[CSE] Noel Final Changes

[Akira-Shiro]

Also it is possible to get that many jb/jc's in a combo u do jb jc jb (Jum cancel) jb jc this is my manual air combo anytime i finish with an air combo =/ iv used it since CT

JD>236a why wouldnt it be possible & if you try 22c wouldnt you need to wait for noel to reload. They allow optic barrel to cancel into the 1st hit of noels drive IE any starter & jd is a stater so why wouldnt it work

Edited August 29, 2011 by Akira-Shiro

[Runis]

j.B j.C(3) j.B dj j.B j.C(3) 236C doesn't work on long combos ending in an aerial finish.

6a>6c>5d>optic barrel>6c>jD>d.6D>springraid>S.jb>jc>jb>jb>jc>revo lverblast/DD

Pro ration goes

p1 70%, Combo rate 80% making the hit after 6A at 56% >6C (0.5152%)> 5D (0.43792%)> 236A (0.372232%) > j.D 1st hit (0.34245344) > j.D 2nd hit (0.3150571648) > d.6D (0.280400876672) > 623D (0.2243207013376) > s.jB (0.192915803150336) > j.C (0.1359996608310892) > j.B(0.1169597083147367) > COMBO WILL DROP HERE

j.B has 14 frames of untech time, and has 8 Frames of startup. The only option you will have is to RB right as you hit j.C which I'm not even sure if it'll work.

I'm not sure if you know this but once you go below 35% pro ration untech time on your moves will decrease, once you go below 20% almost anything that isn't level 3 or higher won't link into anything. Noel's saving grace is that her drives are all level 4 bar a few exceptions. Your combo just won't work unfortunately, unless pro rations change, its not viable.

Proration Ground Air

32% 0F -2F

27% 0F -3F

22% -2F -4F

18% -3F -5F

14% -4 -6F

10% -5F -8F

7% -7F -10F

4% -10F -13F

2% -14F -17F

< 2% auto tech auto tech

Edited August 29, 2011 by Runis

[Akira-Shiro]

This is the reason why i said PROBABLE COMBOS, since we dont have the game its no way of knowing. An if ur using proration from CS2 and bringing it into CSX its pointless doing that u say the combo might drop but ur also forgetting that the P1 proration of 6C is CS1 was god awfull and now its gdlk So u saying all this is a waste i know it wont work now. Its also a high chance they will buff thee P2 proration in Springraid since i will be the basis of all our mid screen combos. Im putting down combos that I believe will work in CSX. Please do keep that in mind, because as of now im fully aware it wont work.

[TrueGunnerShadow]

I was reading the recent post from the Noel jbbs.

It show a simple corner combo for 5600

3C > 22BC > 6C (1 Hit) > 236A > 6C > j.D > 4D > Assault Through > Reverse 6C (2 Hits) > 6C > 5D > d.6B > d.5B > d.5C > Bloom Trigger > Fenrir

Source:

3C>22BC>6C1>Aオプ>6C1>JD>4D>アサルト>裏周り6C2>6C>5D>6B>5B>5C>ブルーム＞フェンリル

この簡単コンボで5600くらいだったわ

[Runis]

Based on that combo, proration on 3C is p1 100, but they only said BC, but more than likely its a B hold as in multi hit BC so it could just be that. (22BBBBC would give a value of 5.4k from that combo with current proration, 22BC would not)

And yes I'm fully aware that proration can change, which can make a seemingly bad char in the loke (Noel) have godlike damage when people find things out.

It will be interesting to know what will work in extend, but unless all her good starters get proration buffs, her damage in generall will be heavily nerfed. (Ps. 3C is not a very reliable starter.)

Actually that combo should even work in CS2 if you RC the assault through.giving you 4.7k before fenrir.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Runis

[TrueGunnerShadow]

I think you can still do Jump Drive Landing Recovery Cancel in CS Extend.

After all, you can do it on CT, CS1, and CS2.

[7r17r1]

Two combo from 3C in corner in BBCS EX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYaVnXl43dk&feature=feedu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99EVuCW-syw&feature=feedu

We knew Noel would still have powerfull corner combo, I m waiting for the midscreen ones x)

[LunaKage]

Those two combos technically do the same damage.

You'll notice that in the first video he stopped the 22Bs at 1.9k and in the second video he stopped the 22Bs at 2.1k

so seems like j.4D is still just a flashy move as opposed to the meat and potatoes.

[7r17r1]

On CS2 the best combo I can pull off of a 5A / 6A / Standing 2B in the corner is based on that j.4D (3k8 on 6A, no fenrir added, 5k with fenrir)

Did you find something better ?

[Ayane]

gonna b doin j.4d just to look kewl

[LastStarSaviour]

That was sexy to look at.

[HexaNoid]

On CS2 the best combo I can pull off of a 5A / 6A / Standing 2B in the corner is based on that j.4D (3k8 on 6A, no fenrir added, 5k with fenrir)

Did you find something better ?

There's an easier combo off of 6A in the corner that does 3.6k without j.4D; while j.4D is 'optimal' in terms of damage, it's nowhere near as practical and isn't really worth the risk for an extra <200 damage.

