[UNIEL] Linne

[NagorbMan]

A kuuga you can combo off of if you dash cancel relatively easily. B Kuuga you can if you dash cancel really early(probably as early as possible) and have the right spacing.

[Fatalis]

Yeah, It's pretty tight to get the dash cancel right, but I finally managed to do it with some consistency now.

[ProfDrJeyu]

What are good mores to end a block string with?

 

I've been using a combination of 236 A/B and not dcing it and 214B but I was wondering if there is something better

[LunaKage]

It really depends. I'll do a non-dash cancelled 236A a lot, since it baits people hitting buttons, and at max range, all meterless DPs will whiff, gotta watch out for invuln supers that bring your opponent forward though, like Merk's EX Fists, and Hyde's EX DP.

 

I'll also cancel into a whiffed 2A or 5A, which puts us at about -2, and good enough space to throw out a 2B or a 2C, if your opponent reacts too slow, you'll score a CH, or they might block high as well, scoring you the low hit.

 

If your opponent throws out lows after you rebeat, you can beat them out with 63214A/B, or even TK A Fireball.

 

Ending a blockstring in the corner with 63214B isn't a bad idea either, since it's an overhead, and safe, but if it's shielded it can be punished, and can be 5A's out of, to it's a great idea to CS or 236C if it's blocked for more pressure, and if it hits, you get a combo if you cancelled it, about 3.5k using each resource. If your opponent likes to mash 5A out of your 63214B, then use the A version, since it frame traps, but save this for when you have meter or vorpal, since if it's blocked it can be punished otherwise, also you can't combo off of it on normal ground hit without those resources.

[Rhiya]

if you watch katou, the basic blockstring is going to be a bunch of spacing traps using rebeat pressure (2b 5c whiff 5a immediate 2c 5c whiff 5a 6c, that kind of thing), tk kuugas, and then mixup when they respect

 

fuse likes using 214a/b a ton, though I don't know if I agree

 

there's also 236b>236c, etc.

[xlolxlolx]

updated the frame data, most of the stuff is 1f faster and 1f less recovery

[bellreisa]

i'll leave this bit here, you guys can play with it

 

gordeau, merkava, and waldstein give linne problems on their wakeup due to having some pretty strong options, but you can use linne FF to maintain momentum or punish

 

vs merkava: the standard answer to wakeup ex noodlearms is shield last hit or green shield 2nd to last to autoshield last, then punish w/5a or 2a. this is fine, but a bit difficult to time, also a starters suck. if you're up to half a chara width away linne can b+c post-superflash and the super will pass through her, allowing a full punish with 2b or 5b starter

 

vs gordeau: generally when gordeau is knocked down w/100%+ you have to look out for ex assimilation vs meaties or ex grim reaper vs jumps/non-meaties. watch for the superflash animation: ex grim has the scythe pulled out. up to a max range of half a chara width, linne b+c will dodge most of ex grim. one of the hits will hit her from behind for about 500 dmg, however gordeau will be in recovery and allow for a full 2b/5b punish. vs ex assimi, you can counter this for free using b+c followup for 1.9k -> cs if you got it. be sure to not try and counter ex grim, you'll get bodied lol. this one is definitely not as free since you need to react to superflash animation

 

vs wald: b+c post-superflash will counter 623c (arms), 624c (suplex), [4]6c (godpress), and 360c (720)

 

you should be able to set up situations where you force opponent respect on wakeup. afaik there are no 0 frame supers? so you can b+c post superflash and counter wakeup DPs, or phase through invincible supers and punish as if they had whiffed on recovery

 

lmk what you guys find!!

 

things i will test later: orie ex dp, veil off

 

EDIT:

 

vs carmine: you can b+c ex grab and punish w/5b on recovery or do followup. you can b+c ex blood fling and IW and punish with 2b

 

to summarize: having the b+c option forces opponent to block on wake because you can beat wakeup ex mash options mostly free. this in turn makes linne offense that much stronger. i was wondering why jp didn't wakeup mash her as often, pretty sure this is the reason. i'm also pretty sure their metagame has already evolved past needing to use the counter and that the threat of it is enough to keep them from pushing buttons

 

this is probably a pretty big shift in how i think about matchups, will play sessions and report back later maybe

[TDVoid]

Some questions from a complete noob who has only started playing fighting games like two weeks ago:

 

Is it possible to connect 63214B>5A on standing opponents? So far I have only been able to get it to combo on crouching targets, and I don't know if that's because it's impossible on standing characters or if I just suck.

