zeth07

Lol you're crazy. While I appreciate that, I do not play enough to be on all those other people's level. Everybody on LK's list and the people I nominated play the fuck out of the game and body me. Thanks though. EDIT: And I don't have Extend.

Where are you reading this? The forums Regional Matchmaking has it by like Atlantic North, Atlantic South, etc. Nonetheless them calling certain states "East Coast", but having others called "South East" is kinda silly, now if it was "North East" and "South East" that makes sense. Isn't kidviper in TX? That's not EC....

You know, there's really nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same thing for either 360 or whatever region they feel like. It's not like he has any obligation to do anything for anyone else considering the circumstances. How's Florida not EC..........lol? It's fucking Florida.

-Raiza57 -tempestdahlia / howling-_-moon I don't know if either of them even have Extend though...

I kinda mentioned it on the front page, but that pool is stupid. And this was before Xie mentioned that Dora said the other player was probably a Taokaka as well. If someone was to make the worst possible pool for a Bang player, that would look somewhat like it. I'm mad at that pool and I ain't even playing in it, lol.

*5A>5B>2B>6C>j.D>Web Nail>Web Nail>d.6D>j.D>Web Nail>5D = [1,919] / 4 Seals *Throw>Air Dash>j.4C>Web Nail>6D>j.D>Web Nail>j.D>Web Nail>5D As for whether they work on Lambda, I have no idea since I don't have CSE. I would assume so since she doesn't seem to be one of the ones with a messed up hitbox like a few others.

Pretty much this.

As long as you don't get mad at people when they critique you and actually take people's advice and put it into motion, then I'm sure people will help. The other thing would be to not make random excuses for why you did something after people critique you for whatever that may be. I just feel like sometimes people like to waste your time with this kinda stuff when you're trying to help them and they don't listen to a word you say. But hopefully you aren't one of those people, lol.

It's funny because originally I was going to make a post saying quite the opposite that Bang's neutral viability is not as good as it says based on how good other characters (Litchi / Rachel at least) are at neutral. This is again the case of me seeing how one character is ranked and comparing them to Bang, in my case I was looking at Litchi being A- and Rachel being A as well. I feel like both of those characters are much better at Neutral than Bang, so I felt like Bang should have actually been rated lower than them. To me being good at neutral means various things, being able to control parts of the screen, being able to dictate the pace of the match, and being able limit your opponents options. I feel like Rachel and Litchi are incredibly strong in this department, while Bang on the other hand is really only about getting up close to the opponent and trying to hit them/put them in a blockstring. Bang's nails imo are very lacking or can be avoided or disrespected too much, again compared to Litchi's and Rachel's options. If anything they at least allow him to get closer to the opponent but considering they are a limited resource you have to be cautious in how you use them. I also think that BB's tech system severely hurts Bang's playstyle, because even if he gets a knockdown it isn't a good hard knockdown like GG that lets him get a real oki situation. Compared to other characters that can practically force people to neutral tech+block and not roll at all, Bang as a mixup character has nothing like that. This imo is something I feel that Bang is lacking in his gameplay. In general I feel like the characters can separated into 2 groups in how they get to control the game as a whole. The first group gets to be in almost complete control with no real limits and the opponent has to play to their tune, while the other group is more or less "just trying to hit the opponent". Outside of how much damage a character does, you can pretty much tell who the "strong" characters are just within the game system. With that said, I feel that characters like Litchi, Rachel, Jin, and Carl are being underestimated in some categories due to the nature of the game and their playstyle and tools. As an example, if you look at Litchi and Relius by comparison, and really watch how they play, the function of Litchi's staff and Relius' control of Ignis actually seem very similar in gameplay functions. And yet Relius is much more limited as a character imo, you see that Litchi can do practically the same stuff and yet it is for free with almost no drawbacks. I feel this is actually the case with multiple characters compared to others, which is why I think you can see the difference in who the strong characters are by design and how it factors into things.

I believe that Rachel's neutral is better than Ragna's based on the fact that she does have all those tools that specifically deal with controlling the screen, whereas Ragna is basically a footsie character. And it's not like her gameplay doesn't allow for her to safely setup most of that stuff anyway, like how often do you actually see Rachel get punished just for trying to summon pumpkin. It's just very hard for me to agree that Ragna's control of neutral is somehow better than Rachel's based on the tools available within the match. I believe that Litchi's neutral is the same way based on the fact that the stick can control how the opponent has to move around and react while she is free to still do whatever she wants. There are a lot of ratings that I disagree with when you compare them to other characters, which is why I wanted to lay out the categories separately so it is easier to compare when trying to discuss things. I think some characters are underestimated in certain categories and other characters are overestimated. I could give examples and make long posts explaining my opinion but it would be centered around the viewpoint of a Bang player so I might see things differently, instead I'll just leave it to the people with more experience and knowledge of the game since my opinion isn't much of a factor and it'd be hard to persuade Xie to change ratings when clearly he knows more than me about the game.

