[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[Wild Candy]

The fact that Rachel's IOH hits everyone is a very strong buff to her already extremely great Mix Ups. Rachel's looking really good, and it's getting me even more motivated to try and learn her before CP comes out.

(Although, I'm being a party pooper and waiting for the US release...)

[kirbster]

yay double post

kirbster, l watched a little of the monthly mashfest, and l found it interesting that you did ...bbl 214a dash 2b 5b (frog hits) 5cc instead of the standard. but what really surprised me was your use of jc djc bbl, which l didnt know worked on tager windless. l suppose the former combo is to make up for not being able to setup a pole in time after setting the frog?

I find that after midscreen BBL, 214a 236a dash 3c 214c *frog zaps* etc tends to whiff on some characters for some reason (they tech out before the frog hits them). Tager and Makoto are the main culprits of that. 2b 5b never fails to activate the frog so I'd rather do that than sometimes drop the combo and get blown up for it, especially against Tager.

And the windless BBL against Tager I actually figured out at UMAD randomly against DeadliestxXx, the Toronto Tager player lol...

[kodimt]

You must be doing 3C far too soon. I don't even know how they could tech before George hits any other way, unless he decides to sightsee instead.

Never can tell with that frog.

[Errol]

Just a question. Why do those instead of just 3c>236a>frog hits?

Also what are good typical inputs for going in with wind? stuff like IAD>3d>j.B? How do you guys do that stuff. or with j.C. I guess this takes some familiarity, for knowing when to press buttons and such, but maybe I can get a jump start on some of this from you guys.

[kodimt]

Jump 3D jC at the start of the round can catch people off guard, but it's not that great.

IAD 5D for fullscreen approaches. Other than that, it's just winding how you need and changing your jump arc with it.

[TD]

I find that after midscreen BBL, 214a 236a dash 3c 214c *frog zaps* etc tends to whiff on some characters for some reason (they tech out before the frog hits them). Tager and Makoto are the main culprits of that. 2b 5b never fails to activate the frog so I'd rather do that than sometimes drop the combo and get blown up for it, especially against Tager. And the windless BBL against Tager I actually figured out at UMAD randomly against DeadliestxXx, the Toronto Tager player lol...

interesting... nevertheless, l will begin to use that windless combo. l hope you don't mind.

[samthegreat]

And the windless BBL against Tager I actually figured out at UMAD randomly against DeadliestxXx, the Toronto Tager player lol...

UMAD? Haven't you been using this for a while...?

[kirbster]

Well I used to do it only off CH cat chair, but I hadn't realized you can do it after pretty much any air confirm on Tager.

[kro_]

Just a question. Why do those instead of just 3c>236a>frog hits?

Also what are good typical inputs for going in with wind? stuff like IAD>3d>j.B? How do you guys do that stuff. or with j.C. I guess this takes some familiarity, for knowing when to press buttons and such, but maybe I can get a jump start on some of this from you guys.

From a distance, going in covered with projectiles is the best approach if you can manage it. If you have a pumpkin or frog out on the field and some good distance (i.e. after midscreen combo ending in 5cc), try:

low j.236a (lobelia hits) 5d (pumpkin/frog hits) land 9j.214c (tk sword iris using residual wind)

This safely puts you right in their face at frame advantage. However, that 5d needs to throw a pumpkin or frog in their face while you approach to keep them locked down.

For no-setup rushdown, I find that going in with j.c is better than j.b since it has a giant hitbox, more blockstun, and is very rewarding on air CH. j.b is better if going for an overhead but people instinctively block high whenever they see wind anyway.

9 3d j.b/j.c is pretty simple and effective but only good at mid range.

7 3d 66 (at the peak of jump) j.b/j.c is good for catching people off guard at longer range.

7 5d 66 throw extends air throw range and is great for catching jumpers.

I try to avoid using these, but against some characters like Lambda and Arakune it is absolutely necessary.

[Zoular]

kirbster, l watched a little of the monthly mashfest, and l found it interesting that you did ...bbl 214a dash 2b 5b (frog hits) 5cc instead of the standard.

Do you mind linking this?

[Errol]

thanks a bunch kro. Some very helpful tricks.

[TD]

Do you mind linking this?

'ere mon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX6F2f2bq6o it's actually done a few times in here

[Dark Ranger88]

taken from the cp thread...

ja has a 12f startup.

5a has 11f blockstun so ja is -1, 0, or -3 depending on block, barrier, or ib respectively.

5b has 16f blockstun, so ja is +4, +5, and +1 respectively. completely safe.

Sorry to bring up old stuff here, but did you take into account the 4 frame jump startup that comes after you cancel 5a or 5b? I'm only saying this because, in my experience, you can 5a Rachel out of her instant overhead. If your numbers are right that should be impossible.

Still even if you take j.a + jump startup the overhead is 16 frames, which should still be air tight off 5b. Am I missing something here? Do you have to wait a little bit after jumping to make the IOH connect, or is the jump startup off canceled normals longer than a typical jump? ...Or have the Rachel's I've played just been doing it wrong?

lastly, rachel does not have to deal with many fuzzies, having a short crouching hitbox and all, she actually deals with less (there aren't many fuzzies in bb anyway). l think you're referring to how many rachel specific combos there are, having the fattest otg hurtbox in the game.

