[CS1] Makoto vs. Hakumen

[farranpoison]

Alright. Posting this because I've had a long session with a Haku-men, and want to discuss some of my findings.

In short: Haku 4C and j.C destroy Makoto's approach options. Projectile is really bad to use too, most of the time Haku can just 4C the startup. Haku can just sit back, poke with 4C and j.C, gain meter, and wait for Makoto to come to him.

However, if Makoto can get in close, she'll have some advantage, but Haku can still IB counter/Hotaru to ruin your day.

I say it's 6.5-3.5 in Haku's favor, at worst, or 6-4 Haku at best.

Opinions?

[Stafy]

I've had experience with this matchup yesterday, and it wasn't really fun. 214s really close is a free counter for him, but you can use 214A~B to cross him up. Use this if you think he'll do a 4C or 6C.

I managed to get a lot of throw combos out though, but be aware that j.2A and j.5C beats most approaches. 6C can silence you too.

236A can work some wonders here. You can put them out if he approaches, and he can land in it. How I used it is that I just put it down, and he hit it, and he came to me. Get used to timing this, because it can land a fatal. Confirm the hit, and begin to get close.

You can parry his pokes, and as researched, if you do nothing, you'll just be invulnerable. If you're about mid-range, you can hit him, but be aware of his super meter. He can do his super counter. Best way to check this is to do just hold D and see if he does it. If he did it, congratulations, you got him to waste meter. With 4C and 6C doing it at the right time lands you a fatal. 4C extends his hitbox, so it stuns him. Don't rely on this too much, he has 2C.

Random Shippus can be dealt with any of the 5D moves, but I think you can 214A~B out of it to a counter combo. I think you could parry them too?

[Twin Rhapsody]

If you're in range, you can use 214A-D's invuln frames to counter his 4C or w/e poke you think he's going to use. The hitbox on 214A-D is pretty good, can snag him from further than you might think.

[whitevoid]

if he's trying to counter you off of 214A then just throw him.

[Kazuki Slice]

Against a counter you have a few options using 214A. 214A~B to go through him and start a combo. Or you can do 214A~D(lv3). Because more times than not, they are going to start the counter around the time the see asteroid vision activate. and they'll end up eat a lv.3 D

[HiagoX]

Before anything, don't use Break Shot. Hakumen can easily black hole it.

[Deox]

3C under haku's 4C ... win match!

But seriously mak's 3C is awesome for dodging a lot of attacks in the game... I've gone under jin's C uppercut

[Andarel]

Oh, and for the record - 632146D can't punish any of Hakumen's C moves except possibly 3C unless you time it so it goes off right when the hitbox is no longer active. Auto-black-holed. Boo...

[MisterBadguy]

Oh, and for the record - 632146D can't punish any of Hakumen's C moves except possibly 3C unless you time it so it goes off right when the hitbox is no longer active. Auto-black-holed. Boo...

Haven't seen that happen yet.. that's just... awful...((

Makoto does at least have the advantage of being able to interruppt blockstrings with 214x if you sence a D counter, so that's something right? \^o^/

[BoomBoxBeats]

Makoto's 3c is also good for Lambda's 5C most of the time I always hit before they do 5C->6C

[NickExtreme1]

Tested this same thing for Jin, and it applies to Hakumen as well.

Big Bang Smash vs. Yukikaze

If Yukikaze is used as a reaction to a point-blank LV1 and LV2 Big Bang Smash, Yukikaze will hit clean. However, if Yukikaze is used as a reaction to an point-blank LV3 Big Bang Smash, Makoto actually recovers from Big Bang Smash fast enough for you to super-jump over Yukikaze's counter assault, leaving Hakumen open for punishment.

If Yukikaze is used against any LV of Big Bang Smash from a distance, Makoto recovers from Big Bang Smash, leaving you the chance to super-jump over Yukikaze's counter assault, leaving Hakumen open for punishment. (Makoto's blue fist counts as a projectile, FYI)

Particle Flare (Initial) vs. Yukkikaze

Hakumen can react with Yukikaze against Particle Flare(Initial), but here's a little heads-up:

If you release a LV3 Particle Flare(Initial) against Yukikaze, Yukkikaze will hit clean. However, if you delay Particle Flare(Initial) to reach LV2 at it's second pass heading downwards, you can hit Hakumen after Yukikaze fails (counterhit), leaving you the rest of your Particle Flare combo to complete.

NOTE: This is all when Hakumen REACTS with Yukikaze against Particle Flare(Initial) not when he throws out Yukikaze and you react with Particle Flare(Initial). The same method of delaying your hit to a downgraded LV2 will still work out, though. This applies to Hakumen's Astral as well.

Speaking of Hakumen's Astral, similar to Yukikaze , if Hakumen reacts against a point-blank LV1 and LV2 Big Bang Smash, Hakumen's Astral will hit clean. However, a point-blank LV3 Big Bang Smash will actually counterhit Hakumen's Astral. Also, any LV of Big Bang Smash from a distance will counterhit Hakumen's Astral.

[MisterBadguy]

Good shit Nick.

That's an extremely helpful post in a BB character matchup forum. Does this mean the end of days? o_o

[Halcyone3]

Also, any LV of Big Bang Smash from a distance will counterhit Hakumen's Astral.

i lol'd, i wanna do this so bad now

[HiagoX]

Good shit Nick.

