Narroo Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 A 25% reactionary punish that's easier than doing say, a VV with higher reward... Costs 25% meter. It would be kinda lame for meterless reversals to be better than meter options, even if they're universal.
RoBoBOBR Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Around 0,25 of a second (15F) was reported by ElvenShadow IIRC
Henaki Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Costs 25% meter. It would be kinda lame for meterless reversals to be better than meter options, even if they're universal. If it has no startup (does it? I don't think it does) it's better than a reversal super and reversal RC (on hit) with lowered input time on reaction. I don't hate the option but I definitely see it subtracting choice. Obviously I'm being a dumblord on the internet nitpicking a mechanic we don't fully understand yet in an unreleased game so please keep in mind if I'm wrong that's good since I'm basing this opinion off incomplete information and out of like everything I've heard about Xrd this and Danger Time are the only questionable design choices I've seen. Edited February 4, 2014 by Henaki
Kitsoru Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Speaking of that-- any word on if Danger Time is still in? Since some reports sounded like the clash mechanic was changed yet again?
Final Ultima Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Speaking of that-- any word on if Danger Time is still in? Since some reports sounded like the clash mechanic was changed yet again?The System page still has the same information post-update, so I would assume it's still present in the same capacity as before.
Climhazzardous Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 One last thing about BS's though, I hope the confirmation is short enough that if you aren't fast enough or don't have your wits about you, then you miss your chance. I don't want it being like BB's gold bursts where you get an infinite time to hit confirm. You gotta work for that shit till the end and I don't want it ruining the pace of the game.
Digital Watches Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Meh. The metagame implications of BS are the same if it's confirmable at all. The relevant facts here, as I understand them, are: -25% meter cost -0F startup counterattack -Gets you an unscaled combo -Calls out ~15F worth of potential active frames (That's a huge window. The implication is that you don't have to call out a specific attack, just the fact that an attack will happen at all). As system mechanics go, I assume that's going to be pretty game-changing. Making it harder to confirm just means you'll see lower-level players screw up what they're supposed to do more, which in my mind is a completely uninteresting feature of the mechanic. What I want to know is what choices does it create for players, and what choices does it remove? I fear that the latter category will be kind of huge, especially if you can do it on wakeup.
Amadeus46Art Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Well, one thing to keep in mind is that you could never Slashback on wakeup in AC/ACR as a reversal. I don't remember the number of frames off hand but there was a period of time before you were able to SB upon getting up. So hopefully with Blitz Shield they carry this over.
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 A lot of this will depend on Arc's goal with this new system. If they're trying to get new players into the game, a mechanic designed to get them out of GG's historically strong wakeup game would make sense, which would probably be Blitz Shield. Only time will tell.
Henaki Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) . What I want to know is what choices does it create for players, and what choices does it remove? I fear that the latter category will be kind of huge, especially if you can do it on wakeup. Exactly. There's often more nuance to counters (IB requires knowing the general timing and offers pretty low reward by itseelf), reversals offer high chance of beating anything but high chance of counter attack, and often don't lead to high amounts of damage, reactionary counters are often extremely specific so looking for instances to say 6P a certain move requires not being able to concentrate on other highly specialized counters etc. Blitz Shield seems to cover all of these bases strengths while not keeping all of the weaknesses at the same time. Basically it's catch all counterplay to a lot of options, which is the same problem I had with force breaks and certain FRCs...A lot of this will depend on Arc's goal with this new system. If they're trying to get new players into the game, a mechanic designed to get them out of GG's historically strong wakeup game would make sense, which would probably be Blitz Shield. Only time will tell. I love the idea of an easy input parry that can give people enough rope to hang themselves with, but always feel like they can escape any situation (this is why idiots LOVE 3rd strike parry, it creates the illusion of fairness while at the same time making high level play ungodly unfun), but I hate this particular execution of it. If it just had another drawback to it that made it so you had to have some sort of nuance to the choice of using it over a lot of other defensive options, but still "countering" a ton of situations, I'd be happy for it. It's why Burst is awesome, IMO. It gives you the feeling of not being hopeless, acts as a catchall countermeasure to a lot of BS (you always get 2 chances per round), while at the same time, having both nuance, counterplay that is character and situation specific, and doesn't just take over the game as a mechanic since it's only going to be used around once a round. Actually, that' a pretty fun random thought: make BS cost some burst meter too. Edited February 5, 2014 by Henaki
ElvenShadow Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 To answer a few... You can't YRC ANY moves on hit/block. Not even projectiles. Can't BS while blocking If you land a BS from too far it may be hard to land a good combo. If from full screen you probably won't be able to hit with anything but it could help you get in closer Absorbing projectiles in general doesn't seem great unless up close to punish recovery Keep in mind that you can't BS supers Its hard to say exactly how long active and recovery for BS. Ill be at the loketest over the weekend. Ill try it out more. Anyone notice any Faust changes?