Basically, j.4D combos are still probably going to be limited to combo videos and style points in matches rather than becoming the new bread and butters.

[Fluck]

My japanese isn't too good so correct me if you spot a mistake.

弱化点

Nerfs

・jBの下方向薄く

j.B's vertical hitbox worsened.

・ハイダーゲージ回収率少なく

Haida gives less heat.

・ＣＲ６Ｂ遅すぎ

d.6B slower startup.

・Cの攻撃レベル低下?(C>バレットが繋がりにくかった)

C attacks reduced attack level? (C > bullet rain does not combo).

・JDに弾無敵?(弾以外はわからず)

j.D projectile invuln?

・立Dの無敵おそらく減少(後半部分がごっそりなくなってる気がする)

5D has reduced invulnerability, seems to be in the latter half.

・J4Dがいらなすぎ、これから無敵なりj4D絡めたコンボがでてくることを期待

I'm not sure on this at all, but seems like j4D is more required now.

・4Dの横方向薄く

4D horizontal hitbox nerfed.

・体感だけど2Aの硬直か発生が伸びた

Just a feeling but feels like 2A has longer recovery and startup.

・オプ鈍化（体感CSと同じかそれより早い）

Optic barrel has been slowed down [but, apparently,] (Feels faster than CS)

JD弾無敵を弱化にいれたのはバースト撃たれて死んだからです

Projectile invuln j.D is a nerf cause they can burst through j.D and instead of flying away you land and get blown up.

こんなのΛ2D対空とかにしか使えない気がします。

Feels like it can be used against lambda's 2D.

強化点です

期待してください

Buffs

・空対空からダウンへ

Air to air, descending from jump

jA>jB>jc>jC>jD>CR6B>6C>D>C>Bloom trigger 2400 damage

ｊＤの受け身不能時間が長くなってる？

jD's untech time increased?

中央だとブルーム性能変更のせいで起き攻めいきにくいしjDあたらなかったら

アラクネ空投げ確定とかになるし、高すぎるとレイドからJB～ってなるけどけどとうとう空対空からリターン来ました

I can't really tell what he's saying here, sorry.

・下方向に弱くなったjBだが横に長くなった。↑のコンボももちろんいける

jB has a reduced vertical hitbox but a better horizontal hitbox. Can do air combos (I think?)

・強化ではないが2Cのノックバックは変わっていない。むしろ減少？固めがあいかわらずつよい

Not a buff but 2C's knockback has not changed. In fact, could it have reduced? Blockstun is still as strong (I think?)

・4D、CRＤ、CR6Cの受け身不能時間増加

4D, chain revolve D, d.6C have longer untech times.

コンボ

Combos

端付近でDから4000近く,2Dから3500近くでます

Near corner, combos starting from D do 4000, if starting from 2D it does 3500.

Dor2D>6A.>6C>6D>Bloom Trigger (wallbound)＞6C>4D>(CR6C)>Assault Throughー＞6C (wallbounce) >HjD (escapes from corner) >6D>B>C> Bloom trigger.

同じようなコンボでA,2Bから3000オーバーでます。

The same combo starting from A moves and 2B does over 3000.

ハザマが入りにくかったり端よりちょい遠いと入らないのでそういう場合は6Cで拾う前にAを入れると少し安定

No idea.

2D、4Dはいつもどおり使えます

Use 2D, 4D as usual.

今回は弱くなるとこ弱くなっていい感じだと思います。

Dで食ってきたんだよって人はちょっと無理そうなんでキャラ変えてください

[Runis]

Corrections in red

My japanese isn't too good so correct me if you spot a mistake.

弱化点

Nerfs

・jBの下方向薄く

j.B's vertical hitbox worsened.

・ハイダーゲージ回収率少なく

Haida gives less heat.

・ＣＲ６Ｂ遅すぎ

d.6B slower startup. - Actually it says its "TOO" slow, not just slow.

・Cの攻撃レベル低下?(C>バレットが繋がりにくかった)

C attacks reduced attack level? (C > bullet rain does not combo).

・JDに弾無敵?(弾以外はわからず)

j.D projectile invuln? -(Unsure if non projectile invuln also)

・立Dの無敵おそらく減少(後半部分がごっそりなくなってる気がする)

5D has reduced invulnerability, seems to be in the latter half.

・J4Dがいらなすぎ、これから無敵なりj4D絡めたコンボがでてくることを期待

I'm not sure on this at all, but seems like j4D is more required now. - j.4D seems useless. Hopefully can take advantage of j.4D's new invulnerailty

・4Dの横方向薄く

4D horizontal hitbox nerfed.

・体感だけど2Aの硬直か発生が伸びた

Just a feeling but feels like 2A has longer recovery and startup.

・オプ鈍化（体感CSと同じかそれより早い）

Optic barrel has been slowed down [but, apparently,] (Feels faster than CS)

JD弾無敵を弱化にいれたのはバースト撃たれて死んだからです

Projectile invuln j.D is a nerf cause they can burst through j.D and instead of flying away you land and get blown up. - (IMO not a nerf, if you're not blown away after burst, can't you Flash Kick to burst punish since you can combo off that?)

