[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[HiagoX]

6C > 214AC236D acts weird on Kagura's hitbox. I'd say delay the 214AC a bit for it to work correctly.

While we are at Kagura's topic, 5A fuzzy does work on him.

It acts weird on a couple of characters, yeah. Tao and Carl too, for example.

[Kenrou.Horo]

How's Makoto's english voice? Anyone got a video?

[Yazumatto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39ALDBU4bFM

Track one plus challenge mode combos.

Her track two has her saying things other than the move name like for most characters. Overall, she's the same Cindy Robinson Makoto you know and love.

I thought you had the game. o.O

[Kenrou.Horo]

Hmmm she still sounds pretty much the same :V So I'm guessing Hakumen got the biggest change to his voice?

Tracks? So in CP, when selecting voice language there's "English 1" and "English 2"?

And unfortunately not yet. I'm broke and I can't afford it TT^TT. Not sure if I should've gotten my stick first, or CP first xD Hopefully, I'd be proficient with stick by the time I get CP though :D

[Yazumatto]

Nah, the voice tracks are selected at random when you start a match.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Yazumatto

[Kenrou.Horo]

Oh. Has there always been two tracks? I've never noticed, aside from Platinum :V

[Yazumatto]

Yep. In EX you could find them in the gallery IIRC.

[SolAscension]

trying to hit those 6c's instead of 5cc is making my brain implode

[LeDom]

I'm having trouble pulling off J-DP mid-combo. Anyone here has tips on how to get it right? (I'm playing on a pad BTW)

[Yazumatto]

6321473C is the motion for a TK Corona

360C starting at 6 and ending at 3 works if you want to churn butter with Makoto (6321478963C)

trying to hit those 6c's instead of 5cc is making my brain implode

Yay for quitting EX for the 75% of its life. All I have to do is practice it mid-screen.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Yazumatto

[LeDom]

I'll give that a shot. Thanks in advance!

[Yazumatto]

So uhh, who do I not use the 214A-C 236D route on midscreen as far as consistency goes? I suppose Azrael isn't a good analog for combos.

It's hella tricky on Kokopuffs from what I've tried.

[HiagoX]

You can use it on anyone as long as you delay 214A~C a little bit, if I'm not mistaken.

If you universally delay it a bit you won't have to deal with that, actually.

[Yazumatto]

That seems to help. Still dropping it more often than not on Kagura but I'll work on it.

[OmnixTSC]

That seems to help. Still dropping it more often than not on Kagura but I'll work on it.

You'll get it the more you practice it. I've gotten to the point where I get it to work on every character consistently when netplay isn't a factor, so it shouldn't take you too long to grasp the timing across the board.

[StarGazer]

Long write up time, i will try to sum up the changes i felt from EX to CP

Neutral:

- The dash changes increased our dash acceleration at the cost of Initial dash speed while we still retain our high max dash speed (Tsubaki style dash). Charging in duo to that seems to be stronger, doing the dash in > IAD-back; back and forth to build up your speed in neutral seems to be working good for Matsu lol. Playing a solid mid-close range game is still strong despite the Initial dash nerf, true i whiffed a shit ton amount of 665B whiff punishes because im not used to the new Initial dash, but it's still there. Tip dashes moves you less now than the old one which can give you more control on your positioning, but overall its a nerf.

-I dont know why or how, but the new jump trajectory feels great. 665j.CC op

-New 6A is also amazing, you can anti air a lot of things now more comfortably

-214B sends you now further by default as if you were doing 66214B in BBEX, you can still add dash momentum to it to make it go even further. Also the ascending and descending angle is sharper now, less susceptible to be beaten by random 5B's lol. 214C remains unchanged.

-Cosmic Ray hitbox looks great, it beats a lot zoning attempts when its spaced right, good on block unless it was IB'ed, the pushback from it is also big especially with barrier, you can't follow it up sometimes. Low levels of this move are good for mid range though they have - adv which makes it ugh.

-3C no longer goes through projectiles

-If there is any hitbox buffs then i don't feel it yet

Offense:

-The reduced hitstop on block IS EPIC, 2A pressure and generally everything in your pressure is harder to react to now, i feel that this is such a great buff tho its global.

-Increased pushback + barrier + less initial dash speed = its harder to stay close in now, 2AAA 2B almost never works.

-5B is no longer jump-cancelable on block now, you can still use 214C to reset or even just jump normally, preferably after 2A or 2B.

-CT is a great addition to our dry mix up game, its even good on block so you can reset after it. You can create a great pressure game on your opponent with this if he was barrier happy.

-Throw range is almost none existing. Must. Hug. Also the recovery seems faster?

-214ACA is slower now, it can be mashed out of without IB?

-214ACD is strong against characters with no reversal as they have to eat its advantage or risk eating a frame trap.

-214AC recovery feels longer, the frame data says its the same tho. I guess ASW won't give us 214ACD pressure without taking 214ACA and 214AC > 2A from us.

-Also what with 214AA and 214AB? they feel a tad bit slower too.

-214AD as a pressure reset is possible, tho i prefer to just 214AA almost always

-ORB OKI IS BACK, you can pin all characters in corner really hard now, Azrael and Hakumen say no to that but you can always plant your orb a little bit away from them or just go for extra damage instead of oki enders.

