dragontamer

I've got a couple of newbie level friends. I'll see if they can make it. I'll do my best to make it as well.

623D -> land -> 66 -> 6C. The timing from d.6D -> d.2D -> 623D is pretty easy IMO. Its the d.5D -> 623D -> 66C link thats difficult.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11930084 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtCBeyT9gJw Interesting combo video. Links I haven't seen before: 66C -> 4D -> d.5C -> j.C -> 66C -> j.D link. It seems like a good way to fit 4D into combos, while still saving the standard j.D juggle for later. Haida Loop -> 22B -> 6D 4.4k Combo off of midscreen Throw -> 22C -> Rapid. Hazama gets juggled "old style" Haida loop, 66C -> 22C -> 66C -> 22C -> 66C (bounces as high as old Tager Haida loop). I'm not sure if it was specific to the setup. 236D -> 632146D -> 66 632146D link on Jin. Lmao.

Gauntlet Hades and 2D seem slow enough that I can 2D / 4D on reaction (when I'm on my game). Its a matter of recognizing the attack, blocking correctly, and then mashing D while blocking correctly :-). 2D beats the low, 4D beats the high. Both 2D and 4D are invincible on frame one to their respective attack. Dead Spike can be 5Ded when I'm on my game as well. I don't think that the better Ragnas are gonig to do those attacks very often... BTW: everyone outzones Noel. You gotta get used to the fact that Bolverk is part of Noel's body... if Bolverk feels pain so does Noel. IE: the very tips of 5C and 5B can still hurt Noel, which is why people like Makoto can lol outzone Noel. (Makoto's and Bang's 5A will counter-hit 5C without Makoto/Bang taking damage). Fortunately, thats the issue with Ragna's jesus kick as well. It may have huge range, but the tips of Ragna's feet are vulnerable. Its what makes 4D so easy to use against it.

Here's some notes for standing reset opportunities: Example String: 5D -> d.6A -> d.6C -> d.5C -> j.D -> d.5A is the standing reset path. You'll do ~2.4k damage. d.5A on hit is about +20 frames, so d.6B will be a 1-frame hole (in my tests, it beats Tager's 360A, Bang 2D, Rachel Cat Chair... loses to DPs / Reversals). d.5A (hit) -> d.6D is a 6-frame hole, but with low profile. Bang, Noel, and Ragna's 5A whiff while Noel is in d.6D. Only Taokaka's 6A trades, but d.6D -> (hit out) -> 2D is a true combo, even if Taokaka's 6A trades. Basically, outside of dragon punches / supers / Hakumen Counter Mashing during d.5A, you've got a safe high-option with a jab/throw-proof low mixup. Daifunka rule vs Bang still applies, and the d.6B counter-hits Bang's 2D (2D is vulnerable for first 3 frames). You're unfortunately within the reach of Litchi's and Jin's 623D. Only problem is the large amount of damage you're sacrificing for this. On the other hand, a reset will easily net you ~2.8k or so damage, so you can get into 5k+ damage if you sucessfully reset the opponent. Here's my combos from there: d.5A (hit) -> (reset, overhead) d.6B -> d.6A -> d.6C -> 623D -> 66C -> j.D -> d.6D -> d.5C -> 236D. Does NOT reset on crouching opponent. d.5A (hit) -> (reset, low) d.6D -> d.2D -> 623D -> 66C -> j.D -> d.5C -> d.6B -> 236D. d.5A (hit) -> (reset, guard crush) d.6C -> d.6D -> d.2D -> 623D -> stuff... very good damage here. With corner + fenrir... 5k without the guard crush, Corner + Fenrir + Guard Crush is ~4k. Now... 5D usually goes for at least 3.4k damage or so... so perhaps thats not the ideal setup... you may want to go for more damage typically. But lets say... You do 5D (blocked) -> d.5B (blocked) -> d.6A (opponent attempts to jump out, and thus is hit). You can hitconfirm d.6A (or d.5B) into: (d.5B) -> d.6A -> d.5C -> j.D -> d.5A -> standing reset. You can also loop the overhead combo back into a standing reset: (j.d) -> (d.5A) -> (reset) -> d.6B -> d.6A -> d.5C - j.D -> d.5A -> standing reset. You'll get ~1.7k damage. Then go low this time, you'll probably hit your opponent :-) From 5D, you'll lose ~1.3k damage for the potential of ~3k . From d.6A chain revolver pressure, you don't lose much at all and potentially gain a huge amount of damage. d.6B resets well into d.6C in my experience. I haven't tested how tight the reset is. 2D, and d.2D also have a 1-frame reset into d.6B... and also 6-frame reset into d.6D.

