[CS2] Litchi Changelog

[lunaris]

You do realize that your character's oki game is a big reason you're winning, not your own skill, right? If my character could just toss out a super at the end of a combo and get 4-5 chances to do either low or overheads while the opponent is sitting there forced to block, I would be winning a lot more, too. And no, it wouldn't be attributed to my own skill, either, except the skill involved with picking the right character at the select screen.

Thank god your characters oki game got "owned" (as in, back to the level, and probably still better than most current character's oki game) because it was some of the most retarded shit to pop up in any of the fighting games I've ever played.

i heard that if you use a low tier character, you can win without actually winning. sounds like a good deal!

screw sportsmanship! "i lost because of my mistakes or a strength of my opponent that i failed to compensate for?" what kind of old fashioned garbage is that? you don't have to make mistakes to lose against a tier whore. they just whore you to death with their whore magic.

in any case, has anyone in this thread said that litchi being nerfed is anything but a good thing? this is probably a hopeless request, but can we cut it out with the negativity and mentalities borne from unsportsmanlike philosophies, regardless of whether it's just trolling or not? it's making this thread unpleasant to look at(it is greatly against my better judgment even to make this post, but it's clear these exchanges aren't going to stop), as much as i would love to discuss litchi's actual changes.

in the end i think we all want a balanced character, and agree that currently, litchi is not well balanced. ideally, this wouldn't mean completely relearning her before we've had much of a chance to use her, but change does typically mean at least some level of relearning.

[HeartNana]

No, I'm well aware that regardless of character, win is a win, and loss is a loss. I actually enjoyed the old blazblue because I was able to beat top tiers with a mid tier.

But to have the best oki in the game toned down called "being pwned" is just straight up silly, imo.

As I said, your opponent had a better strategy if you lost with a low tier because they were smarter than you at the character select screen. And yeah, in tourney and casuals and stuff, you should have good sportsmanship because you know what youre getting yourself into. You know that the second you sit down to play someone, that theres a chance theyll pick the best character. But for a good Tager player to lose to an equally skilled bang, you really think the Tager player is thinking "i lost because of my mistakes or a strength of my opponent that i failed to compensate for"? I think its more like "oh well, thats what happens"

I mean, Litchi does take skill to use, I can't use the character worth a damn. And I don't hate the fact that she's top tier, nor do I care that anyone even uses her because of it, but it's the ignorance that I don't approve of. It's specific parts of the character that take very little skill to win with in this iteration. The dumbest thing she has is her wakeup, because that's why its "one combo into death" with her. So for him to point out one of the main reasons why a completely mid tier character in the last iteration is now #1, and say that it's getting "owned", with the indication that they don't understand why thats happening (unless I'm reading the usage of the psyduck smiley wrong, in which case, it could just be a redundant statement, as in "Litchi's oki game is no longer going to be as strong as it is now") doesn't seem right.

[Lord Knight]

You know as well as I do she'll theoretically fall some, that's about it if CS2 changes stay in comparison to all other character changes.

Who cares about "theory" for a tier for a game that we can't play yet.

[Diveman]

You know guys...litchi was crap in the first CS loketests...it took them 3 loketests to make her good and then top...Im not gonna complain until I see the final product

[lunaris]

snip

i'm glad to see you took the joke well.

i'd say the psyduck was more about the severity of the change, as this "nerf" feels more like it would more or less completely remove both litchi's corner carrying and corner oki game(not that a nerf of some kind isn't warranted). i'm personally psyducking just trying to figure out how we could even get the 2d corner oki/traps we had in CT, unless the combo actually starts in the corner.

not that litchi should require corner pressure, but it has been a large part of her game/playstyle since CT(someone correct me if i'm wrong). i suspect the reason most people are troubled is that it's not just combos and statistics like damage that are changing, but the general end result of the combos(for all we can tell) and thus her playstyle would change. not to take a pedantic tone, but many people play a character solely because they enjoy how the character plays/its general strategy, and thus this is a concern.

all that being said, there's not much point in analyzing the changes too in depth until we can tell what they're thinking when we see the changes they make in the next loke test(s), but it's surprising they made some of these changes when it seems like there are many other options available which would still do the trick while not having as much impact on her combos and(seemingly) playstyle. even then, things are far from final so there's little point in raising a storm.

i'm satisfied so long as the game is well balanced and litchi is entertaining.