For those that want to visually see the comparison of characters within each separate category: Reward Assessment: S+ = Ragna , Valkenhayn, Tager S = Hakumen, Arakune, Noel S- = A+ = Taokaka, Carl A = Hazama, Bang, Mu, Relius A- = B+ = Platinum, Lambda, Tsubaki, Makoto B = Litchi, Jin B- = Rachel Neutral Viability: S+ = Valkenhayn, Taokaka S = Hazama, S- = Lambda A+ = Ragna, Hakumen, Arakune, Mu A = Bang, Rachel, Makoto A- = Relius, Litchi B+ = Noel, Platinum, Jin B = Tsubaki B- = Carl C+ = C = Tager C- = Offensive Viability: S+ = Arakune, Tager S = Carl S- = Platinum A+ = Valkenhayn A = Bang, Lambda, Rachel A- = Ragna, Taokaka, Hazama, Relius, Litchi B+ = Mu B = Noel, Jin, Tsubaki, Makoto B- = Hakumen Defensive Viability: S+ = Ragna S = Hakumen S- = A+ = A = Bang, Mu A- = Noel, Jin B+ = Valkenhayn, Tsubaki B = Hazama, Tager, Makoto B- = Taokaka, Carl, Relius, Platinum, Litchi C+ = Lambda, Rachel C = Arakune C- = Versatility: S+ = S = Litchi S- = A+ = A = Ragna, Taokaka, Hazama, Bang, Platinum A- = B+ = B = Valkenhayn, Hakumen, Mu, Relius, Noel, Lambda, Rachel, Tsubaki, Makoto B- = C+ = C = Arakune, Tager, Carl C- = * = No Jin Rating Complexity: S+ = S = Carl, Mu, Rachel S- = A+ = A = Valkenhayn, Taokaka, Bang A- = B+ = B = Arakune, Relius, Platinum, Lambda, Litchi, Tsubaki B- = C+ = C = Ragna, Hakumen, Hazama, Tager, Noel, Makoto C- = * = No Jin Rating Overall: S+ = S = Ragna, Valkenhayn, Hakumen S- = Arakune, Taokaka, Hazama A+ = A = Tager, Bang, Carl, Mu A- = Relius, Noel, Platinum, Lambda B+ = B = Rachel, Litchi, Jin, Tsubaki, Makoto B- =

Question: When you were doing the ratings, did you just start with 1 character and go from there while thinking about the other characters and/or did you go back through after giving ratings to all the characters and reassess the ratings you have previously given compared to other characters? The reason I want to know is because depending on what rating you gave one character it directly relates to how other characters would obviously be rated, so your standards across the board might differ depending on who gets what at the start. Maybe if you viewed the ratings independently with all the characters, you might see it differently compared to say looking at all the ratings for one character then compared to the next. Not saying they should be displayed as such, just when thinking about it.

It won't.

Or people could try to make intelligent posts discussing the topic at hand for why they think it should or shouldn't be that way, instead of making useless post that add nothing to the discussion.

....lol

Without splitting hairs, I can pretty much accept what they have for Bang's at least (from what I've seen watching a ton of matches only). There was nothing that really stood out like "wtf why do they have that". Although I might switch what they have for Vs. Hakumen and Vs. Taokaka, but that'd be me being picky.

