Myoro

That move looks quicker, subtler, and longer range than Litchi's 6A, which is like the godliest overhead I know. I can see the rapid shinanigans a brewin' right now, both into and out of this move. Jin and Kagura still use their overheads despite not being cancelable. This one looks better than those two combined on start-up so it should ether follow suit or have a P2 of like... 5. Also, ether that Ragna isn't teching or that move has godlike untech too. Even if it's everything I think it is, it's not the end of the world. It's not CP1.0 valk's mix-up. I can endure it.

The heck? That's a insanely quick and subtle start-up into a overhead, followed by a low in like 5 frames. If that's not punishable I'll have to destroy something dear to someone.

Quell your fury swordsman, in the corner you step on their back area, where Celica is currently located. Also there's a very promising Relius astral on the horizon.

Implying they left in the first place. I doubt it'll be as bad though. DPs better have a little thing called recovery Also , ether a moves being left out of her midscreen Bnb or they really did nerf her damage. I hope for the latter.

Someone awesome should make sure there's a recording of this since I'm off the grid this Saturday-Sunday. I'll be incredisad if I miss anything super neat. Let's all join hands and pray for no more rebroadcasted Celica and Lambda footage/info.

Sorry ol' chaps, not gettin' my PS3 functional again 'till tomorrow. Really burns me up because Necro's at work again making brilliant things and I wanna make cool stuff too. '3' On top of that my web's been weird this past week. Knowing you, you'd prolly tear your hair out playing me as it is now. If it gets better I'll give ya a heads up!

Even then, 2.1 will be just around the corner. '3' There's always hope.

Things Myoro noticed. Haku has a new ink-like graphic on his 623A~A. Wonder if 41236C and j.214C will get inked... OD Vinum is glimpsed, might have hitbox buff. Excitement intensifies. Gearing up to do the buffs equivalent of a snow dance. Izzy did her drop move (j.236C~D?) into her 236B/236C follow-up. They keep giving her combo tech, which isn't really what she needs to be a solid character is it? Litchi's staff looks quicker. Seems like it's gonna be a nerf to pressure IMO. C Bug still crushes guard and dreams. Save that barrier fellas. Tager still has that weird drag on 6A. Looks to be edging out Terumi for his stomp monopoly. Az can still do 214B catch projectile>Immediate 236B. Henceforth will be known as the "Hot Potato" Kokonoe was dropped from the cast Ridley will be playable Edit: Carl's OD 632146C looks to be 3 spikey gears that cover about the same range. Arakune's OD Bees have spiked abdomens which clearly indicates more suffering. Edit Edit: I could be a very delusional Myoro, but it looks like Ignis follows more closely behind us and 214B could be faster. I'm prolly wrong about the range thing, though strangely enough, the gears look no different than normal.

Balance. One of the many facets of gameplay, which I understand to be half of what is discussed here if the topic name is any indicator. '~' More specifically some people take issue with the dev's balance decisions, whereas others of us are pretty okay with them because as seemingly random as they are, they seem to be working for the better recently. Discussion of the difference of opinion ensues. Also BB's progression from EX to CP1 to CP1.1, and the mystery that is CP2.0. *Wink wink* *nudge nudge* :D

I disagree, the balance was way worse in CT where we only had upwards of eight characters to deal with. If anything CP is prolly the best edition so far and it's crawling up the shitter like some kinda sewer dweller. There are things I miss from Extend, but I wouldn't go back there if someone payed me. Not enough game speed. I need my game speed mane. No one's denying that Dissidia was a bad game in terms of balance and game mechanics. But then again I could list ten worse than that, and then ten worse than each of those. My exposure to the very depths of kusoge is what lets me appreciate BB as much as I do. I agree up until the last paragraph. I think adding new characters can be a problem if not addressed. When adding 7 new characters to the cast, a dev should make sure they're capable of something the others aren't, that it factors in heavily enough to where it can be called their uniqueness, and that that uniqueness is what gives them their edge. Personally I think the most unique character of the added 7 in CP is Amane. Bullet, Izayoi, Koko, and Kags remind me of bootleg versions of Tsubaki, Arakune, Rachel, and Noel respectively. Celeca looks like she could be the epitome of the problem, her gimmick is she hits stuff... and they take damage. On the point of adding new characters, new characters are exiting, and if a game was made featuring only the cast from the last game, people'd want a refund.

You know if you could quit, you would have done it by now. Face the truth, we're all tsundere for this game. It's why we keep coming back.

Extend seemed pretty alright. Not too many MUs went so far tilted as 7:3. CP they added a couple new mechanics and completely overhauled the Combo system, favoring time based combos instead of proration based ones. They also added 7 characters and rehashed the existing ones. For all of that CP1.0 remained pretty well balanced. Even vs Koko, the most notable balance error we've had in a while, everyone could still win, which is more than a lot of other games can say when talking about high tiers. While 1.1 did make some questionable decisions (Makoto and Tager nerfs, Azrael Buffs) The tiers certainly did get closer, showing they do have a sense of how to balance a game. I have renewed faith in their competence because it looks like they nerfed the living daylights out of ODraid's recovery and time in the next edition. We'll have to see where they take it.