Mizzet optimized 5D CH to 5D CH-> d.6C -> d.6D -> d.2D -> 623D -> 66C -> j.D -> d.5D -> d.6B -> d.5C -> 236D for 4.3k midscreen. Going corner combo j.D -> d.5D -> d.6B -> d.5B -> d.5C -> 236D -> (fenrir) goes 4.4k without fenrir and 5.4k with fenrir. How much do you get off of 5D CH -> 3C?

BTW: you posted this already. Generally speaking, when you want a question answered, you rephrase it. There's a reason why it hasn't been answered yet. In this case, I have no clue what you are even saying. You can start off by listing an actual combo instead of being unclear and ambiguous.

Whats the state of the opponent? Juggled or standing? Instinctively, I don't think that d.5B and d.5C will link

Steel Rain is even slower than Daifunka. If you can react to Daifunka, you can react to Steel Rain (uhhh... 40 frames? If you did d.6C as soon as you can after d.6B, d.6C will continue attacking for another 17 frames. 214D takes 3 frames to become invincible, so thats a total of ~20 frames when you are vulnerable. Daifunka may have 18 frames of startup, but Bang still needs to "dash" to you (you're about mid distance after the d.6B setup) That gives you the few extra frames to sucessfully do a 214D, all the time, every time.

Here's a character-by-character analysis. Characters who have no options, no matter their heat: * Litchi -- 3C after her 623D. All Green whiffs. * Bang -- 214D the Daifunka * Rachel -- Lol At best, Bang can escape the d.6C safely (wakeup 6D teleport as far away as possible). Be sure to react to Daifunka with 214D. Litchi literally has no option but to block the d.6C. Characters who need at least 50% heat to wakeup-reversal Pretty much, these need a super * Noel * Taokaka * Carl * Hazama -- sometimes Hotenjin whiffs, I dunno why though Most of the time Hotenjin trades, and then you'll still get comboed. * Lambda (Gravity Well whiffs) Characters who need 25% heat to wakeup-reversal: * Jin -- 623C doesn't work, so the better 623D or Arrows of Ice need to be used. Characters who don't need any heat to escape: * Tager -- Wakeup Sledge * Ragna -- Wakeup DP * Makoto -- Wakeup DP * Tsubaki -- 623A trades. * Arakune -- Backdash escapes safely. For these characters, you may want to end with just d.6B to have some sort of block avaliable on their wakeup.

Okay, I'm compiling the list for countering various reveral attempts. 1. Jin's Wakeup 623C whiffs. d.6C recovers before Jin does. You have more than enough time to 3C or 5D counter-hit to punish the whiffed 623C, even after whiffing the d.6C yourself. 2. Litchi's Tsubame Gaeshi does not launch you. You can Counter-hit 3C her, but not 5D or 5C. I doubt you can Haida loop without rapid or the corner. However, 3C Counter-hit will start a staffless litchi game. 3. Litchi's All Green whiffs, and d.6C counter-hits. Go crazy. 4. Bang's 2D and 5D are not wakeup reversals, and d.6C will counter-hit him. Bang's 6D is a wakeup reversal, but is so slow that d.6C -> d.2D will counter-hit, even if Bang teleports. I guess Bang can teleport to the opposite side of the screen to escape however. 5. Bang's Daifunka can be reacted to and escaped. d.6C -> (DAIFUNKA!!! Super Flash) -> 214D escapes. Your opponent wastes 50% heat, and you get out safely. 6. Tager can Wakeup Sledge. Both Sledges are beaten by 214D... but reacting to Sledge A seems tough. Wakeup 360A is not a reversal, so it gets counter-hit by d.6C. 720C eats you, so be careful. I don't recommend this vs Tager. j.D -> d.6A on the other hand, holds promise vs Tager: it allows an air tech, and Tager's aerial options are very limited compared to his ground ones. d.6A -> reload keeps Noel on the advantage. d.6A -> d.6C punishes neutral techs, and airborne Tager will probably lose to 4D otherwise if he's aggressive, and air grabs if he's defensive. 7. Hakumen's Yukikaze can be rapided out of, because d.6C is considered a true projectile. 6D and 2D can also be rapided -> backdash, but thats IMO impractical in a real battle. I also don't recommend this vs Hakumen. The d.6A isn't too good either, because Hak's j.D is very good as well. 8. Ragna, Makoto, and Mu-12's dragon punches beat this clean. The d.6B -> reload guns is a good place to drop if you want to be blocking on their wakeup. d.6A seems useful vs Mu-12, but Ragna and Makoto have aerial dragon-punches. 9. Lambda's Gravity Well whiffs (not enough range). Punish with 214A (only thing fast enough after d.6C). Her wakeup super will kinda pwn you though...