In my experience: For the most part connection problems aren't really a big issue. I originally had players separated by EST/CST, then eventually started organizing stuff for PST/MST as well so lag wasn't "terrible". Then because the West group almost always had less players than the East group, I added the CST players into the West group. Beyond that I made some exceptions based upon "Regions" like the "East South Central" players would probably go by CST but because they were more East than West I grouped those individual players in East. Now if you're talking about problems with connecting to the rooms, typically I tried to get the same people to host who I knew hosted before without issues. Because it is more region based, players are less likely to not be able to connect to each other. Beyond that since usually they were in groups of 4 players a room, I would just try to get someone else to host. If THAT didn't work then I would try to reorganize some people til it worked. For the most part it wasn't a huge issue. As for people not showing up, that obviously happens all the time. Typically the East group almost always had enough players while the West were always cutting it close. Due to players needing to play within certain ranks, some players would be nice enough to use other characters. The other way to get around this would be to expand the range of ranks people can play in, although I tried to stick to just +/- 1 Rank anyway. The other good thing about the league, is for the most part you don't need a large number of people to still be able to get ranking matches in. Then it's just a matter of whether the organizer wants to stick around if they don't meet X number of players. To get around THAT, I thought about allowing players to organize their own League sessions as long as they had 4 or more people. Typically this would only happen if there was a "regular" there that knew how the rankings worked and could keep track. As for the time, I always did my ranbat tournaments and danisen league battles in 1 night typically in the span of 2 hours. I strongly discourage trying to organize tournaments that are open-ended and letting players try to match-up with each other whenever they are available. I'm sure you've seen that this method usually does not work, but I won't get into that. As for frequency, I was doing it every week but I started to get burned out so I'd probably go with once every two weeks which also gives players more time to get better in between ranking battles. For actual times, I usually did either 6pm EST or 9pm EST for the East group, West group was always 3 hours after that to give myself a break in between but again I got burned out which is part of the reason I stopped doing the league. As for the length of the league season, I guess just through the whole year with a break during the winter holidays til new years, with obvious breaks for other holidays but you know what I mean. Of course it should always not interfere with offline events. I will say that when I planned to start doing it again I was only going to do it for the East group, because I'm an east coast player myself and I didn't want to get burned out again. If people from other regions like west coast wanted to pick it up for them then of course they could. I wouldn't mind still keeping the rankings updated as long as the information was given to me. Now if this actually gets a ton of support, I would recommend breaking it down into "Regions", instead of just going by the time zones like I did. But I guess we'll see what people decide to do. EDIT: As for the obvious lag issue, by at least going by time zones that already helped part of the problem. Then if players from the same region were within the same ranking I would try to put them in a room together at least for the first hour (we would reorganize after the first hour so people can play different players / adjust rooms to the rankings.) Of course lag is always on a person to person basis and some people really do just have shitty connections or still play on wireless which I always discourage. Then it's more of a courtesy decision for them to leave or not. Oh yea, another good thing about the league format and how I did it at least, is that if players need to leave in between the session it usually isn't as big of an issue as it would be for tournaments. Although again, I always discourage people from leaving early since it is a pain sometimes when people get mad and leave a room RIGHT AFTER I ORGANIZE THEM. But for the most part it's not that bad.

If netplay is no longer looked at as the bane of the community's existence and a netplay league is something that people want to use to help build the community, I'm definitely going to recommend the danisen league format. As someone who has used it and organized it a ton, I'll give my reasoning for why I think it would be a good choice if people actually want to support this kind of thing and why I chose to do it before: -It gives a fairly accurate representation of where someone's skill level is compared to other players, relative to their character strength of course. Due to the way the system works of gaining a point for winning, losing a point for losing, and how the rankings work, you're forced into playing solid to increase your rank or to hold your rank at least or else risk being demoted. So if you're a strong player you'll rank up, but if you're weak you either won't rank up or maybe you'll keep going back and forth between ranks. The more you participate the more accurate it becomes. -It allows for multiple skill levels to participate. It doesn't matter if you're a tournament level player or a beginner, once the rankings start to fall into place you are always playing people within your skill level. This is obviously skewed in the beginning til people rank up and if people are good with multiple characters, but in the long run it is pretty much true. -It promotes consistent and solid play while also showing a players progress instead of just being about whoever "has the most wins" just by playing a lot or some random number that gets adjusted depending on who you win or lose against (PSR). This is part of the reason why I went away from the "Ranbat" tournaments, because mid-level players could just build up X amount of points over multiple tournaments without ever "winning" any tournaments or one person might just win 1 tournament and never play again. It just didn't feel right to me. -It allows for multiple matches to be played by multiple players no matter who wins or loses. Again one of the other reasons I went away from Ranbat tournaments. If you're not that good of a player and you lose your first two matches, that's it, sucks to be you no more playing. While that doesn't matter to the "good" players, in the Danisen league format players can just keep playing no matter what (for the most part.) The only thing that really holds this format back is if you don't get a good number of people to participate. This isn't really an issue for the most part outside of players possibly not being able to play their highest ranked character due to the other players needing to show up as well. But from when I did it for CS1 (not counting CS2), we had 57 players that were from EST and 45 players from CST,MST, and PST. I guess much like offline tournaments, it all depends on getting people to show up and who shows up. And this was without any "support" from the Dustloop community itself outside of the netplay forums which meant not everyone even saw the threads to potentially sign-up since not everyone bothers to go into the Online Play section. Now who's to say if it doesn't get a front page entry or maybe an announcement at the top of the forums that it wouldn't get even more people to participate. An example of what I mean is at some point there was a Noel Only tournament I believe in the Noel forums, and a bunch of people signed up that I personally never even seen post in the Online Play section. So there could be more players willing to play, they just might not have bothered to look. For what it's worth I planned on trying to start it up again once Extend released in the US, but after listening to people that said netplay was hurting the community more than helping I reconsidered for the time being since I didn't want to be part of the problem of holding the community back by organizing netplay stuff. But now if this is something people want to consider, then I'd be willing to help obviously and still try to do it. Or if other people want to do it that's fine as well. Whatever helps. That's my suggestion if that is really something people want to consider. Tournaments or some other League format could work as well if that's what people want.