That's an extremely helpful post in a BB character matchup forum. Does this mean the end of days? o_o

Probably, I'm surprised myself.

[Desov2]

So 3C goes under hakumen's 5A, 5B, 4C, and if you go 3C on reaction, 6C. He can hit you out of it using 6C if he waits a bit, but there's a good chance you can zip by him for the counterhit.

3C is my hero in this match-up. I still can't figure out a good way to react to airdash >j.C for some reason. Can't you block it and throw for the counter?

[Twin Rhapsody]

So 3C goes under hakumen's 5A, 5B, 4C, and if you go 3C on reaction, 6C. He can hit you out of it using 6C if he waits a bit, but there's a good chance you can zip by him for the counterhit.

3C is my hero in this match-up. I still can't figure out a good way to react to airdash >j.C for some reason. Can't you block it and throw for the counter?

I'd think you could 6A, it has air-invuln and can combo straight into 2D on air hit.

[Facidi]

This is coming from a Haku-men player.

Don't spam 3C, it's really obvious and punishable into his basic BnBs. I see people doing this all the time online like it's the holy grail, hoping to get under my 4C. Know this, if the Haku is familiar with this match-up he will rarely use it since j.C will do the same w/o the recovery. You're giving him a free combo that could cause you to lose a huge chunk of life and possibly the match, since he can turtle all match long versus Makoto

[excelence]

I've quite a few match up with decent Haku last week, this match up isn't as bad as i thought ... 1st thing to note it's almost impossible to react on his 4c with Mako 3c(unless they spam it >_>) ... so don't, air approach is lol. this far looks bad but Haku is also doesn't really have any save approach to rushing Mako. Fairly good moves to start his pressure on mid range is Kishu or Gurren but it's also a waste of resource for him and most of his overhead is very slow except u know which does hurt a Lot... but if u can space your self on fairly nice spot about half of screen u can just chicken block all day, but don't block his 6c... that's one of her entry ticket, when you're in ... Throw a lot to condition him and there's goes the Zanshin ... Next to watch out is the gap on your block string, his 3c is retarded fast, and ch will open his ridiculous combo setup, be very cautious ... about his Jump in, indeed Makoto 6a is really good, but i'll suggest u do parry 1st since he also has option to zanshin your 6a or j214b to Fatal you, but space counter isn't too bad either, u can rush down him after

[Sophisticat]

Another Haku with advice...

Imo, Makoto is gimped here. I usually feel like I can control all space in this match, so your approach is limited. Don't jump in like a loon, either, I can hit you for 4k with just 2 stars. Also, I can j.D your anti-airs if you're being obvious.

Throws don't condition against counters because I use them on reaction (i.e., if you're being predictable, you're dead). And since I reaction stuff, then if I anticipate your next move, you're still dead. Remember, Haku specializes in taking apart other's offense.

That said, Makoto's best bet is to mix it up as much as possible. Don't use blockstrings with gaps because I'll TK Hotaru or 1f counter. Block if you know there's a gap, and maybe I'll mess up and you can CH me.

Although, I personally really don't see what Makoto can do in this match that doesn't carry some sort of risk (granted, I don't know her all that well). Haku is simply superior in everything here. Play it smart, bait counters/retaliations, and don't be predictable is the best advice I can give.

[seyu]

ive noticed that, too. especially those 3Cs from haku. theres rarely anyone good enough to do TK hotaru inbetween my blockstrings.

anyway, coming from above is mostly a good idea, hakus only options there are block and counter if you go in with j2C. this gets predictable pretty fast though. against high jump ins makotos jB works wonders sometimes as long as you stay underneath haku.

comet canon is dumb in most situations since its stupidly easy to cut...

this matchup really is shit, especially if youre the one whos forced to approach and haku just sits there building meter...

[Magic Fanatic]

From my experience from playing with a Hakumen today...

Random BBS is a worse idea than usual. I'll see Hakumen air-dash, put in 632146D L3... And then get countered by a j.D from half a screen away. Even a black hole would have been a better result.

Makoto's 3C isn't particularly smart while Haku's on the ground, but if he tries to approach you from the air, if you time it right, her 3C will go under just about ANYTHING aerial that he tries to throw out, and then gets kicked down while landing. Her 3C seems to have a property where it avoids anything that doesn't hit low (and all aerials I'm thinking only hit high), so it's slightly more useful here.

[seyu]

that about her 3C is right, but a very low j.2C from hakomen can still hit you. its not to dangerous though if you dont do your 3C to late.

also i got into that situation where i got my BBS countered. Thought id hit him, but he jD and i just thought "hm not bad", but then his counter actually hit me and i die miserablyQ_Q

its not even that random BBSes are bad, but his air dash is completely safe against BBS since he can allways cancel it with jD.

other then that haku seems to be a good victim to mixup with 3C and 2C since most people online use D to early and you get a free CH or FC..which is good:3

[SolAscension]

for the record DP on yukikaze = safe

[Magic Fanatic]

On unfair: Hakumen's slash works on Bursts.

Geez, this matchup is looking worse and worse for the poor Squirrel Girl.

[Tritan]

A lot of haku's move scrape the ground and will catch your 3c. Be extremely careful with this move or risk losing 3-5k every attempt. >< My buddy's haku is pretty damn good at catching my 3C's sadly. lol.