[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[W.E.M.P.]

Why does hakumen have to look like such a hardass..?

I am trying to live up to my weeaboo moe standards and learn platinum, and it's hard when everytime I go to character select I say

"OH SHI ------- Hakumen is in this game, that's right!"

-_-

Also why does japan have cooler color selects than us? I suppose they'll be released eventually.

[psycofang2]

Why does hakumen have to look like such a hardass..?

I am trying to live up to my weeaboo moe standards and learn platinum, and it's hard when everytime I go to character select I say

"OH SHI ------- Hakumen is in this game, that's right!"

-_-

Also why does japan have cooler color selects than us? I suppose they'll be released eventually.

what do you mean? we should all have the same colors. you need to unlock those said colors via gallery mode.

[W.E.M.P.]

ahhh gotcha. Thanks :3

[Kanashimi]

Does anyone have any tips on auto pliot Haku-men in my case blocking with his drive and I find that I do the same combos all the time... With no mix-ups.. Also I suck at following the second j.2c after the first..

Edited March 20, 2012 by Kanashimi

[dioxideUniversa]

If by "blocking with his drive" you mean "using drive in place of blocking" or abusing it in general to poor effect, a quick way to learn is to simply unbind D. That said, the general consensus it's best to use parry only in reaction to things. Avoid guesses. High level players will have varying styles between never parries and goes for parries a lot, but you have to be smart about it. If you're going to abuse any of them, it would probably be 5D or Yukikaze because they have the longest window of active frames, but you still have to be careful as they are easy to punish for big damage if baited (also, 5D doesn't start on frame 1 like the other parries.)

What are the same combos you are doing all the time? Clarification needed here. There are a set of combos you should know for given situations, but it's still basically "doing the same combos all the time." If you're just having issues with autopiloting non-ideal combos, just grind the new optimal combo in training mode off various starters/situations and then make a conscious effort to try and use them in live play with the goal of "I need to find x starter so I can do y combo." Eventually it will come as naturally as whatever old combo you used to be doing.

Mixups are sticky because you have to be much more deliberate than most characters due to reliance on meter to make mixups happen. Check here for ideas. If you aren't doing a lot of throw mixups, Hakumen can get good mileage off that (especially in the corner.)

I can only assume "2nd j.2c" is referring to the corner combo. If you're dropping the 2c after it, it's because you're hitting j.2c too early and they are out of hitstun by the time the 2c goes active. If you're dropping the actual j.2c, it's because you're hitting it too late and you're landing before the active frames come out. It also depends on what combo you are doing. If you aren't super jumping after your 2cs, a lot of times the j.2c can whiff. Certain combos like the throw combo have normal jump 2cs in them.

Auto-piloting in general: make an effort to try and think about what you're doing and why. Save replays and ask questions when stuff did not go the way you expected it to.

Edited March 20, 2012 by dioxideUniversa

[Kanashimi]

If by "blocking with his drive" you mean "using drive in place of blocking" or abusing it in general to poor effect, a quick way to learn is to simply unbind D. That said, the general consensus it's best to use parry only in reaction to things. Avoid guesses. High level players will have varying styles between never parries and goes for parries a lot, but you have to be smart about it. If you're going to abuse any of them, it would probably be 5D or Yukikaze because they have the longest window of active frames, but you still have to be careful as they are easy to punish for big damage if baited (also, 5D doesn't start on frame 1 like the other parries.)

What are the same combos you are doing all the time? Clarification needed here. There are a set of combos you should know for given situations, but it's still basically "doing the same combos all the time." If you're just having issues with autopiloting non-ideal combos, just grind the new optimal combo in training mode off various starters/situations and then make a conscious effort to try and use them in live play with the goal of "I need to find x starter so I can do y combo." Eventually it will come as naturally as whatever old combo you used to be doing.

Mixups are sticky because you have to be much more deliberate than most characters due to reliance on meter to make mixups happen. Check here for ideas. If you aren't doing a lot of throw mixups, Hakumen can get good mileage off that (especially in the corner.)

I can only assume "2nd j.2c" is referring to the corner combo. If you're dropping the 2c after it, it's because you're hitting j.2c too early and they are out of hitstun by the time the 2c goes active. If you're dropping the actual j.2c, it's because you're hitting it too late and you're landing before the active frames come out. It also depends on what combo you are doing. If you aren't super jumping after your 2cs, a lot of times the j.2c can whiff. Certain combos like the throw combo have normal jump 2cs in them.

Auto-piloting in general: make an effort to try and think about what you're doing and why. Save replays and ask questions when stuff did not go the way you expected it to.

Well in terms of using his drive instead of blocking I use 5D mainly, 6D for quicker counters and a blockstring baited Yukikaze e.g. 2B>5A>5A>2A>Yukikaze but one or two matches I usually figure iut my opponents style and of course their probely figure out mine but even when I do diffrent mix ups it feels the the same and I get punished for it.