Considering the Marvel vs Capcoms of the world, I think Arc does one heck of a job with balance. It's just not that bad guys.

5B>6D>663C>jump+6D>j.B>2C>6C>41236B>3C gives you three opportunities for astral and only costs 2600IG After 2C 6C or 41236B>3C (The first 3C has Ignis recovering, but if you did 665B>3C>astral it might work) It's especially easy after 6C or 41236B>3C Really you can't expect to have full Ignis and meter at match point and opponent less than 35% HP, so the less Ignis you use in an astral combo the better. Also in a combo specifically meant for astralling you want LOW damage, because you will have had to start the combo when the opponent was at 35% HP or less, and like pokemon, you don't wan't to KO them before you capture them. It's a game of can I confirm into airhit 2C, 6C, 3C, or corner 4D before I kill them. As a useful trick you can 236D+jC reset then 5B>5C to cover Ignis' recovery and 3C>214214D. This maneuver does approximately 2K before the astral meaning that the opponent still must have a good chunk of health. 4D Reset into astral is another fine option as 4D>3C does a little over 1K Of course the most optimal confirms into astral are raw 6C, air CH5B, air CH5C(1), raw Air or fatal hit 2C, or 3C into astral. I however opt to just do RAW ASTRAL. Think about it, it's arguably the game's best DP in terms of range and recovery, it doesn't cost any Ignis, it tanks hits and sticks the opponent to Ignis, and you don't have to worry about pre-mature kills.

Who doesn't want Ignis? Also, I was wondering if any Relius players 'sides me had anything to say on the matter of "Doll Zoning" and "Use of 22X in neutral" For doll zoning, I usually will IAD backwords and do j.2D to snag any chasers. The combination of air backdashing and j.2D puts Ignis about half a screen ahead of you, which makes any 4D 6D 2D j.XD or Tus you use almost a sure hit. The whole maneuver places you a safe distance away, yet in range to follow-up a tus hit or pressure, and generally only costs 25% of the IG gauge. Fun fact: when Tus(3rd hit) hits at a ground level no matter how high up the opponent is or who the opponent is, 2C will connect. For me this is Ignis zoning, 214B requires not only a respectful opponent, but one afraid of jumping. 6D hardly moves Ignis. 214A is too expensive, obvious, situational, and slow to recover to be used when you know it won't hit. So what do you all do? On the matter of 22A/B/C. I'm confused on what we're trying to accomplish here. When using it to protect Ignis, I can't help but remember that it has all the same stats as 5B and that for those billion frames I'm using it on the chance that it might work, I could be rushing in past any kind of neutral for a solo combo that will fully restore Ignis and do a pretty penny more damage. Usage of 22B/C seems just wrong considering our goal of rushing down the opponent. For the situational time waster or long range punish or zoning tool shut-down, it's fine. Is there even a reason to use 22A outside of Duo Bios combos since we have 41236B>3C?

So I came up with a tricky reset. During a grounded 6D if you Rapid between hit 5 and 6 (right before the kick) you will jump over a crouching opponent and if you immediately j.B it'll cross them up and overhead them on crouching, also leaving you in place to do j.B>5B>5C>5D>6B>6D>236D on a successful attempt this will net you a good bit of meter back too. If they block high you still get pressure when you land. It even crosses up in the corner.

I believe so, but I don't know for certain. I think canceling just removes the recovery of whatever is being canceled, and in the case of anythin' but Rapid replaces it with the start-up of whatever it's being canceled into. What I do know is that (6B>Jump cancel>tkj.236C) seems to be just as fast as (6B>Rapid>jump>tkj.236C)

Well if a move has 18+ recovery, then we can target it. Getting clipped by actives is dangerous, but if we time it right, it won't be a problem. We just need to be able to time the exact end of the opponent's actives. 236A+6D still let's us punish almost 20 frames earlier than 236A>5B, for 3000+ damage. That's pretty dang miraculous even though it's a little situational ATM. However if we flesh out the situations it can be used, and work to solve the situations it can't then our defense becomes that much stronger. The things I want to try are "IB a move>236A>5B" and "IB move>236A+6D>665B" during enemy blockstrings and "2366A+6D/2366A>5B" to punish rush and retreat attacks. I'm curious to know how many Ley oppertunities open up for instant blockers and dash-ley-ers.