HoudiniJr100 Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 To answer a few... You can't YRC ANY moves on hit/block. Not even projectiles. Can't BS while blocking If you land a BS from too far it may be hard to land a good combo. If from full screen you probably won't be able to hit with anything but it could help you get in closer Absorbing projectiles in general doesn't seem great unless up close to punish recovery Keep in mind that you can't BS supers Its hard to say exactly how long active and recovery for BS. Ill be at the loketest over the weekend. Ill try it out more. Anyone notice any Faust changes? I havebn't, also if you manage to kanchou slayer if you decide to try faust at the loketest....you must tell me in full detail his reaction (because I doubt someone'll get any footage of it :P)
STenSatsu Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Well, doesn't BSing a ground move just knock them back? I thought it was only the air moves that really set you up for a combo. If that is true then it just means you can't predictably jump/iad in with an attack which is generally the case anyway.
Jocelot Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Sorry I can't remember if it has been covered, but I'm guessing you can't BS Bedman's Deja vu stuff, eh?
ElvenShadow Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Well, doesn't BSing a ground move just knock them back? I thought it was only the air moves that really set you up for a combo. If that is true then it just means you can't predictably jump/iad in with an attack which is generally the case anyway. BSing any physical attack results in the same recoil animation state that makes the opponent vulnerable. If done against an air move they just float a little as opposed to a ground move where they stand there. Yes it pushes back slightly meaning most of the time you may not get optimal damage combos unless you BS right up close. Also Bedman Déjà vu moves are projectiles so yes you can BS them but Bedman isn't affected. Just absorbs the projectile.
Horokei Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Well, doesn't BSing a ground move just knock them back? Successful BS puts grounded opponent into "Repel" state (like old clash system at 1 loketest). It's sorta like a stagger and can be continued into combo. IIRC BS has CH state during recovery. So risk of using BS can be pretty high, but still it's really cheap option IMHO.
muerto Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 stuff Anyone notice any Faust changes? zinac posted some yesterday
phantomBlade Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) To answer a few... You can't YRC ANY moves on hit/block. Can you YRC during opponent block stun? Are blue bursts easier to bait because of YRC? Basically I'm asking if I can feint anything, at any time, with YRC. Edited February 5, 2014 by phantomBlade
Xtra_Zero Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 The dealbreaker for BS is that it puts the opponent in a recoil state. This specifically is what makes it dumb. I was thinking about the Melty shield mechanic and why that worked. I was comparing the two mechanics and this really stuck out. The reason you didn't see shield dominating was because depending on the shielded move you might not actually get a punish, and sometimes it might even put you in a worse situation, despite shielding properly. Other things that contributed were that shield had a pretty small hitbox so you had to have a general idea of which attack was coming if you were going to shield something. These nuances made it much riskier to throw out because of situation dependencies. BS sounds way less situational.
phantomBlade Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 .... Chaos code has a BS mechanic. It takes up a super to use. That game has 4 stock max super, so basically it's the exact same meter usage as Xrd. It also puts the enemy in a stagger state, vulnerable for combo. If you guys wanna experience BS, play chaos code. The mechanic doesn't seem all that broken either (it's baitable/throwable). Add in the fact that (still trying to confirm) in Xrd, almost everything is feint-able through YRC, then the mechanic might be pretty weak against a good offense.
Kyosuke Kagami Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 >You can't YRC ANY moves on hit/block. Well... this sounds like the way Roman Cancel always worked. If move hits enemy (block or hit confirm) you'll get red Roman Cancel Or am I getting this wrong?
4r5 Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Well people were saying that YRC would be like an easy FRC, but if you can't YRC on connect, then it's very different from what an FRC is.
Kyosuke Kagami Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Well people were saying that YRC would be like an easy FRC, but if you can't YRC on connect, then it's very different from what an FRC is. Well, FRC doesn't give a shit if you land the hit or not, as soon as you press the buttons within the activation window. But yeah, I suspected YRC would work like this, but we finally get confirmation of this. In any case. Now, since this also affects projectiles and Guilty Gear NEVER allowed you to red Roman Cancel any projectiles before, does this mean if you throw a projectile, it gets blocked and you didn't YRCed it on time, you're totally free for a counter?
4r5 Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Hey so, PS3 controller "compatibility" with PS4's is set per software. Can we bombard ArcSys's US and JP twitter accounts and get them to flip that switch.
phantomBlade Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Yes we can. https://twitter.com/ArcSystemWorksU
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