Well I try to use Gurren and Kishu to rushdown forcing them block into the corner, from there depending how much magatama I have I tend to use a Renka ( Throw>5C (or 6C)>Renka (Kishu>Enma) >2C>5B>j.c>j2A>jC as the main corner combo, Mid-screen 5A>5A>2B>Gurren>Throw (or Yukikaze> Gurren>6C end)>Kishu>2C>j.c>j2A>jC The main probelm is that sometimes I auto-pliot these, Drive instead of blocking and not being able to hit that second j2A, because either I can't air dash or when I do my oppnent is out of hit stun so I does connect normally.

[mAc Chaos]

If you want ideas on how to handle people up close, try watching some Haku vids and do what they do.

[Kanashimi]

If you want ideas on how to handle people up close, try watching some Haku vids and do what they do.

That not the probelm foe me it's about defending that's the probelm, attcking no probelm it's use of Haku's drive and blocking right with him.

[mAc Chaos]

Well, I mean for help on mixups.

Watching videos is a good idea in general. You can see how they might deal with similar tactics and you might see a way of dealing with it that you didn't think of.

[Kanashimi]

Well, I mean for help on mixups.

Watching videos is a good idea in general. You can see how they might deal with similar tactics and you might see a way of dealing with it that you didn't think of.

One the best Haku-men vids I've is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPscCmFWm30

[dioxideUniversa]

One the best Haku-men vids I've is this:

He was talking about match videos, ideally JP ones since they have a greater volume of high-level players than non JP vids. We have a thread where a bunch of match vids are stored.

Well in terms of using his drive instead of blocking I use 5D mainly, 6D for quicker counters and a blockstring baited Yukikaze e.g. 2B>5A>5A>2A>Yukikaze but one or two matches I usually figure iut my opponents style and of course their probely figure out mine but even when I do diffrent mix ups it feels the the same and I get punished for it.

You can use parries in blockstrings, but it's sort of a gimmick. Smart use/understanding of the opponent/yomi can create rewards, but all they have to do is keep blocking and you get punished for large damage. There are far safer ways to construct pressure strings. Learning to use parries effectively in defense would be something like 6Ding an overhead that you reacted to/had reasonable certainty was coming instead of blocking it, for an example. Instant block parry can also be powerful, but you have to know the frame data and the opponent's pressure tools/tendencies to make this work out well. You don't have to use parry to have a good defense, either (Spark for example.)

Well I try to use Gurren and Kishu to rushdown forcing them block into the corner, from there depending how much magatama I have I tend to use a Renka ( Throw>5C (or 6C)>Renka (Kishu>Enma) >2C>5B>j.c>j2A>jC as the main corner combo, Mid-screen 5A>5A>2B>Gurren>Throw (or Yukikaze> Gurren>6C end)>Kishu>2C>j.c>j2A>jC The main probelm is that sometimes I auto-pliot these, Drive instead of blocking and not being able to hit that second j2A, because either I can't air dash or when I do my oppnent is out of hit stun so I does connect normally.

Still having some issues understanding what you're trying to say here, sorry. For combos, at least, as I said it's simply best to hit up training mode and grind Haku's bnbs. The Yukikaze combo for example (If you did indeed mean simply Yukikaze > Gurren > 6c) would be Yukikaze > Kishuu > 2c > sj.2a > AD j.2a > j.C. If you are using Yukikaze to escape the corner, instead you do Yukikaze > Kishuu > IAD > j.2a > j.2c > 2c > sj.2a > AD j.2a > j.C > 5c > 3c.

I'm having some issues going through your notation, but in general with blockstrings, a good idea as Mac said is to go through match videos and watch what other players do for pressure. I will say that autopiloting 5As in pressure is bad because it whiffs on crouching on a lot of the cast, and due to how Hakumen's pressure works, opponents typically will crouch block through a majority of your blockstrings due to the lack of strong overheads available midscreen that have good damage. When I mentioned basic throw mixup, the sort of thing I meant was stuff > Kishuu > throw. If they're teching this a lot, you can go Kishuu > 2a > Throw (purple) to catch their quick reflex and Throw Reject Miss them. Again, the mixup thread has good ideas, you can get ideas from JP matches, etc.

Dropping stuff like AD j.2a is simply practice. If they're teching you're simply doing it too slowly. Situations where there is a techable frame between j.2a AD j.2a vs. somewhere else is pretty rare. Grind training mode! Make sure you're grinding a combo that's worth doing, though.

Also, if you're able to post a match video of your own, seeing your gameplay can make it a lot easier to provide suggestions.

Edited March 21, 2012 by dioxideUniversa

[BladeOfJustice7]

@Kanashimi, combo videos only teach you how to do combos however, they are only useful once you master that characters basic combos (unless the combo video only shows basic combos. A lot of new players fail to understand that and simply watch a bunch of impractically cool combo videos and try to pull them off in a match to look cool and die. That video you pointed out is a combo video, they will never show you what moves are more useful than others, you'll never pull off fancy combos if you can't even get the right hit on your opponent in the first place.

