared to everyone else. Everything else was fine.

UGH... why do my favorite characters in both GG and BB (:KY: and in GG, in BB) always get the "raep'd" treatment at least ONCE?

... I must admit it is fun to play Ky in XX and #R and having a hard time playing Slayers or Zatos

Slash Robo Ky was, in few words, MASOCHIST SHIT. No need to say more. So damned hard to do anything, you end up dreaming at how much his overall moveset sucks and all the times you get raped because you can't still get used to them

[Hellmonkey]

have you played AC or reload? the variance between eddie and the rest of the cast is much larger than the difference between ky and the rest of the cast in slash.

Actually, Ky was considered significantly better than the rest of the cast, with only Sol being remotely close, whereas Eddie in Reload was considered hardly better than the rest of the top tier (robo, dizzy, jam, slayer, millia)

As for bottom tier, in Reload there were some characters with awful matches against top tier, but overall it wasn't that bad. Slash bottom tier was just shitty all around. Robo was practically a joke character, and Dizzy, hos, a few others were just terrible.

Every character in AC has the tools to win any matchup. Winning in AC is much less dependent on the characters being played and much more dependent on the player's matchup knowledge and (obviously) ability to execute to apply it. Even the worst matchups in the game are fairly easily dominated if the disadvantaged character has even slightly better matchup experience. It is significantly more balanced than Reload or Slash.

[DandyStepper]

Every character in AC has the tools to win any matchup. Winning in AC is much less dependent on the characters being played and much more dependent on the player's matchup knowledge and (obviously) ability to execute to apply it. Even the worst matchups in the game are fairly easily dominated if the disadvantaged character has even slightly better matchup experience. It is significantly more balanced than Reload or Slash.

/thread

The only reason i could see defending slash is that its much slower that AC. Not everyone dies in 2 combos. But thats not reason enough to say that slash is more balanced. HnK is pretty balanced and everyone dies in 1 combo Its as long as everyone can do what needs to be done that determines balance.

[4r5]

It's not the Slash is slower, it's that AC is too fast. At least all the console ports anyways.

[Effenhoog]

I ate triple unblockables from Eddie and 70-80% combos from Slayer all day on Saturday, but I would still prefer that over going back to Slash Dizzy. I think most people just prefer the game where their own character isn't horrible.

[Kyosuke Kagami]

I ate triple unblockables from Eddie and 70-80% combos from Slayer all day on Saturday, but I would still prefer that over going back to Slash Dizzy. I think most people just prefer the game where their own character isn't horrible.

Well, Ky, Venom, Chipp and Anji were kinda weak in most games (except Slash) and that never stopped some players from using them

Also IIRC this kaqn guy (forgot his nick) had a really nice HOS in Slash.

[Redefinition]

Well, Ky, Venom, Chipp and Anji were kinda weak in most games (except Slash) and that never stopped some players from using them

Also IIRC this kaqn guy (forgot his nick) had a really nice HOS in Slash.

I'd like to point out that Venom was pretty B-tier in Reload and AC, but dropped to C in Slash.

Also Slash Robo-Ky and Dizzy. Ouch.

[Shining Aquas]

I'm actually glad I never played any GG games before AC. Might have gone in with all kinds of whack misconceptions regarding character balance. Don't need no Slash to change my opinion of AC Anji.

[utilityname]

Since it seems relevant to this discussion, I'm wondering which characters are the most unchanged across the series, particularly between #R and AC. in other words, If all you played was #R and then sat down for an AC match, which characters would be the least different in terms of move set, strategy, etc.

[Frank The Tank]

It's not the Slash is slower, it's that AC is too fast. At least all the console ports anyways.

How many times are you gonna be around an AC cabinet for it to matter? It didn't take me long to adjust the one time I was around the arcade version.

[4r5]

Yes, yes. I realize that it's some what moot. No one's going to go back to playing an import-only version of Guilty Gear, and I'm not trying to propose it. I was just pointing out that the speed difference isn't by design.

[Hellmonkey]

The slowdown from naomi board doesn't really change shit, you have to adjust your timing slightly on a few things and that's about it.

[Zenmetsu]

Since it seems relevant to this discussion, I'm wondering which characters are the most unchanged across the series, particularly between #R and AC. in other words, If all you played was #R and then sat down for an AC match, which characters would be the least different in terms of move set, strategy, etc.

Eh, it's questionable but I'd say either Ino or Potemkin. Ino just got new moves and buffs but her old stuff from #R is more or less intact. You can also play Pot #R-style in AC if you felt like it.

[Luv-Sic]

Eh, it's questionable but I'd say either Ino or Potemkin. Ino just got new moves and buffs but her old stuff from #R is more or less intact. You can also play Pot #R-style in AC if you felt like it.

I can't speak for Potemkin, but I think you might be wrong about I-no. They gave her the ability to jump/dash from a hover dash, creating a slew of new mixups (this alone is a big change imo). Also, they gave her vcl and changed her dive properties allowing more mixups and combos. The list goes on...

I wanna say that the changes they made w/ her is similar to Baikens, but not sure.

As for the characters that changed the least from reload to accent core...it's hard to say unless you get the opinion of someone who has played at least every character (from reload to accent core) at a competitive level imo.

[Zenmetsu]

All those things you mentioned are just additional buffs to the character and not changes that completely overhaul the character. But if you ignored all those buffs and just wanted to play #R style in AC, then Ino would probably best fit that purpose compared to the rest of the cast. It's not like she had old moves removed and/or completely overhauled like the majority of the characters, who for the most part have brand new combos that completely replaced their old B&Bs. I guess you could also play the current Chipp #R style too, since his old B&Bs and mix-ups are still there. If you disregard the fact that Ky's old CSE had to be done with HS instead of D then his playstyle didn't change much either. Just play Pot.

[Hellmonkey]

Most of the characters are similar in play style because their movement and normals are mostly the same. The biggest changes for everyone are combos. Added tools and removed dumb shit hasn't changed how characters play too much.

[Kyosuke Kagami]

I'd like to point out that Venom was pretty B-tier in Reload and AC, but dropped to C in Slash.

Also Slash Robo-Ky and Dizzy. Ouch.

Yeah?

Last time I checked, Venom was ranked D (next to Ky) in #R. Forgot about Slash.

[Guilty Soul]

Dizzy in #R her combos were so easy to do and she was so fast, but in AC there was a big down grade. They made her slow, took her strong specials away and gave em to Slayer. WTF they made Slayer to strong with his special, hit by it it could be the end of the match. Dizzy used to be like that.

[Redefinition]

Yeah?

Last time I checked, Venom was ranked D (next to Ky) in #R. Forgot about Slash.

Huh. I was mostly going on what was on SRK's wiki, but according to arcadia that's right. My bad.

[Zerite]

So my opinion is skewed because I was playing Zappa that whole time. He got better in every version, but any time they go and make eddie testament, and venom better, I'm just going o feel like the game got less balanced. I can at least run under Ky's projectiles, so he was never as difficult to deal with as Eddie in #R or AC.