Osuna

I have no idea what this is supposed to tell us.

I'm also noticing several whiffed 5B's on aerial opponents. Does not seem like a worthwhile venture to me to try and anti air with 5B. Also you landed a throw by the corner and then went for mid screen gadget rapid instead, which could be a preference thing, but I'd certainly at least question it a little.

5B had a better hitbox Before recieving any new buffs. Damage isn't tied to level Exaclty either. 2B would also be way more plus on block without any nerfs. The proration/damage difference only for me would be a big difference. I would also prefer 2B for oki.

CH 5A > 2C > AC > J.C > J.B > 5C > AC > Ender 2062:24 CH 5A > 5C > 6A > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Ender 1717:23 CH 5A > 5C > SB > AC > 6B > 2C > AC > 4D > 22D 2156:35 Air CH 5A > 5C/2C > AC > J.C > J.B > 5C > AC > Ender 2032:24/2062:24 Air CH 5A > 6A > AC > J.C > J.B > 5C > AC > Ender 1922:23 (Notable in that 5A 6A is a string people do) Also a note I forgot in the last post I totally never remember who all is hit by the J.C J.B 5C thing, so if someone could chime in on that to save me a a little time it would be much appreciated. Also what do people think of CH 5A>5C>6A>2Cxx623C,J.C,J.B,5C(>6A?)xxAC, SB. It gets 2192 and 36 Heat and spends spark essentially for Mag and Oki, but there's a certain charm to the oki and no other way to get mag on this combo path without losing chunks of meter and damage. I'm really on the border on how plausible it is. EDIT: I was counting on someone to ninja my double post so that I didn't just keep editing a forgotten post. All magnetized heat values are approximate since heat is a little weird and I have to hit them to mag them Edit edit: Just checking out Tagertime's new stuff and a few things that popped out at me. CH 2D rapid combos CH 2D RC 5C>6A>2Cxx623C,J.D,J.2C,2B>2Cxx623C,236B,22D builds 33 meter and works at least on lambda if you Rapid into 5C very quickly CH 2D RC 5C>6A>3C,2B>2Cxx623C,J.D,J.2C,2B>2Cxx623C,4D,22D builds 33 (versus 30) does 4028 (vs 3956) when compared to his distance alternative. I would like to suggest waiting before copying and pasting anything from that list. There's a lot to go through all over the place and my sister had stolen the TV from me earlier so I'm behind already.

There is still the important and valuable difference in their proration values if they stay and their very different hitboxes, their start ups, the things they do and don't gatling into, damage values.

I'm fine with post what you find, it puts our stuff under more scrutiny. My values don't count enders, I hope to have a little guide with relative damages and exact heat gain for enders. * 5A > 5B > 3C > GF 613:11 * 5A > 2B > 5B > 3C > GF 741:13 * 5A > 5B/2B > 3C > 5B > 4D 749:11 * 5A > 2B > 5B > 3C > 5B > 4D 851:13 * 5A > 5B/2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > AC > Ender 1485:19/1557:19 * 5A > 5B > SB > 5C/2C > AC >Ender 1440:17/1460:18 * 5A > 5B > SB > AC > AC whiff > 6B > AC > 4D >22D 1817:29 * 5A > 5B > 3C > 5C > 6A > AC > Ender 1493:19 (RC/TG only) * 5A > 2B > 5B > 3C > 5C > 6A > AC > Ender 1513:21 (RC/TG only) * 5A > 2B > 2C > AC > AC whiff > 6B > 2C > Ender 2252:39 Those 6B fatals inspired this normal 6B idea 6B>5DxxSB,2Cxx623C,623C,6Bxx623C,4D,22D Damage 2840 Heat 39, Works at all distances on all characters with no mag, Uses spark bolt. * 5A > 2B > 3C > 5C (/2C?) > AC > J.C > J.B > 5C > AC > SB > 22D worked once I Swear, on Rachel for 40 meter and something like 2.2k, but I can't seem to replicate it so I may have hallucinated it. Also does anyone ever mix up their 4D 22D enders with something else? If so I could make a chart of different ender tiers and label combos with stuff like Ender level 1 or something.

For the record my hair does not always look like that when I wake up, that was the record and there's a long story behind it. Another loketest, 5B level increase was a pretty big deal, I'm kinda excited to see what they try next.

