HiagoX Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 I'm more surprised about Carl, actually. He was mostly nerfed, wasn't he? Maybe the 3D buff went really well for him.
Devdan Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 If it works like it sounds like it works, it makes up for the clap nerf. They'd better keep him strong, I was just trying to get back into him, but I'm super rusty. I can't even sandwich loop consistently anymore.
Spirit Juice Posted October 10, 2010 Author Posted October 10, 2010 I think I figured out what they're trying to do with Hakumen here. Everyone assumed since Haku might be too strong that they would try to rein in his zoning, but they've decided to go all in on it instead. They made his C moves even faster, so his zoning is going to be stronger. At the same time they're giving his specials wallbounce properties to prevent his old combos (except apparently 6C) and his counters are just to knock people off him so he can't get damage off it. Haku will zone you out with tons of pokes but if he hits you with any specials or counters, it won't do that much damage but will give him full screen reset. He won't have that much damage, and he'll be even worse up close, but his zoning is better. He gains stars slower so that means he'll have to be less reliant on his non-C moves too... So basically they want to make him Lambda with a long sword. That's the only sense I can make out of this anyway. If it's not this then I have no idea and they might as well be throwing stuff at a dart board. :P Thanks for typing out exactly what I was thinking but was too lazy to type out myself. I actually kind of like this change, since it feels like that's the way Hakumen's play style was leaning toward anyways. Right now, Lambda is the only true zoning character in the game. I suppose Hakumen will join her in CS2.
AdamNW Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 Okay I'm going to wake up tomorrow and this won't be here. Fuck my life it's still here. w/e though this bullshit better be fixed next week.
Edge Reaper Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 I just went through the full 28 pages of this stuff... I think I just died a little bit on the inside... Time to say my goodbye's to Hazama. Was learning Mu-12 anyway....
Varamathras Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 the chicken little forums God forbid if the sky actually starts falling. Metaphorically speaking, of course.
Spirit Juice Posted October 10, 2010 Author Posted October 10, 2010 Skye stop posting stupid shit. This is your only warning.
Augxst Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 tager's 5C is useless, lol. well hope they put the Gatling back
Justice7541 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I just went through the full 28 pages of this stuff... I think I just died a little bit on the inside... Time to say my goodbye's to Hazama. Was learning Mu-12 anyway.... Has Hazama actually been confirmed to not have gotten any new replacement combos out of 3C floating or are people just overreacting because they are unimaginative and don't want to face the prospect of thinking up new combos?
skd Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Has Hazama actually been confirmed to not have gotten any new replacement combos out of 3C floating or are people just overreacting because they are unimaginative and don't want to face the prospect of thinking up new combos? the 3C float still give ground oki right? isnt it like, he cant combo at far range anymore but can still be in your face and get "oki"? But the thing is, i cant think of any combos he can do at close range without 3C
Achtzehn Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 tager's 5C is useless, lol. well hope they put the Gatling back Tager's 5c is his best mid range poke when the opponent isn't magnetized. not to mention its useful as hell and essential in combos since it links to 6a which leads to collider pretty much everytime. Pretty sure you can still gatling 5c to 6a, just that it doesn't combo anymore.
Varamathras Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Tager's 5c is his best mid range poke when the opponent isn't magnetized. not to mention its useful as hell and essential in combos since it links to 6a which leads to collider pretty much everytime. Pretty sure you can still gatling 5c to 6a, just that it doesn't combo anymore. I thought that 5c only combos into 6a on counterhit.
natearistata Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 They're talking about things like Spark Bolt>5C>6A, or CH4D>5C>6A, or pretty much every combo that starts with the opponent in the air. Edit: Also don't see how that suddenly makes 5C useless, since almost all of those combos can just be done as 5C>AC. The only things you really won't be able to do without it are the 5C>6A>2C>held AC combos.
Augxst Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 They're talking about things like Spark Bolt>5C>6A, or CH4D>5C>6A, or pretty much every combo that starts with the opponent in the air. Edit: Also don't see how that suddenly makes 5C useless, since almost all of those combos can just be done as 5C>AC. The only things you really won't be able to do without it are the 5C>6A>2C>held AC combos. I guess your right I should know better, I am a tager player after all. I guess this means shorter combos
King Tomahawk Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 For Ragna, 3C is still techable? 5D doesn't pickup from the ground still? Inferno divider gets no wall bounce still? Beleil edge gets minimal combo after still... Where does he get his damage from now? Also the whole Tsubaki nerf... why she kinda sucks now. What does this help. If she played the same way she does in CS while everyone gets nerfed she still wont be over mid tier.
