Airk Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Ah, yes, this is also true. I've had alot of success with 214B CH at the start of a round or when people approach from air to ground (when timed well) when I have no charge at my disposal. Oh, yeah. I sortof forgot about this. I can do it off 214X CH as well, though, honestly, using more 214X is on my list of things I need to do to improve my game. 214B is an interesting match opener - it'll score a CH in a lot of places 22A will, but it's nearly as vulnerable to the "jump forward and combo you in the face" problem that happens when you get predictable with 22A. It does lose to random low attacks at round start, but most people don't do that because all those random low attacks lose to 22A. It makes for an interesting additional round start option, and if you can get the IAD off it, you can bring it right to the corner. It's also fun for Tsubaki mirrors because it dodges 22A. Though sadly, if they get the 22A right at round start, you won't get the CH. 214A would get it...not sure if it goes far enough though. Must go test! And thanks for the advice Kiba. Looks like I have a couple of places I can try to add the IAD in then. The more places I can do it, the sooner I'll get comfy.
pktazn Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 IIRC if you CH j.C your opponent in the air and you're close enough to them and the ground you can do: land 2CC > IAD as well. @Kiba: Glad I could help in some way even though it's super basic. xD Wooo! @Pk: You should keep us updated about when you guys have those casuals on stream. I actually want to see you in action, those of us who watch would obviously want to help and it's not like any of us would boo you or anything. I don't really care if people see my matches honestly but I'd rather they be recent instead of from 4 months ago lol.
Kiba Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 IIRC if you CH j.C your opponent in the air and you're close enough to them and the ground you can do: land 2CC > IAD as well. @Kiba: Glad I could help in some way even though it's super basic. xD Wooo! You are correct, although you can always dash 2C too. Indeed! I was doing 6C all this time and it helps to know that there is something stronger even by the slightest. So we have a choice to get more meter or a lil more damage which is good! Thanks. I also need to get my head round 22X - 2B -2CC - IAD combo in the corner. I keep using 6CC.
HajinShinobi Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 I don't really care if people see my matches honestly but I'd rather they be recent instead of from 4 months ago lol. Oh okay, just be sure to link us ahead of time then so we can cheer you on.
LunarSelenia Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 I also need to get my head round 22X - 2B -2CC - IAD combo in the corner. I keep using 6CC. ^Blargh that. I keep on doing 6CC too. Only because I find myself often with 2 charges in the corner I love scaring people with 22[D] into 4~5k. So the off chances I only have one charge to use on the 22[D] and find myself out of stock, I default to 6CC ORZ
Airk Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 Humorously, today I had the opposite problem, where even when I _HAD_ two stocks, I was so focused on remembering to do the dash 5C pickup after a 22D (For the one charge combo) that I completely failed to go for the 6CC. x.x I did manage a nice 5k corner combo once, but Tager still smooshed me. So sad, Tager.
LunarSelenia Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 I fail on the dash 5C a lot. It's oddly something I can't get consistently. I opt to scare people into a 22[D] in the corner...except when I fight Solar, gotta be really sneaky with it or else she'll DP. My favorite combo to this day is still 22[D] > (5D tap) > 6CC > j.214D > 5C(w)C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B. I know there are better combos out there but I love IAD combos so much O.O;;
Shruikon Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 I fail on the dash 5C a lot. It's oddly something I can't get consistently. I opt to scare people into a 22[D] in the corner...except when I fight Solar, gotta be really sneaky with it or else she'll DP. My favorite combo to this day is still 22[D] > (5D tap) > 6CC > j.214D > 5C(w)C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B. I know there are better combos out there but I love IAD combos so much O.O;; 22[D] > tap 5D > 6CC > 623C > j.236A(w) > j.214D > 5C(w)C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 22C > 66 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B Gives a fair bit more damage and still contains your favourite IAD~ It's about uhh, 700 more damage I think? I sometimes miss the 22C extender though so just a 2CC > 236C > 214B > 22B ender makes it a bit easier to land at a loss of 200 damage or so.