For some reason I remember Ragoo being able to dash cancel DS on whiff. So I'll double check that. Leave it to RYO to forsake anti-airing completely. I need 2 see that vid. The problem is what happens when we don't have Iggy for 236A+6D. On that note 6D should be able to punish anything with 18+ recovery. However things with 13~17 recovery can be put in pressure with 6D. To combo from 6D with 5B after ley, I suppose 6D will have to hit them on frame 27 or later, which means you can only press 6D on frame 9 of Ley or later. (Assuming I understand frame data correctly) If 6D will counter-hit then it can hit on frame 23 of ley or later, so we can use it on frame 5 of led ley or later. As a standard for situations to 236A+6D, look for moves that have 18+N recovery, where the N is equal to every frame under the 9th frame of ley that the opponent's move's actives ended. Does that make sense? EDIT: Furthermore, to make sure that you have the 9+ frames needed to make it so you can recover from ley in time to combo, you need to ether use ley in neutral or use ley during a 9-N frame gap in the opponent's pressure, where N equals every recovery frame they have above 18 recovery frames. There's also other circumstances to consider. 236A+6D on projectiles: We don't have to consider the effect it'll have on Ignis, meaning we can use the 6D part whenever we feel is necessary (Which will be however long it takes into ley to go get 5B to combo from 6D. We do however need to take into account that Ignis can extend the actives and get Relius hit (Especially true if the projectile is multi-hitting or like Litchi's j.D, which keeps its hitbox even after hitting Ignis.) 236A+6D on invincible/projectile invincible/guard point moves: Simply this has us moving 6D's actives to the frame where the guard point or super-armor or whatever ends or later. 236A+6D vs whiff cancel moves: If the start-up on whatever it whiff cancels into is 18 frames or greater and without invincibility, then you can 6D it if you time it right. If not than you're screwed unless 2D can come out before ley ends and you use that instead. 236A+6D vs moves that leave the opponent airborne: Not so certain what to do here. We have 14 frames of hitstun off of this, which moves the foe up and away. 26 on counter. It's gonna be hard to confirm into 5B 6B or 2C. on counterhit you may be able to finagle it... 236A+6D vs moves that rush and moves that retreat: The opponent's move can't leave them out of 6D's range. If they are inside Relius or too far away, then 6D won't work. Dash ley could be an interesting counter to both scenarios. If the opponent would end up inside Relius, dash ley would push them you forward making Ignis go in front of you which is far enough away to punish the would be safe assault. Like-wise Dashley could put other moves back into punish range.

It may have to do heavily with what comes before and after DS, but I think his jab will still beat yours, but a lot can be said for denying him 500 HP regen. He also might get scared and DP, who knows. I think it needs more testing. I think it will work on 6D cuz he won't be able to cancel 6D, but again, you'd have to test it.

Well I can make a kind of formula. Ley is invulnerable for 31 frames and "recovers" for 4 frames making it a 35 frame total move. Our punishes out of ley will be 5A 5B and 3C ideally, which are active on frame 7, 9, and 10 respectively. So we want moves with 12+ recovery for jabs, 14+ recovery for 5B, and 15+ recovery for 3C. Now those are the bare minimum we can punish but that requires that Ley must stop being invincible the frame after their actives disappear, which is hard as it is risky. So long as the move has 36+ frames and has 5+ frames of recovery if we can time it right we can still end up as if we were plus on block, however slightly. Now let's take a trip from the ideal to the real. Your average reaction speed is not under 1/60th of a second. In fact we get bodied by 26 frame start-up overheads. Logically speaking, Ley will only get punishes on prediction or 60+ frame normals/supers/DPs. Also we can't really expect ourselves to nail a 1 frame gap between our opponents actives and ley's recovery, especially in the heat of battle, so we're gonna want to target moves with a lengthier recovery. Furthermore, it must not be whiff cancelable in any way that could harm you. Inferno divider is a prime example of a target. It is 60+ frames, can be predicted, has a wealth of recovery, and places the opponent next to you for any punish you please. Inferno divider must be predicted as a habit, however there are easier ways to predict moves, like if a move is used in a blockstring and is normally safe if it gets canceled in some way on block or hit. Kagura comes to mind. Kag's 5D~A is often used to make moves safe as it can be backdash canceled to safety on block, but can be 5B punished if ley'd. Kag's 5D~A is also easily predicted because it is preceded by his 5D stance. Other examples are Haku's specials which can be rekka'd on block for safety, or Tao's 6C which is big trouble on whiff and super predictable. Teru's 6C which is at times rapided for further pressure/mix-up can be dodged for absolute punish too. Now there are also some moves that break even when you ley them, or will give the opponent advantage yet still allow you to block. At times it is advantageous to dodge these. Leying a meatied overhead won't often put you ahead, but it will make it so you don't have to block high or withstand the rapid mix-up they have planned. Same is true for dodging Resource gain drives in blockstrings. May not get you punishes, but dodging Izayoi's 236B still loses her one potential stock. Consider your opponent's habits in neutral and blockstrings and their frame data then formulate a modus operandi. I may also add that if the opponent is coming in from the air using a normal without landing recovery, and you ley, you can still come out on top so long as you recover from ley at least one frame before they touch the ground (Potentially after then if they were expecting you to be in some very long hitstun.)

Ah. Thanks guyz!

r-right. I'd say that's a pretty accurate account of the state of things. With commitment comes risk, but if you're certain it will work, then it's fantastic. Amane's j.B isn't legit?? Seems pretty fantastic to me, although, I have little to no Amane EXP.

Hawawa. Anyone 100% certain on what's going on here? Also which chart is the before and after? Japanese stuff being read backwards in general has me clueless to what it all means. What sorts of minor bug fixes? 1.1 was the patch that changed 41236B to ground bounce right? What changes are associated with 1.11?

Now, see here, everywhere I go, that patch is referred to as 1.1. So you can understand my confusion right?