Eternal Blaze Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 by teleport you mean his dash? coz the forward dash has no invincibility last I checked.. Growler will probably be useful with Nu but it still looks like it'll be a very annoying matchup.. and she has 2 Sickles (nu and lambda version), the fast 1 hit sickle has always been unsafe, the other one though is mutli-hit >.>;
YukiBlue Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) It will just play like the Hakumen matchup except she will die quicker. Gustaf and BHS look like incredible tools, though. We can take the damage to get in. We can close the distance well, We got damage and we got Phalanx. I'm down. Edited December 31, 2012 by YukiBlue
psycofang2 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 by teleport you mean his dash? coz the forward dash has no invincibility last I checked.. Growler will probably be useful with Nu but it still looks like it'll be a very annoying matchup.. and she has 2 Sickles (nu and lambda version), the fast 1 hit sickle has always been unsafe, the other one though is mutli-hit >.>; youve mistaken something, i didnt clariify, his teleport will be good 2 to 1 character lengths from her, her axe wheel on whiff is horrible both of them, IB the set ups and if the auto pilot axe wheel you get a free run in. Phalanax cannon will be crazy good in this matchup since AZ can absorb projectiles and fire a few fast ones of his own back. the matchup theoretically wont be as bad as say, tao, valk, hazama, or litchi.
YukiBlue Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 What makes you think Litchi will be bad? Only problem I can think of is her Guard-Point.
psycofang2 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 theoretically mind you, her mix up and oki is still good, growler field is not a true DP and his lack or defensive options minus 6A will be tough to get around, her range, poking tools are far superier to yours, hakumen who has range and damage and reversals still has some issues with this woman. Azreal has barely any range at all so he automatically loses in poking fest, he'll have to be alot more careful since he doesnt have anything to TRULY be afraid of until after hes hit you, its getting in on her safely that'll be a bit of a problem.
LegendaryRath Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 So it'll be like Kanji vs any of the cast, got it. Seriously though, we're not scary against Litchi until after we get in. Easier said than done sometimes.
psycofang2 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 not really like kanji since azreal has some really good shit going for him, getting in will just be a test of patience and not getting irritated, that'll be the death of most starting Azraels. you'll be playing alot of matchups like hakumen, block, space, block mixup, get in and mixup. frame trap them into things.
psycofang2 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 i actually laughed, considering he has some oddball rekkas, and his normals link into themselves, he has a 5BB, senitinal dump is huge +on block for resetting pressure, super armor to bait and punish mashing he has alot to mix around with for hitting weaknesses, UB set ups, and all around mid to high damage with good corner carry. hes got alot you need to get the oppenent to respect you first, then its smooth sailing...kinda.
MetalMaelstrom Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 not really like kanji since azreal has some really good shit going for him, getting in will just be a test of patience and not getting irritated, that'll be the death of most starting Azraels. you'll be playing alot of matchups like hakumen, block, space, block mixup, get in and mixup. frame trap them into things. Except you don't get free meter for just sitting there T_T Also, you just started posting in this general, but, despite your typing ability, you're easily saying some of the smartest shit in here outside of zeth. And as far as Litchi vs Azrael goes, when he's not "in there" it's not necessarily a bad thing. The only caveat to that is that you have to be on-point when it comes to punishing approaches. No Litchi is going to play the spacing game with you forever, because that's not where she truly shines, especially not in this match-up because you can just bait whiffs by backdashing. She wants to knock you down and force you into the mix-up gauntlet. Again, backdash could be good in this situation but only if you don't do it predictably, because any good player will be looking for it. Even knowing staff Litchi has itsuu and DP and big normals, staff-less Litchi is always more dangerous, imo.
psycofang2 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 meter gain doesnt really do much for us, it just means we gain options and lose them upon use. hitting them is where it matters. i agree though i was mostly just stating on careful litchi players like LK whom ive fought, they will play the spacing game until you screw up or they do. its not an all the time thing but its still something to really be careful about. its not a bad thing if hes not in there, but its more dangerous vs litchi if you give her the advanage. staffless litchi is dangerous in the corner, where no one wants to be outside the corner shes pretty unsafe but i play hakumen so it'll be a different story for azrael possibly. Azraels short or at least his crouch blocking is on the so instant overheads wont work on him like it does hakumen, backdash looks like a strong tool as long as you dont over do it. it just comes down to how you want to play the fight in the end.
Skye Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 I think Azrael will have a disadvantageous match up against characters with generally fast attacks, like Makoto, Tao, Tsubaki, Bang and the like. Thoughts?
Ctrlaltwtf Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Thoughts? GOMI KUZU!! I see him having to learn to block on Oki a lot is all. From what I've seen Growler is hardly the scariest DP around
psycofang2 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 youve mistaken something, i didnt clariify, his teleport will be good 2 to 1 character lengths from her, her axe wheel on whiff is horrible both of them, IB the set ups and if the auto pilot axe wheel you get a free run in. Phalanax cannon will be crazy good in this matchup since AZ can absorb projectiles and fire a few fast ones of his own back. the matchup theoretically wont be as bad as say, tao, valk, hazama, or litchi. I think Azrael will have a disadvantageous match up against characters with generally fast attacks, like Makoto, Tao, Tsubaki, Bang and the like. Thoughts? i have stated this yes. He will have issues, i know he will.
