Zinac Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Rachel vs Ragna Tactics Punishes Hell's Fang - IB Hell's Fang>2C to punish the follow-up (Maybe only if its delayed).
NasaXnieru Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Hey Dustloop. I'm having a pretty hard time with this matchup so I was hoping that some veterans here could give me some tips. The main problem I'm having is escaping his pressure and landing pokes (6B especially). Seems like whenever I go to punish his attacks I'm either out-ranged or my pokes won't come out fast enough (on disadvantage), which causes me to eat another long combo. I can put him close to death after about 2 combos but the problem is starting them. What's safe to use against Ragna? I can keep him at range and zone him for a bit but once he gets close the only thing I can think to do is j.214B->(2C)2D in attempt to slow him down. Another huge annoyance/problem I have is fighting Ragna while he's in Blood Kain. His corner shenanigan 6C->(D->66)x2->214214D is ridiculous lol (burst or die if it catches you). I can't understand how this matchup is 6-4. . . Please teach me!
Kane Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 You're either not using pumpkin much, or you're not blocking and letting Ragna get free hits. You should use pumpkin more, it's give loads of frame advantage of block, it just makes Rachel getting in alot easier, and if they get hit, just combo into 5DC > C and mixup from there. If they block your crap, I'd try n mixup with her triangle jump j.2C & if that's blocked, end with 3C (frame advantage again) and get out. Ragna's mixup game is really weak so if he does get in, you should just block and see what options they keep using. He just doesn't have the options to keep you guessing, (GH, 6B, 2B, 2C or 2D) and tbh, just using barrier will push him away enough to render most of those pretty useless. Hope that helps :3
kro_ Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I don't find 6b very useful against Ragna because his normals are much faster and outrange it. It works for catching a dead (dread?) spike, though. I would emphasize using frog defensively in this matchup since he is forced to attack you from close range and he cannot use hell's fang to close distance while it's out. The pumpkin is usually necessary to do that. Just stay near the frog so it can bail you out if he forces you to block and protect it with pumpkin + seeds/combo followup if he tries to kill it. As always, if he blocks it then you get a free mixup.
ghaleon109 Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 The chair also works for some of his longer ground strings, especially if he's using his RC's to keep the pressure on. But don't abuse it. After the 1st or 2nd time he'll see it coming and just grab you.
NasaXnieru Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Thanks for the advice! The pumpkin/frog helped alot, I'm taking down alot more Ragnas now
K2 Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Just some basics I want to share and make the match up a little bit organized If you are good, they are good to rmb. If you are new, use it to build your games up. Ragna He has high pressure, you will probabily lose in a ground to ground battle. Most of your air to ground attacks will lose due to his 6A AA. His normal is too good, so you will need to be paitent, work on ur defence, calm down Things you need to worry about -5B His 5B is FAR and fast. This move will determine the game, so if you don't want to lose don't eat it. Your key to this move is to use 6B>pumpkin from a distance so he will back off a little, the idea is...eating a rachel 6B CH = die so he won't run in 5B llike there is no tml. Use it like he is going to run into it, not use it to attack ( am i making snese? lol), else your 6B(and all your moves) will lose to his 5B. And please, this move is to worry about, not trying to counter it, his 5B is like our 6A, he need it to win, if you tries to hard to counter it is in his big big favor, so imo....no no. -low air JC usually a surpirse attack from Ragna and your 6A on reaction will lose, yes YOU WILL. So you got to learn and know when you cannot risk your 6A. -Hell Fang Ground type horizontal charge. Far and it has long activation frame. If you IB the 1st hit, u can use 5A>combo to counter. If you IB the 2nd hit, u can use your 6B>combo to counter. IF he does it from far, It