Kiba Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) 2 Charge - Midscreen. 5B - 5CC - 623C - J.236D - J.214C - 6C - 214D - 2CC - (Slight delay) 623C(w) - J.214A - Dash 2CC - 236B - 214B - 22B (4.1K) The trick is to hit the opponent as low as possible with 2CC after the 214D in order to get the upcoming Dash 2CC to connect. Looks like this was better than what I submitted earlier in terms of damage, but it's a harder combo. 2 Charge - Midscreen. 5B - 5CC - 623C - J.214A(w) - 2CC - 623C - J.214B - 623C - J.236A(w) - J.214D - 236D - 5C - 2CC - 236B - 214B - 22B (or if in the corner 5C - 2CC - 22C - Stuff) Another alternative to getting players in the corner quickly. Edited October 19, 2011 by Kiba
LunarSelenia Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 22[D] > tap 5D > 6CC > 623C > j.236A(w) > j.214D > 5C(w)C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 22C > 66 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B Gives a fair bit more damage and still contains your favourite IAD~ It's about uhh, 700 more damage I think? I sometimes miss the 22C extender though so just a 2CC > 236C > 214B > 22B ender makes it a bit easier to land at a loss of 200 damage or so. Hmmm sounds interesting, I think I'll try it out when I get home from work tomorrow. Thanks Shuri =3 (gives me a reason to prioritize and learn j.236A(w) stuff)
Kiba Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) 1 Charge 5B - 5CC - 623C - J.214A(w) - (Slight Delay) 236D - 2CC - IAD J.CC(delay) - 5B - 2CC - 236B - 214B - 22B (3.6k). If you take them to the corner which in most cases will, you can use the 5C - 2CC - 22C - 5C - 2C - (stuff) ender. I knew 236D would work, but it's unfortunate I didn't realise until this late! If you hit them early they'll end up spinning in the other direction with no way to followup the combo. Variation is quite nice I guess. Edited October 19, 2011 by Kiba
Rhiya Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 What's with all this 5B 5CC shit? It's a completely unrealistic situation. 5B>5C is a shit blockstring. It's only good if your opponent is respecting zero percent, because the /only/ thing 5B>5C does is keep someone blocking.
Shruikon Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Because it's impossible to land 5B as a starter? =/
Andru Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Whenever I do a 6CC > j.214D > 5CC pickup combo everyone watching the match is always like "wat?" Nobody knows that move OTG's XD Or that troll-looking corner combo I stole from that one video with Kiba in it (2A > 2CC > 2A > 2CC > etc), I love giving the crowd reactions :P
Rhiya Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Shrui, I don't think you understand how hitconfirming works.
Kiba Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 What's with all this 5B 5CC shit? It's a completely unrealistic situation. 5B>5C is a shit blockstring. It's only good if your opponent is respecting zero percent, because the /only/ thing 5B>5C does is keep someone blocking. I thought I already explained this to you earlier when you attacked D4E. 5B - 5CC leads to a stronger combo and gives you an oppurtunity to use an IAD combo if necessary. It's more than likely going to be listed as an expert combo. There is no reason why you still can't use 5BB. On the side note, why is 5B - 5C shit? What makes 5BB more realistic? Because it's impossible to land 5B as a starter? =/ It's not impossible.
Rhiya Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 5B - 5CC leads to a stronger combo and gives you an oppurtunity to use an IAD combo if necessary. It's more than likely going to be listed as an expert combo. There is no reason why you still can't use 5BB. Yes, 5B 5CC prorates less. The problem is that it's not a practical blockstring. 5BB is better, because it leaves more blockstring options open -- and 5b..b is a frametrap, so you're doing a useful string on block. With 5B 5C, you lose the ability to do non-jump high/low strings if your opponent blocks, and 5B 5C isn't that hot itself. It'd be for situations where you /know/ 5B will hit -- but 5B is a spacing normal, so that's not the case most of the time. And even if you're using it for punishes, you have better combo routes off CH than 5B 5CC.