A Modest Proposal: Chain Revolver Oki http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM385yf1jg8

I mean, I made a new video about it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM385yf1jg8 Literally, chain revolver Oki. It doesn't seem too bad. Plus, we can start having a discussion.

A Modest Proposal: Chain Revolver Oki http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM385yf1jg8 As noted in the video, please comment and criticize.

Rolling enemies are in airborne state. 6C thus "launches" them. But very few people forward roll, and 6C on wakeup is extremely scrubby / punishable. 2B -> 6C is much safer, but doesn't lead to too much damage. It will lead to chain revolver oki though

http://www.round1.sg/forums/index.php?topic=929.0 FC 4d 6c 2d 5d 5c SJC j.d 5b 5d 6b 6a 214a [4944] Standing only. Terrible terrible damage. FC 4d 6c 6d 2d 623d 66c j.d 5d 5c 6b 236d [4570] FC j.4d 6c 2d 5d 5c SJC j.d 5b 5d 6b 6a 214a [4580] Standing only. FC j.4d 6c 6d 2d 623d 66c j.d 5d 5c 6b 236d [4223] Yes, that is heatless 5k damage.

I have a EzCap driver. I'll make a video... eventually... EDIT: Video Is done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM385yf1jg8 I've officially spammed this forum 4 times with it

Its plenty effective in the corner from the right distance. Here's a poor setup: Assume opponent will emergency tech. (blah) -> j.6D -> d.236D -> Fenrir -> 4D (whiff on opponent's tech... for spacing) -> d.6C. Problem is, if they are lazy, they can eat the blackbeat 4D and then forward tech to escape. On the other hand, 4D in the corner spaces you out perfectly to do a d.6C. I gave up on making this work btw... but thats how far I've gotten. And sc2 is awesome, but I promised myself to never get that deep into Starcraft again. I'm remaining casual on that one. None of my RL friends want to play with me ******************** Also, before the flood of questions arrive... be sure to do d.5C -> DELAY -> j.D -> d.6B. Else, the opponent will be able to tech the j.D.