こんなのΛ2D対空とかにしか使えない気がします。

Feels like it can be used against lambda's 2D.

強化点です

期待してください

Buffs

・空対空からダウンへ

Air to air, descending from jump

jA>jB>jc>jC>jD>CR6B>6C>D>C>Bloom trigger 2400 damage

ｊＤの受け身不能時間が長くなってる？

jD's untech time increased?

中央だとブルーム性能変更のせいで起き攻めいきにくいしjDあたらなかったら

アラクネ空投げ確定とかになるし、高すぎるとレイドからJB～ってなるけどけどとうとう空対空からリターン来ました

I can't really tell what he's saying here, sorry. - He's talking in reference to the last combo. Because of changes to Bloom, you don't get good Oki, if j.D whiffs You're gonna eat an Arakune Airthrow, if its too high all you get is Spring Raid into j.B combo.

・下方向に弱くなったjBだが横に長くなった。↑のコンボももちろんいける

jB has a reduced vertical hitbox but a better horizontal hitbox. Can do air combos (I think?)

・強化ではないが2Cのノックバックは変わっていない。むしろ減少？固めがあいかわらずつよい

Not a buff but 2C's knockback has not changed. In fact, could it have reduced? Blockstun is still as strong (I think?)

・4D、CRＤ、CR6Cの受け身不能時間増加

4D, chain revolve D, d.6C have longer untech times.

コンボ

Combos

端付近でDから4000近く,2Dから3500近くでます

Near corner, combos starting from D do 4000, if starting from 2D it does 3500.

D or 2D>6A.>6C>6D>Bloom Trigger (wallbound)＞6C>4D>(CR6C)>Assault Throughー＞6C (wallbounce) >HjD (escapes from corner) >6D>B>C> Bloom trigger.

同じようなコンボでA,2Bから3000オーバーでます。

The same combo starting from A moves and 2B does over 3000.

ハザマが入りにくかったり端よりちょい遠いと入らないのでそういう場合は6Cで拾う前にAを入れると少し安定

No idea. -Saying that hazama is a skinny bastard and if you're just a little bit slow it won't work, so throw in a 5A before 6A to make it more stable.

2D、4Dはいつもどおり使えます

Use 2D, 4D as usual.

今回は弱くなるとこ弱くなっていい感じだと思います。

Dで食ってきたんだよって人はちょっと無理そうなんでキャラ変えてくださいThis time she got a little bit nerfed, but as nerfs go, she came out alright. Too many people eating random D's and bitching to have the character completely changed.

[AcoTan]

Interesting that jC > jD works for us now. I want so see if jC knocks up less, or jD jumps higher on upwards momentum.

SR will be our go to midscreen, and AT will be our combo extender in corner.

And as Luna pointed out, jD invul through someone's burst, we can get either SR to punish, MF to mixup, or maybe even AT for crossup.

[TransientFaith]

Hmm...didn't specify how many hits of jC tho. My guess is 1 but would be cool if it was all 3

[Chaoschao222]

Glorious, thanks to you guys, I'mma edit the front post in a lil bit

[Chaoschao222]

Alright, should be more or less complete, now... any errors, let me know and I'll edit it.

[Demon Wind Bomb]

So how does having our C moves level decreased effect Noel? I realize that 5C > Thor no longer combos but does it effect anything else?

[LunaKage]

So how does having our C moves level decreased effect Noel? I realize that 5C > Thor no longer combos but does it effect anything else?

5C didn't just get a level decrease but it also has more recovery, since even in CS1 5C > Thor combo'd pretty easy.

Levels also affect block stun and frame advantage, pretty much everything honestly.

[Arcknight]

Even if a burst goes through j.D now how sure are you that you could land and punish it before the burst recovery? At best I think it would allow drive pressure(/sigh) and at worst wash out to neutral. Obviously this might be height dependent.

Thanks for the additional information by the way.

[LastStarSaviour]

Can't say I see the j.D buff as all that helpful. I guess it could become the safest drive to start pressure with. Might even be able to bait out some mashing from your oppenent with a j.D>SR punish. Even that is assuming your opponent thinks you're going to throw out some random D move upon landing. In the end, it'll definitely be something to experiment with.

Edited October 6, 2011 by LastStarSaviour

[SkyKing]

Can't say I see the j.D buff as all that helpful. I guess it could become the safest drive to start pressure with. Might even be able to bait out some mashing from your oppenent with a j.D>SR punish. Even that is assuming your opponent thinks you're going to throw out some random D move upon landing. In the end, it'll definitely be something to experiment with.

I've already got some ideas in my head as to the applications of j.D new projectile invuln. I can see it being really helpful in a couple of match-ups, namely Rachel.

[Arcknight]

It might also be handy if you dash>j.D>fly through retarded sword spam from Lambda>land>shake hands>profit. Or so the legend goes.

[Fluck]

I'm pretty sure that the opponent recovers before Noel does if he bursts through her j.D.