MetalMaelstrom Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 I think Azrael will have a disadvantageous match up against characters with generally fast attacks, like Makoto, Tao, Tsubaki, Bang and the like. Thoughts? Disadvantage where? In neutral? Azrael's neutral game is really strong, imo, just because his attacks have a fuckton of priority, namely 6A, 6B, 5C, 2C, j.B, and j.2C. Buster and both guard-point moves are also really dangerous. If you mean in pressure, then that's to be determined. We'd need frame data before we could delve into the specifics of it. I honestly think high-mobility characters will mess him up. Valk, Haz, Tao, Bang, and Nu all seem like they'd give AZ a hard time.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Azrael has a lot of fair answers to most situations in other words: Wakeup reversal options: 44, Growler, Scud Punish AA options: 2c, 5b, Hornet Bunker (?) He has various options for any situation he's put in, unlike an absolute for certain situations. In the case of say Ragna he has 6a as his AA, and Inferno Divider as his reversal, same applies to Hakumen 6a/5d for his AA's and Yukikaze/Shippu. Each of Azrael's AA and Reversal options aren't going to win everytime and are situational. I'm not sure if you guys are understanding what I'm getting at
C0R Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Azrael has a lot of fair answers to most situations in other words: Wakeup reversal options: 44, Growler, Scud Punish AA options: 2c, 5b, Hornet Bunker (?) He has various options for any situation he's put in, unlike an absolute for certain situations. In the case of say Ragna he has 6a as his AA, and Inferno Divider as his reversal, same applies to Hakumen 6a/5d for his AA's and Yukikaze/Shippu. Each of Azrael's AA and Reversal options aren't going to win everytime and are situational. I'm not sure if you guys are understanding what I'm getting at Hakumen and Ragna's 5a is one of their cleanest and most reliable antiairs. Ragna also has access to ID as an antiair. I wouldn't say Hakumen's 5d is at all a reliable antiair.
psycofang2 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 I get what you are saying, i just dont see him having an easy way out of oki. hes gonna have to either guess or block properly and 2/5A,44, 66, or scud his way out. though meter reverals arent really...i just wouldnt recommend it. ive seen scud get punished a little to much. though again im looking at this from a haku perspective from how they share some similarities. i have to disagree about haku 5D though, its a counter yeah but its riskier then hitting 5A.
zeth07 Posted December 31, 2012 Author Posted December 31, 2012 It is already apparent to me at least, that Azrael will have a hard time with characters that are naturally better than him in general. It is not to say they will be "bad" match-ups, just match-ups that will be tough to deal with. Namely Hakumen, Jin, and Litchi. Then there are characters who are good at moving around the screen and avoiding situations entirely, like Hazama, Taokaka, Valkenhayn. Other characters like Carl, Relius, and Bang can utilize moves that let them get in and put on pressure without necessarily putting themselves in the line of fire (Litchi is like this too), Azrael on the other hand is VERY direct and has to throw out moves himself or get in with his "limited" movement. Then we have Tager who because of his backdash and invulnerability of his moves can blow up Azrael if he makes a mistake, particularly because he has to use links instead of gatlings. Not to mention the fact that Azrael has to get in and that is precisely what Tager wants as well, and unlike other characters Azrael has nothing to cover his approach. I haven't mentioned all the characters but you can more or less get my point. As I've said before, I think Azrael is a good character, but match-ups are probably what stops him from being "top tier" simply because other characters have more tools than he does. Big damage alone isn't always enough. That's my two cents.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Same, except tager has a harder time getting him magnetized due to his back dash. @COR, you still see what I was getting at, and using ID as an AA is rare.
LegendaryRath Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Keeping my opinions short, mainly because it's 2 in the morning. I think Azrael will have some trouble with certain characters, but mostly just minor annoyances. If you're not patient against characters with ridiculous pokes, then you're probably going to just get blown up. His neutral game is much stronger than other characters that would have the same set of problems. It's certainly going to be better than trying to play a grappler, and that's more than satisfactory for me.
MetalMaelstrom Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 You guys, I have an important question: Is Skye the Arakune mod the same Skye from r/a/dio? Also, I realize now after watching more videos, my list of Azrael's "high-priority" normals needs to be longer, i.e. all of his normals are honestly pretty stupid. Real question: do you think it would be a good idea during match-point round to do something like non-5A/2A starter > OD > scud > oh my god THE DAMAGE
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Then we have Tager who because of his backdash and invulnerability of his moves can blow up Azrael if he makes a mistake, particularly because he has to use links instead of gatlings. Not to mention the fact that Azrael has to get in and that is precisely what Tager wants as well, and unlike other characters Azrael has nothing to cover his approach. What does Azrael have for tk wakeup? I always see him end air combos with a power smack that puts a weakpoint on. Seems like it'd be a viable anti-360 tk wake-up for him. Obviously everything against Tager is a risk at close range but you gotta just nut up and try something or you'll never escape. Because Tager don't care
STenSatsu Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Meh, he has tools for pretty much every situation it seems so most matchups will likely be skill matchups at worst so maybe a 4.5-5.5 or 1 or 2 4-6 matchups. Was looking at win rate data against specific characters but the results are pretty varied. On a high note though, the 12th ranked Azrael has his name as Dogura and is 11th dan atm. Hoping he is THE Dogura.
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