True. She leans back during her crouching hurtbox as well, making Makoto's 5b and 5c miss...a lot.

[tofurr]

16f of blockstun from a lv3 attack 5b - (4f jump start up + 8f start up of j.a) = +4 on normal block

Isn't that right?

Us Rachels must not be doing it right against you. =P

[samthegreat]

I'm only saying this because, in my experience, you can 5a Rachel out of her instant overhead. If your numbers are right that should be impossible.

You should play better Rachels/watch videos. It's completely safe from 5B, you can't even instant block DP it, let alone react to it.

Edited August 8, 2013 by samthegreat

[TD]

exactly what tofurr said. ja is actually 8 frames and then her jump startup is 4, making it 12f total.

5b ja is absolutely safe, the only thing that beats it if done correctly, is if the foe barriers 2 or more moves before ja, like a 2a 5b string.

5a can only be -4 max if done correctly, only dp's beat it, assuming the foe has the skills/luck to ib or dp her 5a in the first place,

if you are 5a'ing rachel out of any of her IOH... just wow.

[Dark Ranger88]

Oh lol thanks for explaining that got my frames mixed up.

Hmm...that's weird. I've played some pretty good Rachels (on XBL at least). Whenever I try to 5a (no instant block lol) I either counter her or get 2b'd.

Great...Now I realize that Rachel not only has zoning that can keep Makoto out easily and DP safe oki; she also has an air tight unreactable high/low mixup.

Why can't everyone but me just use Tsubaki...jk

[tofurr]

Maybe they're going for the naked j.2d into 2b and that's why you're able 5a them then?

[Dark Ranger88]

Maybe they're going for the naked j.2d into 2b and that's why you're able 5a them then?

Ohhhhh. So I'm catching them when they try to get fancy. That makes sense.

[Zoular]

'ere mon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX6F2f2bq6o it's actually done a few times in here

Thank you sir

[Yaaay]

Soooo I just returned from Japan where I hit up some aracades to play Blazblue and use my Rachel and Litchi. :D The game is great, I love it! Rachel is really solid too.

Her overhead is easier to do now that it hits everybody. j.a j.b 5b 5cc hits much better. I'm not sure if it's easier to do the microdash but I'm pretty sure the hitbox of 5cc has been changed in such a way to make it easier to do 5b 5cc after an j.a overhead.

I suck at her combos though. I'm not a execution monster at all, I actually drop them a lot, but even in training mode her combo's are tough... Following up after 236a is so difficult . I in the corner I could follow up 236a with 5b but that's about it... even 236a 6a was hard. And don't get me started on her mid-screen combos... Mid-screen I usually just did 6a 4b 3c pumpkin or something because I just sucked at everything else. You really have to take your time when learning Rachel's new combos (but it didn't take very long for me to learn Litchi's) and I didn't have enough time sadly.

In Extend I'm a frog oki lover, using it whenever I can, so I thought the frog nerf would have beaten Rachel hard, but it isn't nearly as bad as I though. It's not much of a noticeable nerf actually, there are still plenty of times where you can use frog. I did miss the lobelia counter combos though, but it just took some time to get used to it.

Her wind regeneration is a bit different... In Extend wind generations consists of two phases: in the first phse her wind generates really slowly and in the second phase, it suddenly recovers really quickly. In Chrono Phantasma, the recovery speed of her wind in the first phase has seen a speed up. It takes about 2.5-3 seconds to gain a wind bar back (same speed as CT?). After you have regained two wind bars, the second phase starts. Basically, this means that her first phase wind recovery has improved because it's much faster, but to balance it out, it takes much longer to get into the second phase of wind recovery. I personally felt pretty comfortable with her new wind recovery. Combined with her new combos, where she's grounded more often when combo'ing and which takes less wind than they do in Extend, I could usually possess at least one bar of wind.

I love B lotus, it's a very useful zoning tool and the hitbox is pretty decent too. I don't know much about A lotus though. Her old 6B jump cancel is great too .

Other than this, I don't have much more interesting stuff to say. Keep in mind that my skills are at best at a middle level, and I'm usually forced to play offline because there's no scene here. I could stand my own against most 6/7th dan players. Higher than that they would usually beat me.

That said, I love arcades. It's no wonder the Japanese are so good at fighting games. Besides the fact that they get the games earleir than we do, playing in an arcade is so much better than playing on a console. First of all, you're sitting in front of a huge screen, which in itself is a huge help. You keep getting to play solid players offline (without any lag yay) and there's just something about the atmosphere that makes you want to win more and battle harder. Definitely an interesting experience, I had a lot of fun :D

[TD]

Matsu is in excellent form, exceeding my expectations. He still has it.

[samthegreat]

Yeah pretty solid neutral but he obviously isn't aware of Rachel's hit confirms and conversion potential yet.

[TD]

not just yet, l agree, but as one of the better rachels he probably only needs a week of study, if that. or he could just watch that 10 minute cmv (or n-o himself), alot of things would become clearer l bet.

[gamester]

Want me to add Matsu to the Notable Japanese Rachel Player Rankings.