I'm going to propose that one is inefficient except at max distance because the spark nets like 300 damage and the combo already self mags. If you absolutely needed just a little more to kill them, earlier combos ending in spark MTW do more damage.

I am a pad player and...I don't have a wired ps3 controller, nor do I want to play with any of the 6 button layout fight pads. Am I just screwed from the get go? I mean I could tough it out with stick but that is a major disadvantage for me. I've always been good about turning off my controller and properly syncing. I even bring my own cable, so I don't have to inconvenience anyone. But like... I don't really have a work around for this one that doesn't give me a big disadvantage.

The last 6B combo lacks numbers.

All I remember is eating a lot of dog food on the rpg side.

I have a free pass to kumoricon, and I don't have a free pass to pax. soo I'll be going to kumoricon.

There's actually an even better photo, but I just downloaded it so I don't know if it is hosted it anywhere. I forget who took it. I was kinda out of it at the time the photos were taken. But I don't mind posting it.

My bed head is pretty top tier. That photo should be submitted for some sort of record. I don't know what for, but it deserves something. In a related note, I love you guys.

You can keep going if you'd like I appreciate the volunteer work, new stuff would be greatly appreciated aw well. I don't think the list has the 360B 2B 623Cx2 6B/2C 623C 4D 22D yet, so who knows what else is missing. I'd certainly love our stuff to reach a new level before CS2+ gets any closer.

I've been kinda sick and distracted today. I actually had to cancel some plans I had made to go out. I'll be glad to do the tedious combo damage stuff, if someone else wouldn't mind restructuring the various throw follow ups. Preferably with notes on the optimal ones for certain characters and specific uses, and make sure all of them have a function that isn't done better by another combo. Throws are a pretty static situation, so given sufficient execution the answers should be pretty objective. The damage values would be helpful especially for the things that work after 360A and B. Then I'll go through the regular combos and write down damage values tomorrow unless someone beats me to it. My notation looks all goofy in that post, I get the feeling I should have just used the >'s like Tagertime. Edit: Also I only ever land 2D's from pretty far away. Outside of combos of course. What situations do you guys throw them out at?

GF does indeed take a deceptively long time. 5C Gadget whiff does not produce any advantage, but because of the GF cancel things happen in rapid succession making it look impressive, fast and confusing. Unless it changed from CS1 or something. It's not hard to test.

Thus proving the PNW has the nicest people Ever.

Yes you can cancel active frames and +/- in the frame data assumes you are hitting with the first active frame. Quite a lot of stuff would not work if you could not. 5C 6A is legit, and TagerTime loves it. Just to sum up a few things for the convenience of others.

I'll give you all the hard stuff my messed up hands might suck at then. *Thumbs up* I'll come up with a list tomorrow, if ya'll don't mind the wait.

Sweet, what times are you guys most available, especially orion who shares a time zone with me.

Point number one, Asledge whenever seen or expected ought to be instant blocked as part of the option select. Assuming they have no reversal, and have missed the instant block, which is plausible enough I think, you have spent 50 meter to break 1 primer. Point 2 Ragna's 6B is 4 frames faster than 6C and his 6B is not well known for being difficult to block or stuff. That's slow. There is no argument to be made there. That is slow. That leaves a 10 frame gap, which has 2 digits you may note. Even a reversaless person who did not IB, would likely have ~22 frames to recognize the animation and press the A button, which is plenty plausible unless they are surprised, which isn't fair to assume. Options are good, but it would certainly be a waste of time to spend 50 meter and a spark bolt to land a 360B, when the set up could only be done in situations where you could have landed a 360B. Admittedly the 6B might hit and get you some meter for very little damage, but you already have close to 50 for your string And spark bolt, so at least for me, it would not be a preferable situation. 360B is also unreactionably fast unlike 6B. That's my personal preference there. Point 3. My beef with the resource intensive nature of purposefully going for a guard break is that there are no Safe ways to break more than 2 primers and to have a clear shot at a break you need to be able to break 4 if they have a full barrier gauge, which they should because they are fighting Tager. It is a high risk move that can only be done when you're in good shape, it's just bad management. Point 4, The IB range is is pretty lenient, and you'd have to wait for the hit stop to go away before you could delay it, which is telling. You can try to do stuff, but if they botch the OS they will still block the Asledge often because of how slow Bsledge is and how much time they have to hit 5A, if they botch it really bad they get hit by the asledge for a very sad combo. Asledge is dangerous in block strings, for Tager that is. If you want to get technical Asledge is slow enough that a human looking for sledge start up could realistically go for an IB on reaction and still punish if it was a Bsledge. Point 5, The two things you're using to bait them, are slow and really really slow. Seriously, It would work for a little while as a mix up until a reasonable person stopped getting surprised. I suppose you could rapid walk up and do a low throw, but with how long the overhead or the Bsledge (Why would you even think of Bsledge?) takes it'll be hard to confuse it for anything else. Dacid, I appreciate you putting thought into Tager and stirring discussion, but a whole lot of the things you state about Tager should have been asked about Tager instead. You have shown a couple of times that you don't yet know his move properties, but you keep telling us stuff you've derived from those properties you don't know. You confidently and excitedly tell people, perhaps people new to Tager, how they should play him. You tell them frame data, and properties, and strategies that you have undeserved confidence in. That is harmful, and I expect better from you. You even used the word "Guaranteed", when talking about a 4 primer string that broke 3 primers and had multiple gaps. Tager's guard break changes were discussed at length when they were first announced and many people spent a lot of meter and spark making them work online and casually, but when you take them further or even just extrapolate to the logical conclusion it is a weak strategy. A gimmick. I'd be happy to see you come up with something solid, but a lot of people tried and got no where meaningful. There's actually better guard break strings than the one we're currently tweaking but they're also not that great. For the first time ever I'm mad at you. So I'm sorry if this came out rough.