Defense is pretty much the same

Makoto OD is really strong, it is short but once you activate it everything gets buffed dramatically. All your G drives becomes suitable for use on neutral (236AD x N), 214AD and 214ACD ensures lockdown which is ridiculous on offense, DP and Parry becomes comboable meterless, and anyhit will link into 2D to start a full combo. The anti burst mechanic is also useful since our combos are pretty easy to burst our of (not any more with 236D and air DP invu lol)

Overall CP Makoto is much stronger than EX (EX was a awful, tier lists that ranked her as C tier do make more sense now lol) and is actually way much easier to play now. Neutral is tad bit better now, it is still not Makoto best traits tho, she is either on par or suffering in it. Her offense is strong, like all rushdown characters she is always ready to convert anyhit into a solid momentum without the need for summons or resources, for a character of such class, i think she is very strong in there. The reward feels more consistent here. It can't spike to high numbers like before, but for most of time the average is really good, good confirms nets about 3000-3800, while A starters are limited to 2000 and below.

So far, bad match ups feels like this to me:

Tao > Mu, Litchi >>> Hazama > Hakumen >> Carl, Relius

Bullet: Match up seems even, both character are ok on neutral and go scary once they start their momentum.

Amane: I only fought decent Amane players, its not really hard to get on to him so far, could be our first good match up in 2 years? lol. Need more match up exp

Azrael: His neutral is actually pretty good, could be 4.5. Need more match up exp

Terumi: So far it looks fair to me

Kagura: Aside of his bad neutral, he is insanely strong at everything else. Sadly we can't make use of his slow neutral, feels about 4.5

Kokonoe: Neutral isn't that bad, RTSD, don't leave her a chance to breath. If she touches you it could be pretty much your gameover as you cant escape her UB.

I still don't like how they are changing Makoto. #ripmakoto2010-2011 #whensBBCP2

[Yazumatto]

When I see the words "Multi-Character Combo Video," I automatically assume that Makoto isn't in it because "interesting combos" and "Makoto" haven't been synonymous for a while now. I was bored as hell and I didn't want to watch a Kokopuffs video so I clicked on this:

http://youtu.be/gqeRXdHOhME

The two combos aren't in anyway practical but they are interesting. 5D(2) > RC > 3C connects for some reason and you can combo into Lander Blow Lv. 3 if you connect with a 5D Fatal lol.

Damn, I'm bored.

[M19Kamikaze]

Not sure if this was asked before, but what are some good blockstrings to do?

[excelence]

About reduced hit stop can work double edged... just got my copy yesterday and got problem with hit confirming my combos & buffering input

[HiagoX]

About reduced hit stop can work double edged... just got my copy yesterday and got problem with hit confirming my combos & buffering input

That's a problem on your end. Hit confirming didn't change at all to me.

[Angry Guy of DE]

I spent some time in training mode trying to figure out what to do against Azrael strings. Then I got annoyed and ran through all 30 of her challenges.

After doing challenge 30 I got to wondering how useful her parry would be in the matchup and tried to test what strings could be parried.

It seemed that 5B > B followup can be parried.

Also 5B > 2C was parried as well.

Is it safe to assume that strings that use moves that are frame traps and don't hit low are able to be parried? I was checking whether Jin's 6B could be parried and it seemed to be the case as well. Has anyone compiled what moves that are often gatled into can be parried on reaction?

[Dark Ranger88]

Not sure if this was asked before, but what are some good blockstrings to do?

Well I just do Stuff > Lunatic Upper > Lander Blow lvl 2 or 3

Lvl 3 Lander Blow is +5 on block for a sweet pressure reset that leaves you right in front of your opponent. After they block this you can run 2A into high/low/throw mixup on them. And if they block everything you can even go back into lvl3 Lander to start the cycle all over again.

The lvl2 version is a frame trap that you can combo after if you get a counter hit when you think your opponent is going to try and mash you out of lvl 3 Lander Blow.

You can also bait DPs by just blocking after Lunatic Upper.

Correct me if I'm wrong gaiz.

[Errol]

there's really no point to using lander blow in a block string.

[Angry Guy of DE]

I'm not sure about there being no point to ever use lander blow in a block string. I wouldn't use it heavily but if the opponent expects the A or B follow-up you can get a few good results:

1) Opponent doesn't react and you can get the frame advantage from Lv. 3 and maybe frame trap with 2B.

2) Opponent may press buttons too late and get hit by the move. Can you get combo off of CH?

I'll grant that overusage against opponents that will 2A or have a fast DP can get you into trouble, but then that where you use the A and B follow-ups and then vary the timing on those follow-ups. Staggered A follow-ups are great to use and unlike the B follow-up isn't as punishable (A follow-up is like -5 compared to B's -14 before considering IB right?)

Like most of Makoto's moves they can be good but don't overuse them as they tend to be punishable if the opponent predicts it and hits you during the startup of them. You don't always have to do a followup from lunatic upper (-4?) and Cosmic ray can be an option to close distance if they block a 6C that you used for footsies. Switch things up and try to smell out reversal DP's and bait it...Do you have those OD combos practiced yet?

[Celerity]

Why wouldn't you ever use Lander Blow? lv2 is a low-risk frame trap, lv3 is an amazing pressure reset if they respect lv2, which is usually what happens. I can understand that it doesn't impress too much on the risk/reward scale, but if you can condition your opponent with it, you're coming out way ahead. It's all about the mind games.

I suppose with godlike timing, they may be able to learn to OS against it, but I don't think that's realistic for most of us.

Eh, don't listen to me though. I only came back for the basketball loops.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Celerity