I actually meant the arbitrary small profile from like the CT Artbook or I guess now from the Materials Collection info since I think it is a better resource, more accurate and updated. Stuff that's listed like Height, Weight, Hobbies, Likes, Dislikes. Obviously it isn't "needed", but I originally put Bang's just cause it was "character info" but instead removed it and just redid the small description like the other characters as I was asked. I wasn't sure how hard it would be to get it to look like it does on the right side of Wikipedia for other stuff like that. Like how this is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryu_%28Street_Fighter%29 Not saying we have to include ALL that information, but maybe just the "story related" stuff that's given to us. Although Voice Actor stuff might be nice cause some people are into that kinda stuff. I don't know though, like I said I was just trying to put extra little touches on Bang's at least before I was told otherwise and changed it.

I wanted to talk a little about what can or can't be added to the Wiki pages, since I was told they all should be consistent and follow the same format and no page should have anything the other pages don't. Before I knew that we were supposed to make all pages look the same, I thought it'd be a nice extra touch to include a small section showing Bang's colors. It's obviously not important to gameplay but it wasn't like it took away from the purpose of the Wiki page, and it added a little more to it. I remember checking out the SRK 3S Wiki and on Ken's page (maybe others), they had a picture showing his colors as well, so I thought that'd be something I'd add to Bang's page. But since other characters didn't have anything for Colors I was told to remove it, even though we probably have all the characters colors available. Another thing I added was Bang's "profile". Again it's not gameplay related, but it's just extra content that is apart of the game and adds to the characters. I removed this as well for the same overall reason. But would it be possible to add a section/table under the character's big picture to put the character's profile? If you look at athlete's pages on Wikipedia you see that they usually have their "Personal Information" on the right-hand side under the picture. It's not like we don't have this information available that we can't put it for all of them. The other sub sections I removed were "Tutorial Videos" under the "Strategy" section and "Combo Videos" under the "Combos" section. Other characters didn't have these as well so I figured I had to remove them. I have seen some pages with videos in them but they were just put into the already made sections so I guess I could still do that. The Combo Video section again was something I thought I'd add just for added content. Also, should we have a Match-Ups section on the character pages eventually? It was something else I thought about adding but didn't get around to it, then I was told about the pages thing so I didn't bother. I was looking at the Wiki as a way to have comprehensive information about the game/characters without having to look through forums. So that's why I was adding things that I thought were relevant to making them as "complete" and in-depth as possible. But this was before I knew all pages needed to stay the same. Just thought I'd ask before doing anything else.

Out of curiosity since it has been a while since I got passport, I looked into how fast I could go about getting one and came across this site that might help other people interested in going: http://www.onlinepassportservice.com/us-passport-service-guide/ I do not know all the details on whether or not first time applicants can use that or if they need to still do it in person at an agency, so make sure you really read into it and find out what needs to be done. Good luck to whoever plans on going.