Yeah, I erased that paragraph for a reason. ------------- Update: I think I finally found it: what I consider to be Noel's correct Oki: Its built off of d.5C -> jump cancel -> j.D -> d.6B -> d.6C. The awesome thing about THIS reset, is that it practically can go anywhere a d.5C can go. It resets well, even with moderate proration. For example: 5A 6A 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5C j.D d.6B (opponent Emergency Techs) d.6C. Normally, you'd do d.5C -> 236D for 2155 damage (or d.5C -> d.6B -> 236D for 2158). Or... you can do d.5C j.D d.6B for 2051 damage, and get really nice Oki off of it. Virtually every combo I've tested can be ended with d.5C j.D d.6B d.6C Oki. Its about 100 less damage than Bloom Trigger, but Bloom Trigger doesn't give you d.6C Oki. As usual, delay the j.D so that it comes as late as possible. d.5C has an insane amount of untechable time. You have precisely 2 more chain revolvers (or 3 including finisher). Here's your options: Hits confirm, opponent wasn't blocking or was mashing on wakeup: d.6C 2D 5D 623D 66C j.D d.6D (etc. etc.) If you go to the corner, this reset can go for ~5k damage with Fenrir. d.6C also hits all wakeup-backdashers except for Tager. The combo is different because the opponent will be airborne... d.6C -> 5D -> 623D seems like a decent punish, 3.8k in the corner, 4.8k with fenrir. Obviously, any opponent worth their salt will block. So here's your mixups: High Mixup: d.6C -> d.6B (hit) -> d.5D -> 623D -> 66C j.D (etc. etc.). ~3k midscreen, 4k with fenrir in the corner. Very tight link. Delay the d.6C -> d.6B slightly to improve d.6C's "vacuum" effect. I managed to do it on Carl. However, a delayed d.6B won't be a solid blockstring. Low Mixup: d.6C -> d.6D (hit) -> d.2D -> 623D -> 66C j.D (etc. etc). Easier combo IMO. On instant-block, d.6B will counter-hit 5A / Throw mashers. d.6D is fast enough to counter-hit on normal block, but not on instant-block (3 frame hole on normal block, 8 frames on instant). Low Mixup #2: d.6C -> 214A -> etc. etc. Easiest combo, but mashers will get you. Instant Block + Chicken Guard punish (opponent is mashing up-back): d.6C (instant-blocked) -> d.6A -> d.6C -> dunno, 214A or 623D or something. Punishes Arakune's Chicken Guards on instant-block (fastest back-jumper). Note, d.6C must be at the "sweet spot" to punish chicken guarders. Fortunately, j.D -> d.6B -> d.6C seems to put them there. Normal Block + Chicken Guard punish: d.6C (normal blocked) -> d.2D -> d.5D -> 623D -> 66C. Arakune can't jump out of this. Three Primers: d.6C -> whatever -> d.6C -> 623D. Lol bursted opponents (except Tager). Opponent gets too scared to tech: d.6B -> (Reload Guns) -> (wait a tick) -> 2A/2B -> 6C etc. etc. Note: The 6C is meaty, so a Wakeup -> Chicken Guard will get punished by the d.6C, and you can go for that sweet 5k corner combo. Thus, the only other thing you have to worry about is Wakeup -> Block / Instant Block -> Chicken Guard as a possible escape. 2D covers normal block, 6A covers Instant Block. Only wakeup reversals can punish this. Do the reset correctly (ie: decent enough proration), and your opponent CANNOT air roll. Furthermore, the only roll avaliable at that moment would be the emergency tech (equivalent to a neutral tech). IE: there is no escape if the opponent techs. You're gonna get a black-beat or a ground "neutral" tech. Its that simple. Unfortunately, this reset does NOT work in the corner. So don't bother trying. It only works midscreen. ************** Other options / Similar Setups: j.D -> d.6A -> (tech) -> d.6C will cause an air-tech after most combos. A back air-roll will escape Noel, but in the corner, it doesn't really matter. d.6C will hit them. That leaves forward roll, which d.6A -> reload -> air grab will catch them. Thus, I argue that j.D -> d.6A is for the corner. After all, none of the j.D -> d.6B stuff works in the corner. Well... I lied, j.D -> d.6B -> reload puts you at ~+5 frames vs emergency tech, but you don't get any free guard primer break + mixup oppoertunities. Then again, d.6B -> reload is the safest bet for Oki. j.D -> d.6B -> reload guns puts you at about +4 frames or maybe +5 frames if the opponent emergency techs. Otherwise, he'll be doing a forward/backwards/neutral/quick roll... but thats much slower than an emergency tech, and d.6B -> reload -> 2B will catch those. Obviously, if they reversal like an idiot, you can block. Lol. I plan to make a video eventually so that you guys can see it in action. Weakness I can think of: wakeup reversals, especially if the opponent is reacting to the d.6C. Note that Yukkikaze can be Rapided out of, because d.6C is considered a true projectile.

Mizzet did a good job optimizing combos. Its in his signature. http://forums.round1.sg/index.php?topic=929.0 Some of his combos end in interesting gimmicks: in particular, his standing combos sometimes end with 214A 2B (opponent tech) 6C "resets". For the question on hand, here's what Mizzet has to say: FC 4d 6c 2d 5d 5c SJC j.d 5b 5d 6b 6a 214a [4944] Standing only. I'm pretty sure this one is the one that ends int he 214A 2B (tech) 6C "reset"... FC 4d 6c 6d 2d 623d 66c j.d 5d 5c 6b 236d [4570] This does less damage than the standing combo. Somehow, I feel that crouching combos should do more damage, but I haven't found anything better than this myself...