Also for the same link, are there any visual cues or something you guys use to make it easier, or is it pretty much pure muscle memory? The big delay between inputs combined with the somewhat tight hitwindow is really ruining my consistency (I get it maybe 40-50% of the time in training mode, less in actual matches). I guess I'll just have to buckle down and grind it out in training mode until I get comfortable with the timing, but if there's any helpful cues that'd be awesome.

As for Kuuga usage, are there any rules on when to use which version? Like, do you switch between A/B version depending on distance to the opponent or similar factors? How about grounded vs aerial vs TK aerial Kuuga - is one of the versions strictly stronger in any of these cases? Why do I even care about small details like this, it's not like they make a difference at my level haha

[NagorbMan]

i'll leave this bit here, you guys can play with it

gordeau, merkava, and waldstein give linne problems on their wakeup due to having some pretty strong options, but you can use linne FF to maintain momentum or punish

vs merkava: the standard answer to wakeup ex noodlearms is shield last hit or green shield 2nd to last to autoshield last, then punish w/5a or 2a. this is fine, but a bit difficult to time, also a starters suck. if you're up to half a chara width away linne can b+c post-superflash and the super will pass through her, allowing a full punish with 2b or 5b starter

vs gordeau: generally when gordeau is knocked down w/100%+ you have to look out for ex assimilation vs meaties or ex grim reaper vs jumps/non-meaties. watch for the superflash animation: ex grim has the scythe pulled out. up to a max range of half a chara width, linne b+c will dodge most of ex grim. one of the hits will hit her from behind for about 500 dmg, however gordeau will be in recovery and allow for a full 2b/5b punish. vs ex assimi, you can counter this for free using b+c followup for 1.9k -> cs if you got it. be sure to not try and counter ex grim, you'll get bodied lol. this one is definitely not as free since you need to react to superflash animation

vs wald: b+c post-superflash will counter 623c, 624c and 360c

you should be able to set up situations where you force opponent respect on wakeup. afaik there are no 0 frame supers? so you can b+c post superflash and counter wakeup DPs, or phase through invincible supers and punish as if they had whiffed on recovery

lmk what you guys find!!

things i will test later: orie ex dp, carmine ex grab, carmine ex blood fling, veil off

Thanks for the info. I have yet to come across any of the top tiers online and I was getting a bit anxious about how to fight them.

As for Kuuga usage, are there any rules on when to use which version? Like, do you switch between A/B version depending on distance to the opponent or similar factors? How about grounded vs aerial vs TK aerial Kuuga - is one of the versions strictly stronger in any of these cases? Why do I even care about small details like this, it's not like they make a difference at my level haha

I use B Kuuga the most because I mess up TK Kuuga an embarassingly high amount of times.

[Rhiya]

As for Kuuga usage, are there any rules on when to use which version? Like, do you switch between A/B version depending on distance to the opponent or similar factors? How about grounded vs aerial vs TK aerial Kuuga - is one of the versions strictly stronger in any of these cases? Why do I even care about small details like this, it's not like they make a difference at my level haha

 

this might sound stupid, but

 

use the one that you think they'll run into, or the one that better covers the space you want covered at the time. that could be any version of it

 

also, your question matters a lot. this game is neutral heavy, and your question is primarily about neutral

 

Thanks for the info. I have yet to come across any of the top tiers online and I was getting a bit anxious about how to fight them.

I use B Kuuga the most because I mess up TK Kuuga an embarassingly high amount of times.

 

in neutral, you can do 412369A/B/C to make the tk easier. it's just something to do with how the game handles inputs

[ZDH513]

Does anyone else recall how to work framedata on training mode i know I saw a video about it somewhere, where a dude had frame data in start up, active frame, and recovery set up i want to use it with Linne to figure out what to counter poke with. Also does anyone know if Linne roll has any invincibility it seems like she can be grabbed right out of it.

