Destin Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I just hope you can't parry projectiles. I also hope you don't get damage or get setup for guaranteed damage off parries. I honestly hate parries so I'll have to see how this goes.
Akujikan Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I just hope you can't parry projectiles. I also hope you don't get damage or get setup for guaranteed damage off parries. I honestly hate parries so I'll have to see how this goes. If it turns out to be a super-auto-clash-thing then it will probably kill projectiles, but given that there will probably be some recovery on this mechanic Blitz Shielding them may not always be a good idea. I'm happy to see them adding new meaningful ways to spend meter, especially defensively. And just like the old clash system that didn't make it to this round of testing, maybe it'll get cut before the final release.
Kyosuke Kagami Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 This shit sounds more like Last Blade's repel button than a parry. I mean, IIRC repel could only stop physical attacks, but it was vulnerable to throws and projectiles
Hecatom Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I just hope you can't parry projectiles. I also hope you don't get damage or get setup for guaranteed damage off parries. I honestly hate parries so I'll have to see how this goes. Seeing how well done are the slash backs (GGAC) and the gatchis (BF) i think there is a low chance that they fuck it up. What it actually worries me is danger time being random, unless that was a mistranslation/ new info is available
Destin Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Seeing how well done are the slash backs (GGAC) and the gatchis (BF) i think there is a low chance that they fuck it up. What it actually worries me is danger time being random, unless that was a mistranslation/ new info is available I didn't feel slashbacks were done well at all. But I don't think this is the same design team at the top level.
Mumm-Ra Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 What it actually worries me is danger time being random, unless that was a mistranslation/ new info is available Same here, what's up with that?
Chrome Homura Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 From my understanding of it the post a few pages back explained it fairly clearly. The most notable point IMO was the fact that there's a very low chance of danger time occurring at all... as such, given that this is something that can only happen off a clash (clashes don't happen all that much to begin with) I don't see it being a problem.
Sym_ Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Danger time sounds like a gimmick for the ADD kids. I hope it doesn't make the cut.
Agni Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Danger time sounds like a gimmick for the ADD kids. I hope it doesn't make the cut. >Has ADHD >Doesn't like this idea I hate random mechanics in FGs unless they're part of a special playstyle (like Luck Arcana in Arcana Heart) This better be some kind of mistranslation or an optional toggle.
ElvenShadow Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) So ill be at the loketest in Tokyo Saturday morning to post a lot of live updates in small chunks like last time. Posting one big organized list will result in much slower flow of info plus ill be posting from my phone so the easier the better. Question for mods: would you prefer I... A: just clutter up this thread like last time? B: post in official news thread even though it will be kinda raw...? C: start a new thead for live updates from 2nd loketest so that someone else can compile the info neatly into a nice neat list in the official thread? Also, to everyone else, I am happy to answer specific question requests but some things to keep in mind: - the wait may be long and some things get priorit over others - some things are too hard to test unless my opponent is cooperative or does specific things (some people are cool about letting you test and some just play all hard and serious to try to stay on longer) - some information will be obtained from observation. It is possible that I may mistake things as I am not an expert on every single character. I will do my best to post accurate info and will make corrections if I realize something I posted was incorrect. - if I don't answer your question, I either A. Don't know yet. B. your question has already been answered or is stupid. C. It hasn't changed from loketest 1. I really don't want to repeat info so just read all posts carefully before asking stuff. That's all. Thanks! Oh and I'm not gonna ninja videos so don't ask. Someone else is bound to though. Edited November 1, 2013 by ElvenShadow
Kyosuke Kagami Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Elven, thank you! Only question I have is: can you find out in which exact conditions do you have to RC anything to get Yellow one? So far I've understood about it is, it works similar to FRC but you have like... all the startup frames in a special move (also normals?) to execute that shit. I imagine Ky, being a strong projectile char, will be benefited from this but I would want to know more about it. Also, could you find out if Purple Roman Cancel still exists, or it was just a small confusion from the 1st loketest?
Jocelot Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 What Kyosuke said is everything I was hoping you'd check out honestly, lol. That and maybe play around with that newfangled Blitz Shield mechanic if you got extra time/ see if you noticed anything noticeably different in the overall game since last you played.
fiendmaw Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Is the last character(the empty space) going to be revealed during the loketest?