To elaborate a little more on this with an actual match example: The difference between landing an IAD j.4C combo and doing something more basic could very well determine the results of a match. Getting that wall bounce means you're extending your combo for more damage and/or being able to combo into Daifunka and usually putting them into the corner. That in itself can end a close match, where as if you just did some basic combo into knockdown or 623B, you're giving them more of a chance to make a comeback and sometimes not even getting solid oki. One other thing that should be noted and I might've mentioned in the past, if you're doing one of those IAD j.4C combos but aren't quite at the right range to get the wall bounce and still kinda close, if you have the meter you can RC after the j.623B then air dash towards to the corner which forces the screen to adjust thus creating the wall bounce. The above reason is why this is something you should always have in the back of your head that you can go to use. I can tell you from watching a lot of Japanese matches that there were times that the Bang players could have done this and outright won the round but instead either lost the match or maybe made it drag on longer than it should have. The j.4C IAD stuff really is THAT important to potentially winning or losing matches. Any Bang that is playing competitively really needs to learn how to do it imo. EDIT: And to add a minor tip on how to do it, what I do is just do 6C (or j.4C)>8>66>j.4C. When we first started talking about it and it being a "IAD", you don't have to actually do it like one (96). For practice just break it down into parts. Do your combo into 6C then just jump straight up and end there, repeat that til you get it down. Then do the same thing except add the air dash. Once you consistently get the jump cancel>air dash part down the rest is relatively easy. Then when it comes to doing it off j.4C while in the air, it's going to seem a little weird but if you just remember that it's the same basic steps as it is off 6C you'll pick up on it as well.

I started working on the Bang wiki and in regards to the frame data stuff, what "format" should I be using as of now? When I first went to the page the template frame data has, "Attack Data-BB" which includes (Damage/Heat Gain/P1/P2/Start up/Active/Recovery/FrameAdv/Hitbox). As I was working on it I've been looking at other character pages to get example "templates" and Valkenhayn for instance has the frame data as "Attack Data-BBCS2" which includes (Damage/P1/P2/Guard/AtkLevel/Startup/Active/Recovery/Frame Adv./Untech/Hitbox) As it is now the Bang page's frame data was all just put in as a template so none of the data is correct (it's all the same) and is just a placeholder. But since I've been working on it now, I was wondering which one of those should I be using? I would assume the "BBCS2" one since it has Guard while the other has Heat Gain which isn't as important I guess. Or should I hold off on even messing with the frame data until we possibly get the up to date Extend frame data?

Mid-Screen: ・5C>5D>j.B>j.4C>dj.B>dj.4C>dj.C *Mid-Screen*/Near Corner: ・5C>5D>j.4C>IAD dj.4C>dj.623B>d.6C>j.4C>j.C>Poison Nail (knocked down) Near Corner: ・5C>5D>j.B>j.623B>d.623B>5B>2B>j.A>j.B>j.4C>dj.C ・5C>5D>j.4C>j.623B>d.5B>623B>6C>j.4C>j.C ・(FC) 5C>5D>j.4C>j.623B>d.623B>5B>2B>j.A>j.B>j.4C>dj.4C>dj.C>Poison Nail (knocked down?) Corner: ・5C>5D>623B>5B>6C>jc j.D>2B>6C>j.C = [~2,800] ・5C>5D>623B>5B>6C>j.4C>j.623B>5B>6C>j.4C>j.C>(Poison Nail) = [3,472] ・5C>5D>j.623B>6C>j.D>2B>6C>j.4C>j.C = [2,869] ・5C>5D>j.623B>6C>j.D>Web Nail>5C>6D>623B = [~2,700 / 3 Seals] That's all I got for now without being able to play the game myself. I listed the other ones just because I figured they probably work in the corner as well with some adjustments. There might be a relaunch combo possible as well off it if you do an IAD j.4C off the first j.4C into j.C>5A>etc. Without playing the game I don't know for sure and I haven't made a note of it from videos, but it could be possible.

I know and I said the same thing. My point has just been whether or not the comments for it not being at EVO or whatever is because the BB scene itself didn't show up just because it doesn't reach X amount of entrants. THAT part of it isn't a fair judgement when they say it is because of the scene itself when that support is there relative to the number of people playing. Now by all means if they say it's because it can't get 400+ entrants as a required number, that is perfectly fine and I don't blame them, but those expectations are way too high if a game doesn't sell a lot to begin with. As I've said, I don't think they are in the wrong for choosing the most popular games, but hopefully you can see the difference between the two when saying it is because "the scene didn't support it" and "it didn't get X amount of entrants". The scene supports it, maybe not enough for tournament organizers, but it just means since we have the much smaller player base it would take an extra amount of effort for us to get to the same level as other games for tournament organizers to support BB. Thus we have this topic. But again the EVO stuff doesn't matter now but I wanted to make my comment perfectly clear so you didn't seem to misunderstand me.