Sophisticat Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Dude would be a goddamn fortress. Which is exactly how I think he should be designed. See my post a couple pages back. :P But yeah, that is too strong, which is why CS Haku saw his 6a/b/c nerfed in return for his buffs. Imo, though, CS Haku with CT 6a/b & CT 6c + CS [6c] >>> Nu. J.C would be more lethal in CT because of the reduced space, so Nu can't zone/mixup quite as well, plus you've got Void to take care of those pesky swords. Haku'd've been the ultimate anti-Nu. :P
Warhound Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 Which is exactly how I think he should be designed. See my post a couple pages back. :P But yeah, that is too strong, which is why CS Haku saw his 6a/b/c nerfed in return for his buffs. Imo, though, CS Haku with CT 6a/b & CT 6c + CS [6c] >>> Nu. J.C would be more lethal in CT because of the reduced space, so Nu can't zone/mixup quite as well, plus you've got Void to take care of those pesky swords. Haku'd've been the ultimate anti-Nu. :P I'm pretty sure if he had all his main CS buffs and old 6A, he'd be S tier, or close to it. The only way you'd be able to get in his defense is if the Haku player is really fucking dumb. So loketest #3 is happenin'....anyone got any news to share? Preferably translated.
mAc Chaos Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 I'd be happy to trade new j.C and 4C for old 6A and old 6B. Oh and counter damage. His main problem, what made him low tier, was how easily the zoners walked all over him, right? Well, it's not like he's going to win a zoning contest against them, so his new j.C doesn't really help there, and neither does 4C, per se. Lambda / Arakune / Rachel all got nerfed and that should be enough to help him out, and if not oh well, you can't have good matchups across the board. Just use good old solid play to get in.
Tofu Warrior Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 I think CS2 Hakumen is going to be dope. I'm still excited to play him.
mAc Chaos Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 Well, I zone with him all the time now as it is so :P Here's something I don't think we've ever discussed. What kind of blockstrings/pressure and frame traps do you guys use?
zdravkelja Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 I would like to know that too I'm not very good with that. Especially vs Tager, he always 360s me. Ok, I know I shouldn't be very close to him, I should troll him with 4C and j.C Without stars or 1 star I use various mixes of 2A,5A,2B,6A,6B. I use it to keep them ocupied while building meter, not going for damage yet. 5A > 2A > 2A > 6A > 2A > 6A > 6B 2A > 2A > 6B 5A > 2A > 2B 5A > 3C (into 2B > Gurren combo) 5A > throw 5A > 2B > hop > throw 2A > 2B > Kishuu > throw (once in a match move, they will predict it next time) 2B > Gurren (if they are pushed far) > 2A (or 6D,2D they will try to punish it) There are much combinations of 5A,2A,5B,2B,6A,6B... 2,3 stars Same as above, but now with Tsubaki, Renka and Hotaru added in a mix 5B > Tsubaki or Hotaru or Renka I don't jump when pressuring, ever, and I don't think I should...
psycofang2 Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 i use the same thing except i dont use 6B at the end of mines. its easy to read and IB abd D cancel puts me in a worse position. especially vs tager. thgey can 360 off 6B easily. and if they IB it (whick becomes -9) they hit you with B buster. ragnas. i 2A 2 times and get ID in the face. so i mix it up now. omfg zoner hakuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. >_<
zdravkelja Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 I forgot to add that 6B should not be used so much because they can punish you hard. Versus Tager you shouldn't be so close to actually use 6B. I'm really having problems with Tagers, I just don't know how to play vs graplers. I eat to much 360s and 720s. And the fact that Hakumen is slow doesn't help. And, the worst of all, I'm beeing purple 360 throwed. I just can't get used to combos into throw mechanic. That's the most retarded thing ever. Too much playing Guilty Gear I guess...
psycofang2 Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 well i can give you some info under my own experience: pretty much, watch his behaviores first, all tagers will start off the same (well almost all of them) and be defensive. ignore this, we already know this. watch what he/she does later in the match, how is this tager trying to get close? what does he do under our lolhaku pressure? how does this tager act in the air? does he super jump and mash JC to get closer? if its consistent then CH 2C, or FC hotaru him. if hes jumpig JC then barriering try jump and air grab. if hes just jumping (once) no super jump and barriering theres nothing you can do to stop the momentum unless you somehow, jump the exact moment he does and hit him, grab etc. do not stay to close, poke from max range, even with 2A yes. an IBing tager is a deadly tager. 4c and JC are good but it doesnt stop his momentum. learn what he does on the ground. if hes throwing out 5D>sledge you can easily 6D any of the sledges. if he 2Ds? use your 5D at long range, or 2D at short range. his pressure: good ons usually trap you into getting (non-purple) 360s. IB his pressure and either poke him out, TK hotaru, or D his obvious next move, reacting is better though. say you were grabbed into GF usually 1 of 4 things will occur. 1 they will attempt a 360 (yomi part 1) 2 they will attempt AC predicting you will jump. (yomi part 2) 3 sit and block waiting for an obvious reaction. 4 backdash into block or something else. you have the risks of using hotaru, it beats 360s but ACs invincibilty beats hotaru so it will whiff, putting you both in neut. if they block then its another mind game moment, they know we can jump off hotaru, but...will we jump or land? AC answers the jump but 360 answers the land. petty much its a quick choice. guaging you opponent is the best thing you can do vs tager. also if you are consistent with it 4C,5C spark volt. they cant do anything for the first 3 seconds out of the 5 or 6 that magnetism lasts. if you are maged then they usually become aggressive. using jD, 2D, 5D, and 4D to draw you closer. walking 360 A to pull you. normals and traps to 360 you. if they are in the air watch their second movement. it will come down to either jump and grab or 2C,hotaru them the reasons are stated earlier. stay on the ground. let him come to you. the more you work tager the better it is for you. i gotta cut this short but heres another tip: dont out yourself in a corner, especially when you are maged. backing up to avoid him may have serious drawbacks.