Kyosuke Kagami Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Is the last character(the empty space) going to be revealed during the loketest? Wasn't that one Slayer?
xlolxlolx Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Elven, thank you! Only question I have is: can you find out in which exact conditions do you have to RC anything to get Yellow one? So far I've understood about it is, it works similar to FRC but you have like... all the startup frames in a special move (also normals?) to execute that shit. I imagine Ky, being a strong projectile char, will be benefited from this but I would want to know more about it. Also, could you find out if Purple Roman Cancel still exists, or it was just a small confusion from the 1st loketest? im almost certain that yrc is just frc during the given frc frames now, in the new loketest manual they show that it took off only 25 tension for the gunflame rc and it looks about correct for the frc window
redsilversnake Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Dunno if this was checked during the first loketest, but if not, can you see whether or not projectiles raise the R.I.S.C. gauge?
Kyosuke Kagami Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 im almost certain that yrc is just frc during the given frc frames now, in the new loketest manual they show that it took off only 25 tension for the gunflame rc and it looks about correct for the frc window I can't see that in a still picture. For what I can guess, you could get a bit more delayed with the timing and you'd still get it. IMO it seems like you will have bigger executions windows for YRCs (3 or 4 frames?) which will be more permissive, unlike FRC (1 or 2 frames, specific window)
TheRealBobMan Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 You know, if Yellow FRCs are used for the startup of a projectile, and regular (Red) RCs are what we already know, maybe Purple will cover cancels done on normals that whiff? Was that already accounted for?
the_d3v Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) I'd like to see what exactly they did to YRCs vs RRCs now that they only cost 25% meter, considering that Daisuke has stated that he didn't like how 25% meter options were seemingly more prevalent than 50% options. At the very least, I'm guessing that they'll have more pronounced differences in the amount of timeslow. That and further limit the number of moves that can be YRCed compared to those that could be FRCed. You know, if Yellow FRCs are used for the startup of a projectile, and regular (Red) RCs are what we already know, maybe Purple will cover cancels done on normals that whiff? Was that already accounted for? Actually, I believe that someone did say that PRCs during the last loketest were done during the recovery frames of whiffed moves. Edited November 1, 2013 by the_d3v
White Man Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 I just hope you can't parry projectiles. I also hope you don't get damage or get setup for guaranteed damage off parries. I honestly hate parries so I'll have to see how this goes. I dislike Slashbacks and SFIII-style parrying since they're so easy to throw out and seem to reward guessing more often than they should. Yeah, you leave yourself open to attack if you mistimed it, but it's still a relatively low-risk option that can result in an extremely high reward. I think making the move cost meter is a great way to implement some kind of parry mechanic while keeping it balanced. Tension is so important in GG that gambling a fourth of your meter makes it a high risk/high reward option and not something you're likely to use unless you're punishing your opponent for being extremely predictable. Really though, how useful the technique ends up being depends on how they implement it. I've seen way too many mechanics in a ton of different fighters that sound completely broken on paper but end up being largely ignored by players because they're just not practical in actual gameplay.
Kyosuke Kagami Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Actually, I wish Blitz has a LONGER window. I mean, IIRC Slashback was like.. what? 1 frame? Sorry, but that's bullcrap for me, not worth the risk, considering that you're defenceless if you screw it up. 3 frames would be fine for me. But isn't it supposed to cause a "repel" status to your opponent if you're successful? That sounds like Blitz only works vs physical attacks (so projectiles are out).
