Airk Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 I'm not sure I agree with this. Obviously it depends on how much untechable time your knockdown gives, but a forward roll covers a lot of distance and only takes 30 frames. From there, something like Ice Car can hit you in 15 frames or less. Based on extremely lazy observation, it takes about one second to get one stock. It's going to be close. Rephrasing to - 'Tsubaki gets stock quicker than CS1' Just saying that that's a low bar. :P
Tari Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 In CS2, you have 9 frames of recovery on 5D after letting go of the button. You can easily let go of charge and block before they can hit you. Even if the recovery is slightly longer in EX, that should hold true.
Tsubaki 5B Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 - j.D charging is faster than it is in CS1 and CS2 - 5D charging isnt that slower than it is in CS2 - 2D charging is still fairly decent Tsubaki's charge speed is definitely not at CS1 levels. 5D charge recovery slower than CS2 2D Charge recovery a bit slower than CS1 but still faster than CS2 charge cancels are gonna be way more risky in EX also it still has counter hit status
Kiba Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 charge cancels are gonna be way more risky in EX How comes?
HajinShinobi Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) 5D charge recovery slower than CS2 2D Charge recovery a bit slower than CS1 but still faster than CS2 charge cancels are gonna be way more risky in EX also it still has counter hit status I was strictly referring to how fast she gains charge with comparing Extend to CS1 and CS2. I'm aware of the recovery between the 3 games. Edited December 12, 2011 by HajinShinobi
Tsubaki 5B Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 How comes? their slower from wat i've seen and it still has the counter hit status or rather more risky against certain character like jin or platinum because they still have very fast normals @hajin my bad haha
Kiba Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 their slower from wat i've seen and it still has the counter hit status or rather more risky against certain character like jin or platinum because they still have very fast normals I asked because I was curious and because I actually thought it was extremely similar as how it is now. However, I can see why 5D having slower recovery would make it more riskier. At the same time, we get charge faster with charge cancels, so indeed there's a high risk with that. Not sure about the reward being high though. Doing it often is what allows easy poke - ins.
Rhiya Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 If it's extremely easy to get charge in that a tap will get her one stock for example, then to me, it's free. That and gaining the current damage she gets in CS2 is far too easy. For instance, why should she get Makoto damage in the corner because a knockdown is allowing me to get 5 stocks? Making her work to gain stocks is the right idea. The thing is, it's /never/ free. In neutral, you charge at the expense of footsies, or, you might argue, as part of them; but, either way, doing so makes you more vulnerable in neutral. Charging after knockdown reduces setup potential, and choosing to charge after knockdown also means you can't use 3CC ender at all -- and you had to score a hit to be rewarded with that charge time to begin with. You get the idea. You are sacrificing something to charge every time you do so, or it's a "reward."
BatousaiJ Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 I see a lot complaints about how Tsu works mechanically. It's what makes her unique and interesting to play as since it(charge) has its pitfalls and benefits. To me it(charging) is like putting bullets in your a revolver one at a time. It takes time to do but once you've got a bullet or two in there, the whole scope of the battle changes. We become much more dangerous and our opponent needs to deal with us differently as well since we pose a different threat. Sure, we could beat up our opponent just by punching and kicking them to death but it obviously takes a lot longer and is often times a much more difficult of an endeavor than otherwise. Being able to choose wisely when is best to get charge and when to just get in there and keep up the pressure is what separates an average Tsu player and a good one. That feeling of reloading your gun in the middle of combat is quite riveting- a thrill you won't get playing as anyone else in BB.
Rhiya Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 I see a lot complaints about how Tsu works mechanically. I think, at least in CS2, she's alright. One charge, changes Tsubaki because she suddenly has 236D -- and players are scared of 236D. There is a palpable difference between Tsubaki with a charge and without a charge. I don't think it's optimal; I would be much happier if install weren't essentially useless outside of showboating, for example. But it's not bad as of CS2. Can't speak for EX yet.
HajinShinobi Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 I see a lot complaints about how Tsu works mechanically. It's what makes her unique and interesting to play as since it(charge) has its pitfalls and benefits. To me it(charging) is like putting bullets in your a revolver one at a time. It takes time to do but once you've got a bullet or two in there, the whole scope of the battle changes. We become much more dangerous and our opponent needs to deal with us differently as well since we pose a different threat. Sure, we could beat up our opponent just by punching and kicking them to death but it obviously takes a lot longer and is often times a much more difficult of an endeavor than otherwise. Being able to choose wisely when is best to get charge and when to just get in there and keep up the pressure is what separates an average Tsu player and a good one. That feeling of reloading your gun in the middle of combat is quite riveting- a thrill you won't get playing as anyone else in BB. You are definitely right, and that is what I meant before when I said "Tsubaki isnt everyone else".