Airk Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 I'm a little baffled by the vehemence here, DT. =/ If people can confirm 5B into a combo on air hit, or into 22A or 236D, then this sort of combo is within the realm of possibility. It's not an easily applied combo, but the range on 5C isn't really any worse than 5BB, so anytime you could confirm into a 5BB combo, if you're looking for it and reacting fast enough, you should be able to confirm into this. It's not EASY, but it's a skill that you can develop. Me? I wish they'd freaking fix 5BB to be closer to 5B range. I lose too many matches because the damn thing whiffs. =/
Kiba Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Or that troll-looking corner combo I stole from that one video with Kiba in it (2A > 2CC > 2A > 2CC > etc), I love giving the crowd reactions :P Lmfao. Trollin' ftw. Yes, 5B 5CC prorates less. The problem is that it's not a practical blockstring. 5BB is better, because it leaves more blockstring options open -- and 5b..b is a frametrap, so you're doing a useful string on block. It'd be for situations where you /know/ 5B will hit -- but 5B is a spacing normal, so that's not the case most of the time. And even if you're using it for punishes, you have better combo routes off CH than 5B 5CC. In a nutshell as Airk pointed out it's all a matter of really good hitconfirming. I list these types of combos to give a better challenge to players. Whilst it may be in your case unreliastic, it's extremely useful in cutting proration and leading to better results. You know how I like my optimal combos after all. It would also help players to get into the habit of doing 5B - 5CC more from other starters too (236D, J.C CH etc). For reference to this ^ above statement only, I just happened to be watching this With 5B 5C, you lose the ability to do non-jump high/low strings if your opponent blocks, and 5B 5C isn't that hot itself. You can still do 5C - 6C and that in itself is a frame trap as you pointed out to me earlier and you can even jump cancel that. You could also use 6B for more options (further pressure, back away, etc) You could even use 5B - 5C - 2C for the jump cancel. You aren't exactly losing out on much here. Edited October 19, 2011 by Kiba
Shruikon Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 It's not impossible. Yeah, my comment was sarcasm more than anything.
Rhiya Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 If people can confirm 5B into a combo on air hit, or into 22A or 236D, then this sort of combo is within the realm of possibility. The thing is, those examples already have cues. If you're running AA 5B, you kind of /expect/ an air hit. Same for max range 5B -- you can't do anything else but 22X (does 236D work there?), so you're probably going to hit 22X or just back off. In a nutshell as Airk pointed out it's all a matter of really good hitconfirming. And, like I said, ground hitconfirms are not magic. Whilst it may be in your case unreliastic You did not just ad hominem me. And you did not just insult my play. That was fucking low. You can still do 5C - 6C and that in itself is a frame trap as you pointed out to me earlier and you can even jump cancel that. You could also use 6B for more options (further pressure, back away, etc) You could even use 5B - 5C - 2C for the jump cancel. You aren't exactly losing out on much here. Except, like I said, an entire goddamn high/low game. And you also get less moves before you run out of gatling pressure.
Kiba Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) The thing is, those examples already have cues. If you're running AA 5B, you kind of /expect/ an air hit. Same for max range 5B -- you can't do anything else but 22X (does 236D work there?), so you're probably going to hit 22X or just back off. 236D does not work from the max range unfortunately. And, like I said, ground hitconfirms are not magic. All a matter of practice dude. You did not just ad hominem me. And you did not just insult my play. That was fucking low. Yea you're right I did not because I didn't mean to insult you whatsoever! I only meant it like that because you have been the only who has said it's unreliastic and I do not want to dig deeper to find out what you interpreted from my statement. I saw your play a long time ago and I liked the way you played and even praised you. I don't know what would change my mind to this day to finally insult you. Although I feel this should come to a close otherwise it'll get unecessarily bigger. You find it unreliastic, that's ultimately fine and I do not intend to dispute with you as to why it isn't. I will however leave it at the fact that I like giving optimal stuff. The easier and more practical combos are already listed there and like I said I'm trying to provide a challenge for those who want to opt to level higher. Edited October 19, 2011 by Kiba
BatousaiJ Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Oh shit, Kiba is exposed as a secret jerk. What he says about hitconfirming is right on though. I find myself hitconfirming things on the fly a lot better when I get a lot of games in(ala practice) and when I don't play for a while or just screw around with subs for an extended amount of time, I find myself blue beating or just plainly not picking up some of the tighter, situational hitconfirms like 5B AA hit or 5B CH and etc.
pktazn Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) IF IT WORKS FOR YOU USE IT, IF IT DOESN'T THEN DON'T. There's absolutely nothing wrong with listing different situations that may arise while you are playing but if you find it doesn't suit your play style then no one is forcing you to use that particular style or stopping you from modifying it to fit what you want it to do. There is no reason to insult or feel insulted because someone disagrees with you. Edited October 19, 2011 by pktazn
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