can be countered by 2C on reaction. Simple ways to prevent hell fang spam. pumpkin>B cannon+6D = simple yea? he can't charge pumkin>frog>6D = this can hold him on the ground pumkin>observe>fish for 6A A cannon>22A = to use this is kinda tricky, but it is rather power to stop ground rush down. How to attack Keep in mind that Ragna has low life, 1~2 effective combo will finish him off. If you bait ONE srk, use your most danage combo b/c 6B CH has very low proration, you get this you control the game. -Keep in mind always watch out for srk, use 6B to land a CH after he lands. If you mange to make him scare of using srk your life will be easy. After this point you can do J2C>5B>jump>barrier guard and put some mind games into it. Combo Specific C+D>C+D>frog if you are desprite. C+D>C>pumpkin>6D>6C/5B~ if you want to save up wind stocks. Recommand C+D~C>pumkin>6D>5B>5C~C>B cannon>~ 3C9D>5B~ 5B>jB>J2C>JC>5B~ aka msy combo ( wt a beast making combos everywhere) delay JC as late as possible is the trick and buffer your dash jump before to connect JB How to Guard as you can see, ragna takes risk trying to rush you, and ur offence high low games are not effective due to his srk and 6A. Who ever blocks better and knows how to punlish takes the game. He will rush you down rmb, paitent , watch out for overhead, do not panic and try to jump away like a scrub and eat random hits, such as his JA>JB~ combo, and his 6A b/c u didn't barrier in the air after you jump. You got to know there is pressure apply on him if you block everything. Know how to use barreir to push him away. Do not barrier for life like a scrub and get your guard broken. Making frogs and pumpkin so he can back off, this is just basic for rachel against everyone. Ususall i don't recommand using 2C to asnswer all the CH ( unless it is for anti air), cuz good players will just run in and throw you =\ His mix ups -6B eating his 6B = 4k combo, ultimate attention to this move Someways he will connect to 6B JC>land>6B 2A>(2A)>6B 2A>2B>6B 6A>6B something like that -214B sudden attack in mid-range, he won't do it up close cuz it will jump over you -6D>6D Is a Mid, you need to block high. This move is very dangerous b/c it will barrier crash you in 2-3 attemps, if you IB the hit before his 6D you can backdash, but is best to jump away and use wind to escape. Feel free to share ideas, and edit to make it better. I am not the best typer and i don't check my work. and the stuff above are basics, i am sure as we get exp. there are better answers to ragna. Go loli~ K2
kro_ Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Rachel can crouch under his 5b at the right range.
Coinage Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 Very good info. Against Ragna's Burning Knuckles, if he chose not to complete this move, you can get a grab in if time right. On 6D/6D, I barrier guard this and 236A on him. When defending against Ragna, I prefer to block low since they love to use 6C. Pumpkin are effective in this match. It truly helped me in my wins . When I put pressure on ragna its usually this sequence: 5B->6B->5C+D->5C->236A since the lobelia pushes them back without whiffing it. Sometimes they forget to block the 236A cause of distance i guess. Since 236A does not knock them down, your put to a neutral stand off. Well they must block or backdash cause you got a chance to do 22A if they decide to rush-in.
kro_ Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 When I put pressure on ragna its usually this sequence: 5B->6B->5C+D->5C->236A since the lobelia pushes them back without whiffing it. Sometimes they forget to block the 236A cause of distance i guess. Since 236A does not knock them down, your put to a neutral stand off. Well they must block or backdash cause you got a chance to do 22A if they decide to rush-in. While this string works against a lot of people that don't know the matchup, practically everyone with good experience fighting Rachel knows about the gap between blocked 5cdc and 236a. It's the perfect opportunity to counter with an invincible or projectile-invulnerable move. Ragna has ID, Noel has 5d and 3c, Nu has backdash into 5d, Tager has sledge, etc. The reason a lot of people get hit by it is that they were probably trying to exploit the gap but missed the timing due to lag or whatever. It's best not to commit yourself to a blocked 5cdc unless you're going for guardbreak or have pumpkin cover.