Match videos, be it North American players or Asian players, will teach you what to and what not to do against each character. Watch those mostly and learn the most basic of combos with your character. As you play more, you'll get a feel of how to expand your combos for the most optimal damage/meter gain as time goes on.

I'd expand more on all this but I'm fucking tired...

@dioxideUniversa, how did you find channel lol?

[dioxideUniversa]

You posted it!

Was actually going to suggest those vids should probably be in the video thread at this point. I can't even remember what the other matches were that aren't in that playlist at this point (if there were any...)

Edited March 21, 2012 by dioxideUniversa

[BladeOfJustice7]

I'll try to put them and the remaining WallJumpMan matches I haven't uploaded yet. I completely forgot I posted them xD

[Kanashimi]

Still having some issues understanding what you're trying to say here, sorry. For combos, at least, as I said it's simply best to hit up training mode and grind Haku's bnbs. The Yukikaze combo for example (If you did indeed mean simply Yukikaze > Gurren > 6c) would be Yukikaze > Kishuu > 2c > sj.2a > AD j.2a > j.C. If you are using Yukikaze to escape the corner, instead you do Yukikaze > Kishuu > IAD > j.2a > j.2c > 2c > sj.2a > AD j.2a > j.C > 5c > 3c.

I'm having some issues going through your notation, but in general with blockstrings, a good idea as Mac said is to go through match videos and watch what other players do for pressure. I will say that autopiloting 5As in pressure is bad because it whiffs on crouching on a lot of the cast, and due to how Hakumen's pressure works, opponents typically will crouch block through a majority of your blockstrings due to the lack of strong overheads available midscreen that have good damage. When I mentioned basic throw mixup, the sort of thing I meant was stuff > Kishuu > throw. If they're teching this a lot, you can go Kishuu > 2a > Throw (purple) to catch their quick reflex and Throw Reject Miss them. Again, the mixup thread has good ideas, you can get ideas from JP matches, etc.

Dropping stuff like AD j.2a is simply practice. If they're teching you're simply doing it too slowly. Situations where there is a techable frame between j.2a AD j.2a vs. somewhere else is pretty rare. Grind training mode! Make sure you're grinding a combo that's worth doing, though.

Also, if you're able to post a match video of your own, seeing your gameplay can make it a lot easier to provide suggestions.

Sorry about that the brackets are meant to be variations

[IndigoNovember]

Phew, finally done with finals and my game (got voted 1 of 3 best games of our class by the heads of our game design department), time to get back to updating the combos in the wiki. What did I miss in my 2 - 3 week break?

Edited March 23, 2012 by IndigoNovember

[BladeOfJustice7]

Well I found the names to the players Spark played yesterday, video thread has a massive update to the first post (needs moar videos though). Sansprotocol and Spark fixed up the match up thread. I just found out you get to finish finals like a full month before me, and I also learned that you make video games.

[eQualz]

Why hello, my future Jins alias Haku-Men.

I'm not sure where this is meant to be asked, since this is general discussion I go ahead and drop this here. I have that little bit of trouble doing this combo consistently, namely at the bolded part below. I just started to use Haku so I'm not too comfortable with his combos.

5C > Renka (1) > Kishuu, 2C > j.B > j.2A, AD j.B > j.A, 2C > j.B > j.2A, AD j.2A, j.C

Is there some sort of a trick to it? I try to delay j.A so there's less of a gap between j.A > land > 2C. At times I feel like delaying the air dash makes it a little bit easier leaving me lower to the ground but I can't put my finger on what I fail here.

[Spark]

After kishuu > 2C make sure you do a delay j.B after jumping. It makes the j.B > j.A > 2C possible.

[eQualz]

What, there's nothing more to it? Thanks a bunch!

[IndigoNovember]

Other things you should do:

• Wait for your opponent to be completely grounded before you do 2C (this is why some people do a hop after the Kishuu, to better utilize the time when your opponent is falling).
  
• Delay not only the initial J.B but also the following J.2A.
  
• Air Dash immediately after the J.2A.
  
• Delay the J.B after the Air Dash until your opponent is at their lowest before they can tech.
  
• Delay the J.A after the J.B until you are just about to land. Ideally you want to land to cancel the recovery of J.A so you can go immediately to 2C or any other following move.
  

Hope this helps.

[xlolxlolx]

i still dont understand why people go for the j.b>j.a when j.a>j.b is so much easier :o

[BladeOfJustice7]

More damage.

[IndigoNovember]

i still dont understand why people go for the j.b>j.a when j.a>j.b is so much easier :o

Gotta get that 20 more damage man. /sarcasm

In all seriousness though, there are a few combos that only work (as in universally) with J.B > J.A like:

(1) Back Throw > Gurren > IAD J.B > J.A > 2C > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C [2617 / 1.4]

[mAc Chaos]

j.A j.B was always harder, I thought.