[dot_Nova]

Does anyone else recall how to work framedata on training mode i know I saw a video about it somewhere, where a dude had frame data in start up, active frame, and recovery set up i want to use it with Linne to figure out what to counter poke with. Also does anyone know if Linne roll has any invincibility it seems like she can be grabbed right out of it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24P5_lIAYz8&list=FLYlxDzjDIKEntZXI5NKdTXw

 

This video? According to my friend, you need a modded ps3 to run debug mode. And from my experience, Linne's roll has a little invincibility in the middle. I haven't gotten past a grab either.

[ZDH513]

Yea that video oh well thats unfortunate but thanks for the confirmation that roll has little invincibility 

[dot_Nova]

Yea that video oh well thats unfortunate but thanks for the confirmation that roll has little invincibility 

I recommend testing it though. I don't have access to my console yet so I can't sit down and test it myself yet. Not sure if it's just really fast or it actually has invincibility. I mainly use it to make my opponent whiff meaty pokes in neutral or after 214B > B wallbounce.

[dot_Nova]

Noob question, how exactly do you cancel kuuga into roll at the earliest frame? I've been doing 6 A + B > 66 A + B but it extends a bit farther than what I see in match videos.

 

Also is the recovery on roll similar to recovery on dash cancel and do the recoveries after dash cancel/roll after A/B kuuga differ? I remember reading somewhere that recovery on A kuuga is less than the B version's so does that also mean you can cancel into the rolls and dashes earlier to make it safer to continue pressure after an A kuuga dash cancel?

 

Sorry if you all covered this already in the thread. Might have missed it by mistake.

[Pnoth]

Ok so ive been playing Linne for a week or so. First of all, im pretty sure 2A is not a low, which would make 5A better to use in combos because of its extended range and use 2A to whiff cancel. So as high/low mixups, you should start your lows with 2b.

 

If you are midscreen, 63214B will most likley go over the opponent and land you a punish so be carefull with that mid screen unless yo are sure about the spacing. But if you hit 63214B in the corner, im not sure if you can normal combo off it but you can easily CS to get around 4k damage if you do  63214B>CS>5B>5C>2C>214B~A> j.B>j.6B>j.C>j.2B>2C>6CCC after this you can either do high/low mixups with assult or your double jumps faking over heads or hitting a double overhead or you can follow the 6CCC with 236C for more damage and then do mixup of go for B+C>a/b/c for about 1-00 more damage. Witht eh B+C its about 4.2k dmg. 

 

If you are midscreen, a good mixup is to end your combo after 6CCC with 236C which will make them air tech and from there you can read were they will tech and try to go for cross-unders or fake cross-unders after cross-under/fake cross-under you should do assult or 2B to do high/low mixup. Keep in mind that with fake cross-under assults you can easily be dped if they read it correctly. You can also grab or bait dp besides high/low.

 

I think air kuuga has a little bit if invincibility because ive been using it when a hyde does an anti-air dp on me and it always seems to go through me but the kuuga sometimes hits the hyde so thats pretty cool .

 

Thats all i can remember right now, ill keep updating with new tech. 

[Rhiya]

you use 2a because it's a better poke and you get better adv from whiff 5a than whiff 2a

 

i'm not gonna even bother with the rest of the post

 

it's like you didn't read anything in the topic before posting

[NagorbMan]

For what it's worth you can also rapid fire 2a for easier confirms.

[ProfDrJeyu]

That B+C tech seems like it is really good, just the threat of being able to blow up supers on reaction seems like it would force respect which would make linne stronger.

 

Does anyone know how long it is invincible and how fast it starts up?

 

I've been trying to find a good use for it for a while now and it is pretty sub par as a wake up option and unless I get a read on my opponent I am just wasting my GRD.

[Pnoth]

you use 2a because it's a better poke and you get better adv from whiff 5a than whiff 2a

obviously us 2A in neutral game because its faster, i meant use 2B on setups and try to make it meaty. I dont actually know if this works, im just saying that it seems its would lead to more high/low mixup options

[Essay]

[informative things on B+C vs. wakeup]

Great post.  I've been reaction-DP'ing what I can after the super flash and CS'ing into full combos, but this helps round that out.  I figure stuff like point-blank Merkava EX arms might still be better better punished with DP if you're worried about it crossing-through B+C and escaping our punish-range, but the two together seem to cover a lot of bases.

