toanenadiz Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Who said that? Or did you come up with it yourself?
C0R Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Huey said it a long time ago in a not so fanciful fashion.
Airk Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) "Character faults are only brought to light when all player faults have been conquered." ~ Makes a good quote, but it's completely false. Even poor players OCCASIONALLY make the right decisions. When those right decisions don't work ANYWAY, due to character issues, those character faults are brought to light. A good player will reveal character faults quicker and more definitively, but it's misleading to indicate that lower level players can't suffer from, and therefore reveal character issues. Additionally, there's more than enough reference material of good players to be able to draw intelligent conclusions at this point. Or, to put things another way, I don't use my play when I'm trying to draw conclusions, unless it's super basic stuff. I watch and I learn. Edited January 29, 2013 by Airk
Fluck Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Just wondering, why don't you guys just IAD backwards after a 2C frame trap if it didn't work? Usually they can't do anything, unless I'm mistaken.
toanenadiz Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) Even poor players OCCASIONALLY make the right decisions. When those right decisions don't work ANYWAY, due to character issues, those character faults are brought to light. lol. If it didn't work, then it wasn't the right decision. Edit: I guess I just don't understand how you can say someone made the right decision when it failed since if it didn't work, then it wouldn't have been the right decision. Edited January 29, 2013 by toanenadiz
Airk Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Just wondering, why don't you guys just IAD backwards after a 2C frame trap if it didn't work? Usually they can't do anything, unless I'm mistaken. Yeah, but then you've sacrificed any advantage you had and now you're back at neutral, which isn't really where you want to be against most of the cast.
Kiba Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) Think of doing 2C frame trap as a mini risk. If your opponent blocks it, then you have no choice but to go with a special cancel, jump cancel pressure (useful against characters who don't really have a viable AA) or IAD away. IAD sacrifices your pressure momentum, but if you special cancel, 22X can be used to frame trap. Anything else may result in you getting poked out. Edited January 29, 2013 by Kiba
Surf Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 I rely on the 2C frametrap sometimes because online delaying 5C to frametrap can be iffy. 5/2A > 2C will frametrap every single time. But CH 5C leads to more damage. Its not the most optimal thing but it's just something I use. Just wondering, why don't you guys just IAD backwards after a 2C frame trap if it didn't work? Usually they can't do anything, unless I'm mistaken. Funny thing is. If I land a CH 2C and IAD away, she actually has enough time to run back in and 5A or even 5C the character while their still in a crumple state. Their in CH state for 48 frames, almost a full second. So it's more than enough time to confirm
mAc Chaos Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Makes a good quote, but it's completely false. Even poor players OCCASIONALLY make the right decisions. When those right decisions don't work ANYWAY, due to character issues, those character faults are brought to light. A good player will reveal character faults quicker and more definitively, but it's misleading to indicate that lower level players can't suffer from, and therefore reveal character issues. Additionally, there's more than enough reference material of good players to be able to draw intelligent conclusions at this point. Or, to put things another way, I don't use my play when I'm trying to draw conclusions, unless it's super basic stuff. I watch and I learn. "Right" and "wrong" only exist in the context of the character and their options though. So if a character doesn't have the tools to do approach X then it was a mistake on your part to try it, and you should try something else. For example, trying to rush down immediately with Hakumen isn't as good as doing it with Ragna because you have to wait for stars before you can do anything. All I need is throw though. You're right though that it can still reveal character flaws since you'll see what they are lacking.
toanenadiz Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Why not? 5A > 5A > 5C should be a frame trap right?
Surf Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 You can't frametrap with 5c. Not sure if your talking about CP. But 5/2A > delayed 5C is a frametrap
Kiba Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 5A > 5B frame traps. 5A > 5C is too tight to frame trap, is what I learned. Though surfeit is right in that a delayed 5C will work.
mAc Chaos Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 So basically I just have to get ready to counter after 5A. Excellent.
toanenadiz Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 5A > 5B frame traps. 5A > 5C is too tight to frame trap, is what I learned. Though surfeit is right in that a delayed 5C will work. You can't delay Tsubaki's gatlings?
Kiba Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Unless the player is predictable, no, just block. You wanna be thrown?
mAc Chaos Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Yeah I know. But I can keep an eye out for anything that even looks remotely like 5B. Also I see it says 5A and 2A can only be used 3 times in one string. Is that 5A and 2A together can only be used 3 times, or 3 times for each of them.
Surf Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 You can't delay Tsubaki's gatlings? Yes of course. Like 5B > delayed 5BB frametraps, and if you time it right you can stop jump outs during jump startup. She actually has a ton of frames plethora of frametraps in her arsenal. In my opinion, I usually just apply normal pressure when I play someone I dont know. Normal pressure for me is just the usual staggers. If I see they like to press buttons because either a. I'm staggering them, which nobody likes or b. Their expecting charge cancels and are hoping to hit me out of the recovery. I usually will start attempting to frametrap them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. But when it does usually they opt not to press buttons anymore. But some players never learn, and still do. But once I've got them respecting my pressure, I start charge canceling more often. So they start to press buttons again, so the whole process repeats. Also I see it says 5A and 2A can only be used 3 times in one string. Is that 5A and 2A together can only be used 3 times, or 3 times for each of them. I'm pretty sure it applies to both each and all together
Kiba Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Yeah I know. But I can keep an eye out for anything that even looks remotely like 5B. Also I see it says 5A and 2A can only be used 3 times in one string. Is that 5A and 2A together can only be used 3 times, or 3 times for each of them. 3 times for each of them.
Errol Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Yep 3 for each. Also you can't frametrap with 5a/2a > delayed 5c. Unless what you are calling 'delayed 5c' is actually 'I returned to neutral and pressed 5c, which my opponent had 10 frames to DP, or 4-5 frames to jab me out of' I don't think I'm mistaken here but double check for me please.
Kiba Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 I'm gonna lastly say this unless anything else pops into my head. You guys are now realising tsubaki's limits, but I strongly feel that some of you need to get better first in order for your arguments to hold any real credibility. That's the honest truth. This post I made earlier is worrying. Now you guys know me. I am not an elitist person nor do I like enjoy being rude, but lemme say this before this gets misinterpreted in the way I don't want it to. I didn't mean that if you're not good that you shouldn't post, that mentality is extremely retarded and anyone like that deserves to be flogged because this is what being a community is all about. Let's take an example. Sure I may be one of the better Tsubakis, but you guys will be surprised as to how much I learn from you guys. Errol is more knowledgable and creative about Tsubaki's tech than I am. What I mean, is that, when I see something like, it's ridiculous how people can DP through Tsubaki's 5CC, or that 2CC needs to hit crouching, it generally sounds like you need to spend more time with Tsubaki. We were all there in the beginning. I used to complain about Tsubaki's gatlings, but now I've made an effort to vary my blockstrings a lot more, keep it short and sweet, and BatousaiJ has taught me to avoid being afraid of DPs because I'm just sacrificing my pressure potential. Just thought I'd throw that out.
Errol Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 This post I made earlier is worrying. I missed this. Plus the new title 'Perfect'. Come on surf, Jin-niisama is calling for us.
Kiba Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 The all seeing eye missed this? What is this? It's not 'perfect' btw. That insinuiates something else.
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