[HeartNana]

i'm glad to see you took the joke well.

i'd say the psyduck was more about the severity of the change, as this "nerf" feels more like it would more or less completely remove both litchi's corner carrying and corner oki game(not that a nerf of some kind isn't warranted). i'm personally psyducking just trying to figure out how we could even get the 2d corner oki/traps we had in CT, unless the combo actually starts in the corner.

not that litchi should require corner pressure, but it has been a large part of her game/playstyle since CT(someone correct me if i'm wrong). i suspect the reason most people are troubled is that it's not just combos and statistics like damage that are changing, but the general end result of the combos(for all we can tell) and thus her playstyle would change. not to take a pedantic tone, but many people play a character solely because they enjoy how the character plays/its general strategy, and thus this is a concern.

all that being said, there's not much point in analyzing the changes too in depth until we can tell what they're thinking when we see the changes they make in the next loke test(s), but it's surprising they made some of these changes when it seems like there are many other options available which would still do the trick while not having as much impact on her combos and(seemingly) playstyle. even then, things are far from final so there's little point in raising a storm.

i'm satisfied so long as the game is well balanced and litchi is entertaining.

Good post. I agree on all points.

[CrazyApe]

No, I'm well aware that regardless of character, win is a win, and loss is a loss. I actually enjoyed the old blazblue because I was able to beat top tiers with a mid tier.

But to have the best oki in the game toned down called "being pwned" is just straight up silly, imo.

As I said, your opponent had a better strategy if you lost with a low tier because they were smarter than you at the character select screen. And yeah, in tourney and casuals and stuff, you should have good sportsmanship because you know what youre getting yourself into. You know that the second you sit down to play someone, that theres a chance theyll pick the best character. But for a good Tager player to lose to an equally skilled bang, you really think the Tager player is thinking "i lost because of my mistakes or a strength of my opponent that i failed to compensate for"? I think its more like "oh well, thats what happens"

I mean, Litchi does take skill to use, I can't use the character worth a damn. And I don't hate the fact that she's top tier, nor do I care that anyone even uses her because of it, but it's the ignorance that I don't approve of. It's specific parts of the character that take very little skill to win with in this iteration. The dumbest thing she has is her wakeup, because that's why its "one combo into death" with her. So for him to point out one of the main reasons why a completely mid tier character in the last iteration is now #1, and say that it's getting "owned", with the indication that they don't understand why thats happening (unless I'm reading the usage of the psyduck smiley wrong, in which case, it could just be a redundant statement, as in "Litchi's oki game is no longer going to be as strong as it is now") doesn't seem right.

haha calm down man just a joke but seriously we shouldnt Have to end a combo with Chun tho... but i don't really care anyway until CSII comes out

plus the psyduck was used for a sarcastic reason... you know... stating the obvious

[HeartNana]

word, I was overreacting, I'll admit it.

[KD]

You know guys...litchi was crap in the first CS loketests...it took them 3 loketests to make her good and then top...Im not gonna complain until I see the final product

Huh? I don't remember her being crap or even reading anything negative about her when it was time for the 1st loke impressions and such, I don't remember huge changes for her in the 2nd loketestm and it seemed like people just stopped giving info for her by the 3rd loketest. It seemed like there was nowhere near as many people that were familiar with her trying her out compared to the other characters as well. I dunno maybe my memory is just shit lol but only thing I remember hearing negative about her was them changing tsubame so it was harder to combo and mixed reception on the adjusting of 6428C.

[Lord Knight]

What happened was people were freaking out cause they couldn't mash out dp into 3k > corner > mixup.

I saw the changes and thought she got buffed pretty heavily, and then look at the end result. . .

[KD]

Yeah, so we do seem to be remembering the same thing about her from that period.

Yeah no easy tsubame follow up stuff, no longer doing 3C[m] [d][d] combos, and the little changes to how the staff launches after being places after certain moves(can't remember how we refer to this now lol, you know how it either flies horizontal or goes in the vertical boomerang like path). The last two shouldn't really be a damn issue because it's a new damn iteration and combos tend to change when that happens, and f staff pattern you can just throw kotes in there to get the one you want anyway (which was made even easier then because 6C could cancel into specials, Oh sup easy kote access and more combos as well with that change)

Then there were the other things(might as well just call them buffs) like Itsuu stance cancel, ItsuuB actually working in combos and not just from CH(lol didn't really matter that much in the long), IppatsuB and C being changed to hatsu and chun pretty much making the whole "5B 2x/2C itsuuA kote riichiiA~A-into some shit for high damage" very fucking easy and like impossible to screw up compared to CT, then the new 4D and 6D which people were still playing around with.

After the first loke it just seemed like tsubame becoming easier to combo after but still not as easy or worthwhile as CT, and CT combos kinda coming back or at least easier to perform than they were in the 1st loke. Edit: Maybe I'm just sleepy or whatever but didn't they also make tsubame RC'able in one of the loketests at some point?