zdravkelja Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 Ok, thanks Does j.D work against Tag's j.2C?
psycofang2 Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 it does but you really gotta be quick because JD ends quickly and tagers j.2C is alot slower than it looks. you have to late jD it. otherwise Ibing blocking it puts tager at the disadvantage. unless they have meter. so do be careful.
SimpleKiss Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 Well, I zone with him all the time now as it is so :P Here's something I don't think we've ever discussed. What kind of blockstrings/pressure and frame traps do you guys use? 2A, 2A, Throw/Hop (hotaru/tsubaki/empty hop)/tk.tsubaki/renka/2b I still dont think Hakumen will just be degraded to zone. The wall bounce property leads me to believe they're letting us do more stuff off of Renka so we don't always have to go for kishuu/enma for BnB damage.
mAc Chaos Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 Well, I think we can do stuff in the corner. But I'm not sure about midscreen.
Spark Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 Haku vs Valk thread is unlocked. I'll write up some stuff about it later this week once I've played the match more.
Sophisticat Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Yay. Any first impressions, though? EDIT @Mixup convo: I read a Stunedge post where he said CS2 is currently more about zoning mid-screen to push into the corner, then big rape stuff from there. It makes sense since there's no oki outside of the corner in BB. The corner would now be where the big mind-games go on. Maybe CS2 will have some redeemable features after all.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Yay. Any first impressions, though? EDIT @Mixup convo: I read a Stunedge post where he said CS2 is currently more about zoning mid-screen to push into the corner, then big rape stuff from there. It makes sense since there's no oki outside of the corner in BB. The corner would now be where the big mind-games go on. Maybe CS2 will have some redeemable features after all. I love me some mind games, maybe I will stick to haku, I AM used to zoning since I mained Ky in GG.
psycofang2 Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 make up yo mind. the void is not wishy washy. it is an existence of infinite standing ground and strength no matter how bad it gets.
Spark Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Yay. Any first impressions, though? Valk seems to do everything better than Hakumen.
mAc Chaos Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 I stuck with him in CT > CS, I'll stay for CS2. I think my biggest moment of crisis was from the CS changes and I got over it. :P Or at least just treat this Haku as a different character than the CT Haku.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Valk seems to do everything better than Hakumen. Wow, mind doing a quick general impressions when you get the chance?
mAc Chaos Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 How close do I need to get to combo with 5C off 2D against Ragna and Lambda? Or all the characters in general? I literally miss it every time. I've just started doing 6C > Shippu since I know that will land and it baits bursts. The only one I've done it consistently against is Tager.
Shin ATproof Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Not far, I just push the stick in the direction of the opponent for like half a second at most. Heh, be sure to let go of the stick otherwise you'll get an unintentional 6C. Doing 6C > Shippu as a burst bait is pretty interesting though, I'm going to try that some time.
mAc Chaos Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 It works every time. :P They try to burst, you hold Shippu and hit them before they recover. Unfortunately it doesn't do CT damage though, so you actually will get more damage from the normal BnB combo, and for less stars to boot. But it's still worth it in certain situations. Actually, you'll probably get a similar amount of damage, but it's 4 stars VS 2.
Shin ATproof Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 The wall bounce property leads me to believe they're letting us do more stuff off of Renka so we don't always have to go for kishuu/enma for BnB damage. I can see the wallbounce with Renka and Hotaru opening up those opportunities but doesn't Renka lose some of its corner comboability since the second hit will be like the wallbounce from Gurren, right?
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 How close do I need to get to combo with 5C off 2D against Ragna and Lambda? Or all the characters in general? I literally miss it every time. I've just started doing 6C > Shippu since I know that will land and it baits bursts. The only one I've done it consistently against is Tager. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81UsUolYlBw @ 2:56 watch carefully to see how far they walk, 2d has VERY tight timing for its combos in cs compared to ct.
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