Spirit Juice Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 If you do end up doing 5CDC (be it on purpose or on accident), your best bet is to do 3C+9D to make your string safe, in addition being able to continue your pressure providing you have wind.
Coinage Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Ah I see your point but I'll try certain things out since, 236A works for me. But I never tried it if someone did moves that had invincibility. 236A comes out fast and you recover faster right?
excelence Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 ID hit you before you finish throwing your pole
Istillduno Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 After taking a break from Blazblue I've come back and I'm just wondering if anyone knows what a good punisher is for an "Inferno Divida!" and whether it's best to block or barrier guard it (ib is a bit iffy because I'm playing online), he always seems to be just out of range of anything I want to try and start.
ant12292 Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Block it regularly, then dash in 5B followed by whatever to punish.
Istillduno Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Ah thanks, that's good to know since 5b is such a good starter. :grin: Edit. didn't want to spam the board with another post soley didicated to the word thanks so I'll shove it here. Thanks looking foward to counterhitting that ragna a lot now :grin:
ant12292 Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Now that I think about it a 6B(ch) works also and does more damage so you might want to use that instead.
Spirit Juice Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 6B is your best punish option for blocked/whiffed Inferno Divider.
Yesterday Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 The only problem I have with Ragna is when I get rushed down I can't get him off easily. Any quick advice?
Mariolle Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 my elder bro plays a mean ragna, and does really well here at town. He told me to Jump away from his pressure when he's open if not find a higher priority move then his. This advice actually worked for me... now i have WAY less trouble against ragnas. This has been stated before, I forget where and who said it but they said that if ragnas rushdown is really good(Don't even know if that's proper grammer) use 2c carefully to lay off some pressure.
Ryock Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I had a LOT of trouble with Ragna when I first started the game, as I had no idea how to really get the pressure off of myself. But I always had a lot of trouble with Sol as well, and just about anyone with a DP. Tip: IB, wait, and 2c are nice. Try not to be predictable with 2c though, as the good Ragnas will be expecting it. IBing, 6a, and 5a, and 5b are my best friends when dealing with pressure. When all else fails, you could counter assault though.
iKotomi Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I think the single easiest things for beginners to try to keep in mind is just try to keep a frog down as much as possible. Ragna wants to fight up close, and if a frog is down, he needs to be a lot more careful with his pressure. Also, the frog seems to randomly tank ragna's hell fang as I'm putting it down, but I'm not quite sure if that's just a spacing thing. Oh, and learning to bait the DP. This is more of a general gameplay thing, but learning how to leave gaps in your pressure games where a reversal dragon punch might allow an escape is a key part of the game. Getting your 6B counterhit is a very profitable tradeoff for the small gap you left in your block string.
Konton Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Ragna is the most boring and difficult character to fight for me. yuck.
Kuuhaku Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 As long as I don't get cornered, Ragna's actually one of my easier match ups. If you block both hits of Hell's Fang, you can get an easy 6B CH during the recovery frames. Course... this is offline. Online you'll only get it sometimes. He's not that hard to zone if you got George out. He's gotta guess whether he should risk trying to hit it or letting you spam lobelia at him all day. Also, if they throw out random 5Bs, I've been able to counter it with 2C pretty consistently. It gets them pretty angry too. Just don't do this if they have 50% heat because smarter Ragnas will RC and hobo smack you for it. I try to be careful with 6A though since his jump attacks out range mine, and if I don't psychic the timing or miss I'll get smacked. Other than that, I always feel bad for his HP. Only takes two good combos for me to take him out. So he's under a lot more pressure to not make mistakes than I am. Though, if cornered- rapid cancel pressure =
Konton Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 I hate his stupid DP that kills j.2c pressure. I hate being punished with hells fang or distortion for summoning pumpkin from across the stage. I hate how unreliably 6a is in the match-up. I hate how once I'm in the corner I don't ever seem to get out. I hate how all Ragna's normals > my normals. gah! But I do love Ragnas glass jaw. <3
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