Osuna Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 They're talking about things like Spark Bolt>5C>6A, or CH4D>5C>6A, or pretty much every combo that starts with the opponent in the air. Edit: Also don't see how that suddenly makes 5C useless, since almost all of those combos can just be done as 5C>AC. The only things you really won't be able to do without it are the 5C>6A>2C>held AC combos.You're not supposed to 5C 6A in any of those combos anyway, if you can help it. You loses some ender options after the second collider because of the extra proration from 6A. I forget how the damage works, but because his collider gets prorated from it and that's the biggest chunk of damage in those combos, it could actually do more to omit it. If you want to get all of your ender options you generally speaking can't use 6A. Even in fatal counter combos you'd only use it 1 time in the combo usually and if they buffed some of tagers other stuff even a little it wouldn't be missed all that much. In CT it was an Extremely valuable combo tool, but it gets hit by his super mega low character rate now it's kinda meh in combos. Aside from some situations in which the might be barely out of reach for collider I don't think it's a huge deal in CS. That said, why would they get rid of it? Were it's new traits so strong that it actually let him do something cool off 5C?
MiraclePizza Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Just a few things I want to point out if it hasn't been already. Noel: + bloom trigger slides opponents hit on ground I'm not sure if this is really a buff unless it does either one of two things: 1. Allow for combo afterwards midscreen. 2. Activate 22B and 22C (which I assume it would?) The old Bloom Trigger wallbounced and the typical followup for it in the corner was 6C. If it got changed to groundslide then the new followup would be 2B2C and the addition of 2B just ends up prorating the combo more, doing only 220 base damage and having 84 P2 therefore nerfing corner damage... though of course this is only speaking in CS1 terms. I think this one could go either way since it might give you ways to combo from it that you couldn't do so before when you're near the corner. Tager: - 5D only pulls opponent during active frames As above, I would argue that this change affects the move ambiguously rather than just being an outright nerf. One of the problems associated with the current 5D is that due to its slow startup, magnetism before the move becomes active could become a liability. Top example: Ragna dashing 5B with magnetism assist. If the move only pulls during its active frames, though, then at least that portion of the two-way street that is magnetism can, on paper, become far less of a problem since your opponent can no longer manipulate the magnetism pull for a mobility boost. Again, let's use Ragna 5B as an example. If 5D only pulls during active frames, then Ragna can no longer punish its startup of 5D with a magnetism-boosted dashing 5B (assuming he's can't get in range in time without the help of magnetism in the first place). Now there's a good chance that the move will trade instead of getting beaten out since the pull only happens during active frames. Just my two cents on the matter because I feel that the + and - can be misleading in these cases where the change is arguably ambiguous.
Henaki Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 They're talking about things like Spark Bolt>5C>6A, or CH4D>5C>6A, or pretty much every combo that starts with the opponent in the air. Edit: Also don't see how that suddenly makes 5C useless, since almost all of those combos can just be done as 5C>AC. The only things you really won't be able to do without it are the 5C>6A>2C>held AC combos. 5c 6a chain makes certain (specific) combos possible... its pretty useful. its also a decent blockstring and good anti-backdash tagging.
Justice7541 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 For Ragna, 3C is still techable? 5D doesn't pickup from the ground still? Inferno divider gets no wall bounce still? Beleil edge gets minimal combo after still... Where does he get his damage from now? Also the whole Tsubaki nerf... why she kinda sucks now. What does this help. If she played the same way she does in CS while everyone gets nerfed she still wont be over mid tier. 5B (5C) 6A sj.C j.D JC j.C Berial 5D Inferno sounds pretty legit to me. Doesn't deal 4k with corner reset but hey I think you'll live.
McArthur Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 For Ragna, 3C is still techable? 5D doesn't pickup from the ground still? Inferno divider gets no wall bounce still? Beleil edge gets minimal combo after still... Where does he get his damage from now? Also the whole Tsubaki nerf... why she kinda sucks now. What does this help. If she played the same way she does in CS while everyone gets nerfed she still wont be over mid tier. i think they'd want ragna to rely on BK for more dmg? not sure , oh well final test/patch change will be the most imprtant anyway
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 My problem with it is 5C 6A jc j.B is impossible now.
natearistata Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Can't Tager just 5C > collider? They're talking about things like Spark Bolt>5C>6A, or CH4D>5C>6A, or pretty much every combo that starts with the opponent in the air. Edit: Also don't see how that suddenly makes 5C useless, since almost all of those combos can just be done as 5C>AC. The only things you really won't be able to do without it are the 5C>6A>2C>held AC combos. ee
Justice7541 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Hey guys remember when Jin was looking like he was getting nothing but buffs in CS1 loketests despite already being nearly top tier, and everyone else was somehow getting nerfs? I remember laughing so hard when I saw the Jin section of the final changelist.
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