Ok, I'll give the list a once over, maybe test a few things, other people should also feel encouraged to submit corrections. We should at least delete the 6B fatal that's in the first post before anything gets put together though. It's not a combo and I've been saying so for months, and some poor guy couldn't figure out why it wasn't working for him. It's really embarrassing that it's still there. You could replace it with FC 6B>5Dxx236A,2A>2Cxx623C,J.D,J.2C,2B>2Cxx623C,4D,22D and maybe the FC 6B>5Dxx236A,2A>5C>6A>2Cxx623C,J.D,J2C,2B>2Cxx623C,SB,MTW,22D. It doesn't really do that much more damage, but t is more and it builds the meter and works from a little farther away. Not that these combos will see that much action either way, but I'd be much happier putting real combos in that spot. Actually, I'm gonna have a lot of time in a couple of days, anyone want to team up with me and go over the entire list to check for mistakes or obsolescence? Also to fill in any unfilled damage numbers. It'd probably go a lot faster splitting the load.

The 360 combo section and the 6B FC section Still have misinformation in them and they Have inconvienanced people and the editing required is very small and I've been bringing it up periodically for a long time now. Do you need more specific information? Should I pm the exact changes so that it's easier to reference? Is that's what's going on?

No offense dacid, but what the hell? What kind of insane scub, what kind of Character could be forced to block all of those insanely slow moves with big gaps between them even with the RC? Also 6B doesn't break primer, it was too plausible I guess. And this all requires an opponent next to you, blocking after a burst, which isn't particularly easy to get and that Insanely Bad string you suggested that breaks 3 primers Won't break them post burst if they just barrier the last one. And you've just spent 50 meter and spark. That's assuming they can't/don't do anything in the sledge gap on reaction or in the huge 6C gap, and they can't react to our slow overhead, but somehow block it anyway. In this situation you could have just 360B'd for over 5k, but even aside from that it's bad. You'd need to hold a lot of advantage to Try it (Meter, spark they have to burst and not have much meter, and for some reason afraid to reversal the obvious gaps or just avoid the first overhead), and then it eliminates most of it with no guaranteed returns. Asledge Bsledge, is not a mix up, you can and should option select it. There's a huge gaps between what you have to do for both. Ragna can even option select you Not following up Without IB if you're close enough to be ID'ed. IB doesn't stop them from getting crushed, or give you any particular opportunity to throw in the mentioned string without a rapid. The correct mix up is to throw them out of barrier because they can't jump. And rapiding to 6C which should be punishe not IB because of how slow it is, and mixing it up with Bsledge which is even slower is horrible. Walk forward throw is a maybe, but again your entire mix up is beaten by them attacking you instead of taking the whole thing for some reason. The mix up potential isn't optimal, and is very expensive. The string is vulnerable from start to finish and at any point going for the suggested mix ups is pretty rough.