 

you use 2a because it's a better poke and you get better adv from whiff 5a than whiff 2a

obviously us 2A in neutral game because its faster, i meant use 2B on setups and try to make it meaty. I dont actually know if this works, im just saying that it seems its would lead to more high/low mixup options

According to our frame data, aren't they the same start up, but with 5A having the better hitbox for poking?  Unless I want a mashable move, I feel like the trade off of 1 frame recovery on potential reverse beats can be worth the extra 20% horizontal range for space-control.  I'm not finding anything in this game that 5A's hitbox wiffs over, and only a few things 2A's hurtbox ducks under, so it's worth considering.

[LunaKage]

Some questions from a complete noob who has only started playing fighting games like two weeks ago:

 

Is it possible to connect 63214B>5A on standing opponents? So far I have only been able to get it to combo on crouching targets, and I don't know if that's because it's impossible on standing characters or if I just suck.

Also for the same link, are there any visual cues or something you guys use to make it easier, or is it pretty much pure muscle memory? The big delay between inputs combined with the somewhat tight hitwindow is really ruining my consistency (I get it maybe 40-50% of the time in training mode, less in actual matches). I guess I'll just have to buckle down and grind it out in training mode until I get comfortable with the timing, but if there's any helpful cues that'd be awesome.

As for Kuuga usage, are there any rules on when to use which version? Like, do you switch between A/B version depending on distance to the opponent or similar factors? How about grounded vs aerial vs TK aerial Kuuga - is one of the versions strictly stronger in any of these cases? Why do I even care about small details like this, it's not like they make a difference at my level haha

No it's not possible to link 63214B > 5A on standing opponents. Personally I always use Chain Shift or 236C after using 63214B no matter what, that way I get a free combo if it hit, and free pressure if it was blocked. I don't really consider it super worth it to do it without resources.

[Rhiya]

Great post.  I've been reaction-DP'ing what I can after the super flash and CS'ing into full combos, but this helps round that out.  I figure stuff like point-blank Merkava EX arms might still be better better punished with DP if you're worried about it crossing-through B+C and escaping our punish-range, but the two together seem to cover a lot of bases.

 

According to our frame data, aren't they the same start up, but with 5A having the better hitbox for poking?  Unless I want a mashable move, I feel like the trade off of 1 frame recovery on potential reverse beats can be worth the extra 20% horizontal range for space-control.  I'm not finding anything in this game that 5A's hitbox wiffs over, and only a few things 2A's hurtbox ducks under, so it's worth considering.

 

easier to confirm hit or block with 2a; range difference not that significant; in case of block, leaves 5a open to rebeat, and mashing 2a opens up more ambiguous pressure options on block than leading with 5a; 1f difference is pretty big for what can/can't mash you out

 

like, if you're choosing to 5a over throwing out 2b, you're probably at a range where 2a will hit anyways

 

also, 5b whiffs after 5a at max range

[Essay]

easier to confirm hit or block with 2a; range difference not that significant; in case of block, leaves 5a open to rebeat, and mashing 2a opens up more ambiguous pressure options on block than leading with 5a; 1f difference is pretty big for what can/can't mash you out

 

like, if you're choosing to 5a over throwing out 2b, you're probably at a range where 2a will hit anyways

 

also, 5b whiffs after 5a at max range

I definitely see where you're coming from, and I'm definitely not saying we should abandon 2A or anything, but I find I really do notice the extra range.  At distances where an stationary 2B and a dash 2A will just wiff, dashing the same distance and 5A'ing will hit at just the tip.  To hit with the tip of a dashing 2A, you're introducing a bigger gap in your approach.  

 

I'd just think of it as a matter of losing a frame or two early on, versus losing a frame later, and then mix up between the two (and everything else) to keep things fresh.

[xlolxlolx]

it's really up to you whether you want to use 2a or 5a for approaches, but 2a's got the benefit of being able to cancel into itself which is usually what you'd want

 

personally i think 5a is better for frame traps, tick throws and catching people hitting buttons since there's not really any low profiling under ground moves in this game

 

also 214b~a seems pretty good at keeping them honest when tossed in the bag with stuff like 5c 5a whiff, ground fireball and etc