BatousaiJ Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 Ya, Tsu combos are far from brain dead. You need to know multiple combo paths based on meter, charge, starter, position and character match hitbox at all times. But it comes with time.
Kiba Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Does anyone use 2C on block? I used to do it to vary my pressure but ultimately for pressure purposes it's not that good. I think it's only good against Tager when you want to get away from him if you use a blockstring for instance. 2C pretty much limits your options. 2CC followup can be crouched and then you can be punished, and air pressure can be thrown out of or AA'd if they're paying attention, or if you use it multiple times. Your only choice would be to end with 22C, and even then that's not so tight. I see Tsubaki's 2C like Ragna's 6A. I've also grown to dislike followup pressure from 6B because of what guys have been saying earlier about being poked out of. I guess 6B > 22C is good for keeping your opponent honest in blocking, and 5CC > 6B works against mashers, but as a pressure tool I personally don't think it's that good. I don't know if anyone used this either, but a jump cancel IAD crossover into j.D > j.C can be beaten with a 5A. Something else I used to try to vary options. I guess I was trying to be fancy with pressure but it's better to just keep it plain and simple with short pressure strings and charge cancels consisting of throws and 2As. 5CC(delay) is good for getting mashers too but note if you delay it for too long you can be thrown out of it. Edited March 15, 2012 by Kiba
BatousaiJ Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 I use 2C as an alternative to 5C > 6C > jc shenanigans. 5A > 5C > 2C is tight after all while 6C has a significant gap. Just gotta watch hitboxes since if they're barrier guarding you and they've got a small hitbox, the 2C might whiff which would be bad. I still use 6B pressure reset all the time with great success. People think 6B is - on block because how long the active animation for that move is and when they press buttons, I'm right there with dash 5A in the quickest time possible landing a CH. Just gotta watch out for IB and if I notice them trying to IB all my stuff I'll just vary it up by going 6B(B) delay > 22C and etc. I never used IAD cross over j.D > j.C since I feel like I'm leaving myself too vulnerable through the sequence but I do use 5C > 6C > j.236C > j.214C for that quick cross over hit if I'm feeling ballsy.
Errol Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 I still use 6B pressure reset all the time with great success. People think 6B is - on block because how long the active animation for that move is and when they press buttons, I'm right there with dash 5A in the quickest time possible landing a CH. I mean, this works because they hesitate. Which isn't bad, they hesitate because you might do 6bb and 22c, or maybe 5b (less so now). but if they commit to jabbing they'll CH you every time. It's not like jin's little jump in the air, or bang's D nails.. but it's good, just different. It's more like Jin's 2d now. press something and he does 5c, and you're hit, press something and he tries to run up, you've got him.
BatousaiJ Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) If you space it right, you don't even need to micro dash to get the 5A in there after 6B so if they were pressing buttons, I'd get a CH. If I have to dash, it usually means they were barrier guarding, which takes them longer to recover from, doesn't it? Or so it was previously, not sure anymore. But like you pointed out, they will hesitate anyway because they know the 6B(B) > 22C paths that are available to me. You can't be scared of pressing buttons because of gaps thinking they're always mashing or going to DP your efforts. You must instead make them afraid of your options and know exact what to do when they start trying to shut some of them down and punish them harshly for it. Lately, I've been doing a lot of baits against people who love to mash DP during small gaps in my offense and after a few 6CC > Mugen combos, you can be sure they stopped doing that. Oh and I 2C that little jin jump poke reset all the time. It's nice because it works vs both his 6B and j.A > j.2C paths. Edited March 15, 2012 by BatousaiJ
Rhiya Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) I've also grown to dislike followup pressure from 6B because of what guys have been saying earlier about being poked out of. I guess 6B > 22C is good for keeping your opponent honest in blocking, and 5CC > 6B works against mashers, but as a pressure tool I personally don't think it's that good. It's the only normal you can safely reset from. Charge cancel is more - than 6B, so I don't see why you'd think it's better. Maybe practice using advance input to dash out of 6B? If you input dash within 5f of the animation ending, it'll come straight out of the normal and you can 5a or 2a with no time spent on the dash you used to cover distance if it's a shorter dash. Edited March 15, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos
Airk Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 If you space it right, you don't even need to micro dash to get the 5A in there after 6B so if they were pressing buttons, I'd get a CH. Unless you're up against a character with a 5 frame 5A, in which case you're even and you trade. If I have to dash, it usually means they were barrier guarding, which takes them longer to recover from, doesn't it? Or so it was previously, not sure anymore. It's only 1 frame though, so you'd have to be pretty on-point with your micro dash. But like you pointed out, they will hesitate anyway because they know the 6B(B) > 22C paths that are available to me. You can't be scared of pressing buttons because of gaps thinking they're always mashing or going to DP your efforts. You must instead make them afraid of your options and know exact what to do when they start trying to shut some of them down and punish them harshly for it. Right, but it's still not really in your favor; Their rewards for guessing right are generally better than yours because of the disadvantage that 6BB/22C leaves you with. So you have to be markedly better at mindgames than they do.