TheRealBobMan Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Slashbacks aren't exactly easy to throw out... with a window of 2 frames (I think a 3rd strike parry is 8 frames?), you have to know exactly when a move is going to start up. That limits it to a risky guess that the other guy will do what you're predicting / watching for, or a really slow move that you can see start that doesn't have a cancel point on startup. If a move is fast, but slow enough that you can reaction parry, you're opening yourself to be mixed up by not watching for other moves.. Basically, something faster than 12 frames of telegraph time is 99.9% prediction since you almost can't react that fast (shaving a frame or two off is possible). When you're at the 12 frame threshold, it's possible, but you have to be watching for EXACTLY for a specific move, which means you're not watching for any of the other things your opponent can be doing. That is a high risk, let alone missing the window because you mistimed it. If you watch for specifically 1 move so you can slashback it, you're pretty vulnerable to mixup. You can learn to cover your ass and only do it in situations where it's unlikely that they can do anything about the attempt, but even then you're vulnerable to something. Or, you could go balls-in on a guess without trying to watch for the move startup (just go off of opponent rhythm), but that's risky for plenty of other reasons. SBs can be baited. As far as I know parries in 3rd strike have their set duration, and pretty much only Hugo can do something like jab > super throw to bait one. With SB, blockstun is reduced to 2 frames, but if you SB a move that the other guys cancels into another fast move, only a reversal will go through that. And they also have the option to do some sort of other cancel (jump or RC or whatever) to become safe anyway. If you SB a slower move, odds are it's going to be a lvl 5, which means there's 15 frames of block-pause to use to block-confirm the slashback and try to become safe. SB's also telegraph failed attempts, which gives the attacker something to read. They also don't mess with crossup potential like 3rd strike parries do. That whole back/forward thing was silly. It's like... you're going to get crossed up, so hit either direction as if to instant block. Either you block or parry. And it didn't help that combos and block strings didn't work off of a gatling system... in GG you can do the same exact block string with varied timing because you can cancel at any point during active frames, which prevents dial-a-slashback style defense. Didn't 3rd strike have to do that "red parries are parries during block stun which require going back to neutral without getting hit and parrying with a 2 frame window"? I'm not really a 3rd Strike player so I feel uncomfortable making claims, but with what little I know, in theory, it sounds like the mechanic introduced tons of problems, so I can agree. Especially on parries having lots of potential to mess up projectiles. At least there are some projectiles of different speeds which make them harder to react to, and projectiles that have the intended function of attacking in tandem with the user which sort of deals with the problem of not being able to keep out / chipp someone that parries. But anyway, for all we know, the window for BS could be relatively large. It'd still carry the risk of being punished, but it could easily be a lower risk option than SB currently is.
Mitsurugi Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) Kyosuke Kagami, actually SB is supposed to be a 2f-timing, according to the best Western source, which is the DL frame data : http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Defense_%28GGACR%29 "Must perform the SB 2-3F right before an attack hits ". You can widen it a little with kara-SB, the input being different according to your character. EDIT : The window frame might be slightly longer in +R as I recall reading in some posts SB being "easier". Can't verify and can't find the source at the moment. White Man, by stating SB and SFIII-style parry mechanics are easy to "throw out", do you mean their input is too easy or that it is too easy to succeed? While I can understand you don't like them as they bring another kind of gameplay, I find it hard to believe that they are too easy and have as little risk as you claim. If I may ask without sounding too rude, do you actually successfully, consistently and often perform SB against a strong opponent? I am not asking proof, your word will suffice. Besides, SB is one thing, doing the appropriate action afterward is another. Sure by randomly mashing SB you can sometimes get lucky but not only would it be scarce but also you wouldn't have the proper punish/escape action afterwards. It is not fair pretending one thing is easy and not being able to do it. On the other hand, SFIII parries/(blue) blocks are easier than SB but the different yomi make it difficult to always know when to parry and have a 100% rate of success, thus it makes a gameplay on its own, bringing another kind of strategy. This may be what you dislike, if I understood you correctly. Which is a legit point of view. EDIT : it took me too long to write the answer, TheRealBobMan made a good post in the meanwhile. Edited November 1, 2013 by Mitsurugi
excelence Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 I dislike Slashbacks and SFIII-style parrying since they're so easy to throw out and seem to reward guessing more often than they should. Yeah, you leave yourself open to attack if you mistimed it, but it's still a relatively low-risk option that can result in an extremely high reward.... What? ... i didn't play sf3 much, but i'do like the parry system in it that makes the game can be played aggressively unlike SFIV ... and missed a SB is a low risk? ... not trying to be a jerk here, but dude if u missed a slashback sometimes it means u throwing a round or most of the times it will cost a good chunk of your lifebar.
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