Hell, Kune's j.B clashes with 4D sometimes :-( Noel does not have an anti-air vs Kune. Fortunately, if he keeps jumping in predictably, you can probably j.B him out of the air for like... a 1500 damage combo :-( His j.B is superior to Noel's j.B, but if he's aiming for the ground, he'll do it too late.

After getting my ass beaten by LostSoul a bunch of times, I suddenly don't feel so bad with this Matchup. Tager has the advantage, but it isn't too bad really: I contribute my losses to the fact that LostSoul is just a better player than me. I concur with the 6-4 matchup feeling so far: This isn't nearly as bad as fucking CT Noel vs Arakune (6.5 to 3.5 or 7 to 3). Here's my thoughs: * All of Tager's hitboxes are better than yours. 2A beats j.A, j.B and j.C. Lol j.D beats Tager's 2A but is risky. All of Tager's normals have more range and "priority" than Noel's normals. Okay, priority doesn't exist in this game: more precisely, All of Tager's normals have disjointed hitboxes, while all of Noel's Normals's hitboxes are vulnerable. Don't rely on zoning with normals anymore, it just doesn't work, ever. For the most part, pretend that your attacks are 1 frame slower (or perhaps, that Tager's attacks are 1-frame faster) and you'll do fine. IE: You don't have a keep away game. A keep away game requires solid pokes... and disjointed hitboxes on your pokes (ie: Litchi's hitboxes). Noel's normals don't have them, and good luck trying a keepaway game with chainrevolver. * Tager's "Guessing Game" is his reward for getting a combo off of you. * Vary your jump ins. And don't jump in very often, Tager's 2A and 2C go into absurd combos. * Use 4D on Tager's jump ins. 6A is still decent, but its much harder to combo off of. * Know Tager's tech traps. Tager has a billion of them, but they're generally escapable. Know all of your wakeup options. However, keep an eye on your magnetism. Rolling can be punished by Tager's j.D (whiff) -> 720C for example, but only when magnetized. * Hope you play a Tager who doesn't know how to Tick Throw. If you do, mash that jump while you are getting comboed. Not much else you can do. Technically speaking, you are vulnerable for 4 frames to regular attacks while jumping... but I expect most Tagers to go for the Tick Throw. * Instant Block + 5D. Instant Block everything you can, so that when Tager decides to Sledge, you'll be ready to time that 5D to crush him. Know your 5D counter-hit combo in this matchup. Don't mash 5D, REACT to Tager's Sledge, 5D, 6C, etc. etc. If you're in Tager's blockstring, you'll need to instant-block to recover in time to 5D his stuff. * Use 3C Sparingly. All of Tager's defensive options beat it: Throw, 360A, Sledge, block/punish. When you get 50% heat, you can start doing 3C at "long range". There's a distance where 3C can't be punished on block, and you can rapid on reaction to Sledge. * Fuck Noel's Backdash. Damn it. I wouldn't even bother if you are Magnetized.

Holy fucking shit. I'm sorry for being so god damn wrong. I was fact-checking myself this morning, and this is very very wrong. It is not solid, but 6A offers the most blockstun that also gatlings into 6B. Much Apologies. I've edited my post to remove the stupidity. 6B on wakeup -> 5D applies if you read the paragraph before it was deleted, but I don't recommend 6A -> 6B as "standard" pressure.

Good point. And he had to sacrifice his arm as well. Its more like Ragna was the only guy who could have stopped Mu (not necessarily defeat her). Well, I guess Terumi could have sacrified his BlazBlue as well, but I doubt he'd do that.

I'm thinking that the Nu / Ragna lifelink was against Ragna's favor. IE: every time he hit Nu, its a "stop punching yourself" moment. Hazama probably did the same with Noel/Mu when he forced the lifelink on her. I called it a year ago, but CS didn't confirm nor deny this fact. Lao Chu (the panda) is Amaterasu.