[Kenny tuty]

we didn't have ittsuC-chun combo if I remember right.

and DP got nerfed which was big deal back that time since DP-6C was the closure for most of combos.

[Cornix]

Well for the most part from what I can see we're having the exact same reaction to this as we did to the CS loketest... (OHGAWDTSUBAMEDOESN'TCOMBOANYMORE )

I'm slightly scared that litchi will change from 'carry to corner, oki in corner, try to keep them in corner'... that really was what drew me to the character in CT and had me keep playing.. but yes heartnana, nerfs to the current cs litchi are entirely warranted, and they won't stop me from playing litchi as my main (really heavy nerfs may have me spend some more time with secondary characters...).

I would just like to have LITCHI back.. not another character with litchi's model... cuz if they make her into like... I dunno.. full rushdown like your noel is.. she wouldn't be litchi anymore and I would feel entirely justified in switching characters.

[Chun]

Who cares about "theory" for a tier for a game that we can't play yet.

Stop riding my ass about what everyone else is also commenting on, are threads not for speculation/discussion?

And obviously yes, since this is the first loctest not all revolver action paths and possibilities are final because no one has had the ability to play the "full game" yet. But no good overhead combo save for Jump-Ins and Rapid 6A is already a big change from CS, you can agree this much. It's back to the spacing for gaps method of attacking in CT if current changes stay, and the fact that wallbounce counter hit no longer exists is also slightly disconcerting (But akin to CT). CH Ryuuisou wallbounce staying is good news if anything, Dacid and I agree that it probably shouldn't have auto-wallbounced in the first place for a semi-fullscreen distortion. Maybe there could be some sort of staffless combo that could create good damage by itself without assistance from the staff call back.

[TeeJay]

we didn't have ittsuC-chun combo if I remember right.

and DP got nerfed which was big deal back that time since DP-6C was the closure for most of combos.

If I remember correctly, I was doing an itsuu C-chun-3c combo but it wasn't quite the same. Definitely not that itsuu ender stuff. Well, I'm one of those scrubs that can't even land ippatsu A in an itsuu a combo so what do I know. I'm sort of anxious just to see how she changes be it good or bad.

[Zenmetsu]

The post lengths in this thread are huge.

[ATGMantenbo]

I know right?

anybody know when the next loketest will take place?

[ril213]

Next loketest from reading on the BB jpn site is in October 9-10.

[The Noble Clap]

*Wake up*

Clap: ugh let's go look at dustloop.

*goes to litchi board*

Clap: hey look its her loke test thread.

*reads changes*

*pause*

Clap:

YES!

YES!

THIS IS DELISIOUS!!!!

[Nakkiel]

You should try posting something semi-useful.

[The Noble Clap]

Well, since you asked so nicely.

I don't play her.

But she should still be able to do around 4k somehow, which is good.

You just won't be able to face raep as well.

I am not M.Bison in the morning either.

Nerfs suck.

[Cornix]

The post lengths in this thread are huge.

I really hope this is sarcasm. xD

[Dangle]

Stop riding my ass about what everyone else is also commenting on, are threads not for speculation/discussion?

And obviously yes, since this is the first loctest not all revolver action paths and possibilities are final because no one has had the ability to play the "full game" yet. But no good overhead combo save for Jump-Ins and Rapid 6A is already a big change from CS, you can agree this much. It's back to the spacing for gaps method of attacking in CT if current changes stay, and the fact that wallbounce counter hit no longer exists is also slightly disconcerting (But akin to CT). CH Ryuuisou wallbounce staying is good news if anything, Dacid and I agree that it probably shouldn't have auto-wallbounced in the first place for a semi-fullscreen distortion. Maybe there could be some sort of staffless combo that could create good damage by itself without assistance from the staff call back.

her damage doesn't need buffing on staffless combo's, her character design is ment to depend on the staff in the first place. If the current changes stay then the spacing for gaps method isn't a problem, thats when litchi wasn't faceroll win.

[Shining Aquas]

Seeing all the nerfs is actually encouraging me to want to play her more.

I think they may have made her more fun to play by the sound of what sort of changes were made.

I don't think I completely agree with the 6B/j.C counterhit bounce change. It seemed like it was kind of important for punishing certain characters for getting impatient. Maybe it's not as bad as it sounds, we'll see.

[Diveman]

Honestly, I dont really care about damage nerf.

Litchi was never a heavy hitter character to begin with, the only thing I care is her Oki game. so if arcsys is smart (they are...I guess) they will leave that part untouched or just different.