Airk Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 I see a lot complaints about how Tsu works mechanically. It's what makes her unique and interesting to play as since it(charge) has its pitfalls and benefits. To me it(charging) is like putting bullets in your a revolver one at a time. It takes time to do but once you've got a bullet or two in there, the whole scope of the battle changes. We become much more dangerous and our opponent needs to deal with us differently as well since we pose a different threat. Sure, we could beat up our opponent just by punching and kicking them to death but it obviously takes a lot longer and is often times a much more difficult of an endeavor than otherwise. Being able to choose wisely when is best to get charge and when to just get in there and keep up the pressure is what separates an average Tsu player and a good one. That feeling of reloading your gun in the middle of combat is quite riveting- a thrill you won't get playing as anyone else in BB. Sure. But NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with whether the risks and rewards of the character are balanced for any given incarnation. You could have everything listed above with any number of different charge time to charge power ratios. Heck, everything you just said was true in CS1, where Tsubaki sucked. Basically, all you've said is "It's cool to have a character who charges and gets more threatening if she can." I think we all feel that way or we wouldn't be in this forum. Nothing in your post relates, really, in the slightest, to the balance of the character. I think charge moves should be more effective, not less, when you slow down charge gain, and I think that charges should translate more directly into the kind of damage that is gotten by characters that DON'T have to play the above game get. That's all.
Kiba Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 /passionxtroll To think that this is all because of charge.
Airk Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 Well, if you're going to argue about something, it might as well be something fundamental to the character. We couldn't have this discussion over the 2A nerf. :P
Daedron Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 2A needs to deal 10000 damage, be +1000 on block and be a low and high at the same time. Discuss.
Kiba Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 Well, if you're going to argue about something, it might as well be something fundamental to the character. True, provided it's logical. I liked the discussion until I saw power rangers in pumpkins. /passionxtroll 2A needs to deal 10000 damage, be +1000 on block and be a low and high at the same time. Discuss.
LunarSelenia Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) 2A needs to deal 10000 damage, be +1000 on block and be a low and high at the same time. Discuss. You forgot the part about how it reaches from corner to corner. EDIT: Serious post/not turning this into the GD: The only thing I worry about for CSE Tsubaki is Mugen ._.;;;; I hardlynever use Mugen to begin with....>< Edited December 13, 2011 by LunarSelenia
Daedron Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 You forgot the part about how it reaches from corner to corner. It also acts as a launcher and launches your opponent off-screen for about 95 in-game seconds.
Rhiya Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 2A needs to deal 10000 damage, be +1000 on block and be a low and high at the same time. Discuss. I could get behind this.
Tsubaki 5B Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 You forgot the part about how it reaches from corner to corner. EDIT: Serious post/not turning this into the GD: The only thing I worry about for CSE Tsubaki is Mugen ._.;;;; I hardlynever use Mugen to begin with....><i think it will be used just for some extra damage to make sure your opponent is dead in the most stylish way possible >>
Velvien Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 2A needs to deal 10000 damage, be +1000 on block and be a low and high at the same time. Discuss. Sounds good to me.
shad0whiei Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 You forgot the part about how it reaches from corner to corner. EDIT: Serious post/not turning this into the GD: The only thing I worry about for CSE Tsubaki is Mugen ._.;;;; I hardlynever use Mugen to begin with....>< Does mugen have any extra properties that we know of? Does it make specials do a little more like bangs furinkazan? As far as air use? More time for some combos with j.236D or j.214D or maybe to mess with people from the super slow down or counter a dp with it's invincible frames? Jump cancel a 6c into mugen to bait a burst or dp. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Airk Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 Does mugen have any extra properties that we know of? Does it make specials do a little more like bangs furinkazan? Heh. No. Though it apparently un-nerfs our D-specials a little, taking them back to their oh-so-overpowered CS2 proration, at least. i think it will be used just for some extra damage to make sure your opponent is dead in the most stylish way possible >> Sadly, Mori-san seems to think we're supposed to be building our game around it and that it's the reason Tsubaki doesn't suck now. Heh.
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