Rhiya Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Unless you're up against a character with a 5 frame 5A, in which case you're even and you trade. I feel like pointing out that no sane person mashes with 5A because it requires you to stop holding downback
pktazn Posted March 15, 2012 Author Posted March 15, 2012 Even if it's not really in your favor, it's still better than having nothing at all and you're still rewarded even if it's less compared to your opponent but I'm sure we're used to this by now.
Airk Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 I feel like pointing out that no sane person mashes with 5A because it requires you to stop holding downback Ergh. Good point. Not thinking. Maybe practice using advance input to dash out of 6B? Pretty sure advance input only applies to buttons and therefore can't be used for dashes.
Rhiya Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Pretty sure advance input only applies to buttons and therefore can't be used for dashes. It's how Ragna 22C>dash 5A links work. http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Movement_%28BBCSE%29 It's right there.
Errol Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Hmm. is there really no dash frames or anything that you have to cancel out of? figured it would take at least a frame or something?
Rhiya Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Hmm. is there really no dash frames or anything that you have to cancel out of? figured it would take at least a frame or something? Nope. Ragna 22C>dash 5A wouldn't have worked in CS2 if there were (22C was +5, 5A has 5f startup)
Airk Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 It's how Ragna 22C>dash 5A links work. http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Movement_%28BBCSE%29 It's right there. oh, cool! Thanks!
Errol Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Good to know... That does make a difference, I guess 6b resets should be safe to mashing at a pretty good range..
Rhiya Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Good to know... That does make a difference, I guess 6b resets should be safe to mashing at a pretty good range.. You can also not dash back in, and throw out a move with significant range and a smaller hurtbox. This catches people who try to mash your dash-in. I don't know if Tsubaki has any normals that qualify, though. 22X should probably work, but it doesn't have good options on block.
Errol Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 5b used to be pretty good, but it could be low profiled and it's also not as good now.
Adelheid Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 I sure wish you could charge cancel 6A I'd love that You can special cancel it, why can't you drive cancel it How lame
Rhiya Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 I sure wish you could charge cancel 6A I'd love that You can special cancel it, why can't you drive cancel it How lame Why would you /want/ to CC 6A? You should be doing 5CC after to autoconfirm pretty much 100% of the time. It's real problem when you do blockstrings that rely on your opponent not getting hit to work
BatousaiJ Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Ergh. Good point. Not thinking. Good to know... That does make a difference, I guess 6b resets should be safe to mashing at a pretty good range.. Just watch out for people mashing DP between 5C© > 6B and 6B > 5A pressure. But you can just bait that easily by either charge canceling after 5C© and blocking or 6B > block as well. At that point, if you do bait their DP, the resulting reward will generally be pretty awesome. So as long as you bait it from time to time and punish accordingly, they'll be less likely to try it. Most punish for a DP would be 5C CH > 6CC stuff, the really long delay ones will be 6CC and the ones without CH state will be 5CC > stuff but it depends on the position, charge, meter and all that good stuff.
Airk Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 See? Playing the game has nothing to do with my ability to come up with stupid comments. :P
Kiba Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 It's the only normal you can safely reset from. Charge cancel is more - than 6B, so I don't see why you'd think it's better. Maybe practice using advance input to dash out of 6B? If you input dash within 5f of the animation ending, it'll come straight out of the normal and you can 5a or 2a with no time spent on the dash you used to cover distance if it's a shorter dash. Yea you're right, though I just don't like how 6B has very limited options afterwards. Advanced inputs do work for me though. It's what I usually do. See? Playing the game has nothing to do with my ability to come up with stupid comments. :P This is not a good look.
Adelheid Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Why would you /want/ to CC 6A? You should be doing 5CC after to autoconfirm pretty much 100% of the time. It's real problem when you do blockstrings that rely on your opponent not getting hit to work Um I want to charge cancel so I can end most of my combos in OTG 6A charge cancel to get back a decent amount of meter + get frame advantage I don't want to do it on block, lol, that wouldn't be remotely useful
Airk Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 This is not a good look. At least I own up. :P It actually sometimes does make sense to mash using 5A instead of 2A if your 5A is faster - namely, situations in which you know there will be a gap regardless of what move your opponent picks - but this particular situation (after 6B) is not one of them. So sorry about that. Now back to your regularly scheduled wrangling.
Rhiya Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Um I want to charge cancel so I can end most of my combos in OTG 6A charge cancel to get back a decent amount of meter + get frame advantage I don't want to do it on block, lol, that wouldn't be remotely useful Here's a hint: If you want to be at plus and have time to charge at the end of your combo, just end in 22X. At least I own up. :P It actually sometimes does make sense to mash using 5A instead of 2A if your 5A is faster - namely, situations in which you know there will be a gap regardless of what move your opponent picks - but this particular situation (after 6B) is not one of them. So sorry about that. Now back to your regularly scheduled wrangling. The point in using 2A is that it's a safety buffer. When you mash 2A, you're really mashing 1A -- which is basically an OS where you block if there's no gap and 2A if there is one. That doesn't work with 5A because lows are much more numerous than highs and also come out faster. Edited March 16, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos
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